Zerg the new Terran?

TheDoc

So TLO, a pretty famous enough Terran player has jumped ship and is playing Zerg competitively, as shown at blizzcon.

Boxer has also hinted in a few interviews that he would like to change to Zerg as he feels Terran are getting nerfed heavily.

Personally I've played Terran since launch, and being new to the Starcraft universe I'm thinking of switching after 100 1v1 wins and start playing a new race.

Protoss seemed like an interesting enough race and I was considering with going with them, but Zerg look to be a bit harder, more frantic and fast paced, and more precise.

My thought process being that they might force me to become a better player and learn some more avdanced gameplay techniques?

Whats everyones thoughts on this?

Firstly about the Zerg > Terran complaint I'm reading alot about (tend to agree, from being my strongest matchup TvZ is probably now my weakest)

And experiencing with new races. It is annoying you cant enter like a "test" ladder to try out new races without runing your profile.

I'm afriad to change race mostly out of fear of my account going through the ground : /

I tend to play random a bit in team games but its not really teching me the race and how it plays at all : /

Grimebox

I'm going to switch when the new season comes along. I don't care so much about ruining my account, its just I don't wanna get beaten badly over and over till i get my head around the other race! I think your better off not caring about your win/loss ratio until you get very good. You learn more by making mistakes. I think I will switch to zerg because they really seem the most different to protoss (which i play)

Chaz

Tend to agree. That said Im in Bronze so cant really comment but I find that I struggle with Zerg having the ability to rush with a few lings or indeed sit and expand, I find them difficult to deal with.

Unless I scout them early and know what they are doing, its anyone's guess and with me desparately trying to survive, I dont like loosing probes via scouting ..... perhaps im too defensive of a player?

BKtje

I struggle against them too. I've finally gotten to grips with muta harrasment but banelings I have major problems with.

2x zerg in team games are also a nightmare to deal with.

I'll get to grips with them eventually though i guess!

TheDoc

The removal of reapers literally turned that game on its head for Terran players.

Zergs now literally know they have nothing to fear early pressure wise, it just ruined Terran for me tbh and its why I'm looking at other races after i get my 100 wins, they seem to be a scapegoat.

The_Keeper

Chaz wrote: »

Tend to agree. That said Im in Bronze so cant really comment but I find that I struggle with Zerg having the ability to rush with a few lings or indeed sit and expand, I find them difficult to deal with.

Unless I scout them early and know what they are doing, its anyone's guess and with me desparately trying to survive, I dont like loosing probes via scouting ..... perhaps im too defensive of a player?

When you play against Zerg you have to be constantly harassing them, forcing them to produce attacking units instead of drones. If you let Zerg macro up an economy, they are almost impossible to stop.

Chaz

The_Keeper wrote: »

When you play against Zerg you have to be constantly harassing them, forcing them to produce attacking units instead of drones. If you let Zerg macro up an economy, they are almost impossible to stop.

Thanks. As a Protoss player (ex Terran), what units / types should I use for harrassment?

Grimebox

Chaz wrote: »

Thanks. As a Protoss player (ex Terran), what units / types should I use for harrassment?

If you get one stargate and build 4 phoenix you can fly in and take out the queens. Then start hammering the drones till you run out of energy. Then fly around taking out overlords. Back to drones when energy is back. Seriously ****s up zerg. It also forces them to go hydra (or muta if theyre stupid)

Funky

As protoss even faking attacks can make them produce units rather than drones too. Make a ball of units and push out to the edge of his creep but don't commit fully. Gotta be pretty careful though and sometimes be on the ball with sentry forcefields to safely retreat. If speedlings catch and surround your army the zerg's gonna be able to drone up at a sick rate.

It's hard to successfully harass otherwise, though like Grime said stargate units can be pretty sweet. A phoenix and void ray is another nice combo to harass with, pick up the queen and kill it with the VR.

String

I am a Terran player in 1v1 ladder and have been since beta, but I have always found zerg much more fun to play since I have got used to them. Im going to stick with terran though and continue to play zerg in the team games. I wont be suprised if loads pro sc2 players do switch to zerg

Chaz

DrMorphine wrote: »

I am a Terran player in 1v1 ladder and have been since beta, but I have always found zerg much more fun to play since I have got used to them. Im going to stick with terran though and continue to play zerg in the team games. I wont be suprised if loads pro sc2 players do switch to zerg

I do like the idea of them but they are tough to play .... might try them in some games but got a lot to learn first me thinks ...

gearoidof

I go reapers despite the rush delay. Works well, though not as well as previously.

It probably works because it's so retarded that the zerg just assumes I wouldn't be stupid enough to try it.

nesf

Zerg is really tempting me at the moment, partially to open the possibility of going Random. Switching is good though, even if don't end up going with them having played a race makes playing against them so much easier.


Thing is, if I change race again I'll be delaying getting out of Bronze even longer. This is the only thing holding me back at the moment.

IRL_Sinister

People just need to learn to adapt, it's going to be years before this game is fully understood. Most of the units in-game aren't used at all.

If you want to switch, fine. But why is something the "new Terran"? I've never fully understood this since there hasn't been one Terran that has won a major Tournament since the games release. Blizzard balance the game around ladder, where 70% of the people have good "ladder" strats and all-in bo1 builds but when it comes to BO3s would find it extremely difficult.

Terran are going to get buffed in the future, so are all the other races. Blizzard aren't doing anything too dramatic, although the Roach buff was certainly uncalled for, and it's going to be many, many patches away before we can start seeing the balance that existed in BW.

(1700+ Diamond experience player).

gearoidof

Random is imba, means I have to assume it's a 6 pooling zerg...

And IRL_Sinister, why don't you just put "1700+ Diamond experience player" in your sig?...

Jonny7

IRL_Sinister wrote: »

People just need to learn to adapt, it's going to be years before this game is fully understood. Most of the units in-game aren't used at all.

If you want to switch, fine. But why is something the "new Terran"? I've never fully understood this since there hasn't been one Terran that has won a major Tournament since the games release. Blizzard balance the game around ladder, where 70% of the people have good "ladder" strats and all-in bo1 builds but when it comes to BO3s would find it extremely difficult.

Terran are going to get buffed in the future, so are all the other races. Blizzard aren't doing anything too dramatic, although the Roach buff was certainly uncalled for, and it's going to be many, many patches away before we can start seeing the balance that existed in BW.

(1700+ Diamond experience player).

I don't agree, depends how you class a 'major' tournament. There's a link on teamliquid to results (top 2) of every 'cash' tournament (Zotac, craft, etc, etc) since the game's release and it has been very Terran dominated. Something ridiculous like 60% or more if I am not mistaken. Since the patch things seem to have evened up more.

For the OP - try out Zerg definitely, also Protoss too. I play a mix of all 3 races and I can't recommend it enough.

For the comment on the 6 pool - don't fear it - can be dealt with, your probes/scv's are more powerful than you think

TheDoc

IRL_Sinister wrote: »

People just need to learn to adapt, it's going to be years before this game is fully understood. Most of the units in-game aren't used at all.

If you want to switch, fine. But why is something the "new Terran"? I've never fully understood this since there hasn't been one Terran that has won a major Tournament since the games release. Blizzard balance the game around ladder, where 70% of the people have good "ladder" strats and all-in bo1 builds but when it comes to BO3s would find it extremely difficult.

Terran are going to get buffed in the future, so are all the other races. Blizzard aren't doing anything too dramatic, although the Roach buff was certainly uncalled for, and it's going to be many, many patches away before we can start seeing the balance that existed in BW.

(1700+ Diamond experience player).

Terran was regarded by most as overpowered and heavily relying on a small comp of units to steamroll.

Much like zerglings with now roaches is steamrolling most things : /

Blizzard also releases stats every few weeks through their community tab and we all remember reading how TvP and TvZ was over 75% win average for Terran.

That stat will probably be around 60-65% for ZvT atleast anyway

Dustaz

it was NEVER that high doc and in fact it was 51-49 in favor of protoss in TvP.

TLO started out as zerg in sc2 and switched to terran, hes just switching back. This is exactly the same as all the spas that switched to terran when they were percieved as the fotm a few months ago.

It took sc1 about 6 years to acheive balance. ****s gonna change. Play what you like playing:)

Also, in the gsl this season? 3 terrans and 1 zerg in the semis.

TheDoc

I'll try dig it out when I get home, probably read it wrong.

Co-indcidently , was playing with Funky last night and we pretty much happily romped two zergs , granted it might be down to skill, we had very little problems with the Zergs we encountered over the 8 games.

*Rubs chin*

Jonny7

Dustaz wrote: »

it was NEVER that high doc and in fact it was 51-49 in favor of protoss in TvP.

TLO started out as zerg in sc2 and switched to terran, hes just switching back. This is exactly the same as all the spas that switched to terran when they were percieved as the fotm a few months ago.

It took sc1 about 6 years to acheive balance. ****s gonna change. Play what you like playing:)

Also, in the gsl this season? 3 terrans and 1 zerg in the semis.

Ah ah, gentlemen..

TLO started out as Random and did very well during the beta earning him a huge fan base for his creative and crazy strats as well as his ability to seemingly play just as well with any of the three races. Subsequently, close to the outset of the full game being released he admitted he couldn't handle protoss as well as the other two races.

He got the chance to go down to Korea with his team and decided to focus entirely on Terran as he considered them the strongest at the time. However, he is equally at home with Zerg and due to the recent patch has decided to switch back on that race for now.

His ability is extraordinary considering he didn't come from a strict sc1 backround. The Koreans have an overwhelming advantage in numbers (playerbase), skill, experience, sc1 backround, relentless training, yet the "foreigner" players like Idra, Loner, TLO are putting up a very good fight considering the massive odds they are up against.

TheDoc

I guess my point in my OP also referring to the other top Terran players who are moving to Zerg, they were in the thought process after first patch, and the second patch confirmed it.

Sure anyway like said above it will be a few years before we have perfect balance, the first few years for me is playing starcraft catchup.

IRL_Sinister

Jonny7 wrote: »

I don't agree, depends how you class a 'major' tournament. There's a link on teamliquid to results (top 2) of every 'cash' tournament (Zotac, craft, etc, etc) since the game's release and it has been very Terran dominated. Something ridiculous like 60% or more if I am not mistaken. Since the patch things seem to have evened up more.

For the OP - try out Zerg definitely, also Protoss too. I play a mix of all 3 races and I can't recommend it enough.

For the comment on the 6 pool - don't fear it - can be dealt with, your probes/scv's are more powerful than you think

MLG and GSL. Gz to Loner in Blizzcon last week.

Jonny7

Some nerd counted up all the wins of all tournaments since release and since each patch.

Total tournament wins by race

Terran - 94

Protoss - 39

Zerg - 18

Flipping heck, and that's just a first place tally. However since patch 1.2 protoss and zerg are gaining.

Links if you are interested
1.0 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=152533

1.1 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=160713

1.2 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=164129

Tenger

Jonny7 wrote: »

Some nerd counted up all the wins of all tournaments since release and since each patch.

We're all friends here, we wouldn't laugh if you confirm it was you Jonny7!!!!

nesf

Jonny7 wrote: »

Some nerd counted up all the wins of all tournaments since release and since each patch.

Total tournament wins by race

Terran - 94

Protoss - 39

Zerg - 18

Flipping heck, and that's just a first place tally. However since patch 1.2 protoss and zerg are gaining.

Links if you are interested
1.0 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=152533

1.1 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=160713

1.2 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=164129

It would be really interesting to see how this evolved over time due to patches and compare beta to release.

Cuddlesworth

Useless unless compared to the ratio of players per race. This is why I hate stats.


EG:If 15% of players play Zerg but 25% of tournaments are zerg wins then Zerg are more likley to win.

Jonny7

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

Useless unless compared to the ratio of players per race. This is why I hate stats.


EG:If 15% of players play Zerg but 25% of tournaments are zerg wins then Zerg are more likley to win.

Took me ages to find that, I've seen all the monthly ratios too divided into top200 per region and 'everyone'.. damned if I am gonna put them together, I'm sure someone already has though.

I'm gonna take a risk and say the game feels more balanced now than it ever has - although the meta game is still developing..

Cuddlesworth

Jonny7 wrote: »

I'm gonna take a risk and say the game feels more balanced now than it ever has - although the meta game is still developing..

Day9 is that you?

RoyalMarine

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

Day9 is that you?

if that was day9, i would ban him. would love to hear his rant about it in a weekly update.

Jonny7

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

Day9 is that you?

Sweet god I didn't realise

This is what happens when you watch more sc2 than you play..