Police injured during violent clashes at illegal rave in London

jonnny68

Violent clashes:rolleyes: i expected more from the Guardian to be honest, ive heard from someone who was in the vicinity of this Rave and by all accounts there were no "violent clashes" at all just heavy handed police tactics who should be out catching real criminals instead of harassing people having a good time harming no one.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/oct/31/police-hurt-halloween-rave-london

g5fd6ow0hseima

At least the the police let the rave keep going. It would have been ridiculous if the police had decided to storm it and confiscate the equipment. Actually, its a wonder that they didnt.

Premier

Finley Glamorous Odometer wrote: »

At least the the police let the rave keep going. It would have been ridiculous if the police had decided to storm it and confiscate the equipment. Actually, its a wonder that they didnt.

thought these were a thing of the past

jonnny68

satpaul wrote: »

thought these were a thing of the past

Unfortunately not mate it's not just as widespread as it used to be, the cops know they are fighting a losing battle and should channel their resources into fighting real crime (or is that too much like hard work for them:rolleyes:)

It's great to see a resurgence of illegal warehouse Raves spring up everywhere and long may it continue.

electrogrimey

One officer said: "We're hoping people will get tired and go home."

:pac:

Completely contradictory article...Disturbance at 11pm, but everyone coming out of the rave shaking hands with the guards etc. Seems like the blokes throwing stuff at the guards had nothing to do with the rave. What raves start at 11pm?

I heard a different story from a mate in London, that the guards turn up at a huge rave in an 11 story building, see that there's a nice atmosphere, and stick around to make sure nothing went nasty, and nothing did. I'm tempted not to believe the Guardian.

milltown

That sounds more believable alright.
Why would they call in the riot squad and then wait around for "people to get tired and go home"?

Android 666

I imagine the police received nasal injuries from the smell of the crusties and nothing more. They were waiting for them to get tired and go home by themselves because lets face it would you want to manhandle a sweaty, smelly dread? You'd be washing your hands for weeks…

Is mise le key

It still really puzzles me to this day why the poilce have such a horn on to stop people from simply partying together

I mean all over all cities & towns people drink, dance, laugh & go on to partys in peoples houses all the time, its in human nature to gather together in groups & celebrate with music (& if you partake) substances of your choice alcohol included.

Why spend so much time trying to stop people gathering together for a good time, Really i dont get the mind set behind it when there are dangerous violent crimes being comitted all the time.

Im sure there was far more harmful & violent instances happening in london that night that deserved police attention over a big party.

jtsuited

I would be willing to bet my left nut on what happened...

Bit of a warehouse thingy going on. Police show up, as is their duty if there's a large gathering of people, to check it out. A couple of gobsh1tes start acting the maggot when they see the blue flashing lights, and start becoming confrontational. Police are given an excuse to use force on the group after one of them gets hurt.
They're happy enough to let the event continue as they don't think it causes any harm to anyone, but hang around just to be sure. Everyone bar a few goes home happy.

I've been in enough argy bargy with police (what in my idealistic anarchist youth) and the one thing you learn is that it is merely their job to enforce the law. If you confront them, they have every right to enforce the law. This story is a case in point. The people who decided to be confrontational, got a hiding (and a police baton is not something you ever want to be on the end of). The ones who didn't were allowed to continue doing what they wanted to do.

Unfortunately in this country, things are different - if a cop tells you to do anything and you don't do it, you are breaking the law. So therefore you have to play real nice because you're not going to win no matter what. It is an unfair situation of course, but the only change will come about in criminal legislation reform, not on the frontline when you're spitting at guys who are armed to the eyeballs and have big bloody sticks for hitting you with.

Also, as far as the 'they should be out catching real criminals', that's not the definitive duty of the police. First and foremost, it is their job to protect the peace. Now obviously that involves catching gun toting gangsters, but it also means ensuring public safety when large numbers gather whether that be at a football match, a Sunday fete, or an unlicensed music event.

cursai

...it was an ILLEGAL rave. Probably no alcohol licence, insurance, safety procedures. We can't all just go around organising nightclubs wherever we want!

jtsuited

Is mise le key wrote: »

It still really puzzles me to this day why the poilce have such a horn on to stop people from simply partying together

I mean all over all cities & towns people drink, dance, laugh & go on to partys in peoples houses all the time, its in human nature to gather together in groups & celebrate with music (& if you partake) substances of your choice alcohol included.

Why spend so much time trying to stop people gathering together for a good time, Really i dont get the mind set behind it when there are dangerous violent crimes being comitted all the time.

Im sure there was far more harmful & violent instances happening in london that night that deserved police attention over a big party.

Well it's simple really......the recreational gathering of a large amount of people is regulated in this part of the world. Mainly through licensing. If people ignore the licensing structure, they are acting outside the remit of the law.
It's abused in the interests of big business, what with SuperPubs getting ridiculously lenient licensing options despite the fact that they cause all sorts of social problems, but such is the nature of any legal system.

jtsuited

Oh and btw, the best people to ask about how to get around the law regarding illegal gatherings, are the police themselves.

Look at all the card clubs in Dublin. Those places are an absolute pile of legal loopholes being exploited and nobody cares because they don't contravene the law.

In reality, laws exist and certain agencies HAVE TO enforce them, no matter what. If you have a problem with a law, do not take it up with the dude who is merely carrying out his duty. It's like complaining about the price of a Big Mac to the girl at the counter.

Android 666

Is mise le key wrote: »

Im sure there was far more harmful & violent instances happening in london that night that deserved police attention over a big party.

But how were they to know that it wasn't going to get ugly? What if they left it and a riot kicked of? I know its probably not likely but its still not outside the realms of possibility. I think jt's take on it would be the most accurate and the police would have to ensure the wellbeing of the people in there. I'd say after dealing with a couple of dildos mouthing off and throwing **** at them, the cops figured it was better to let the event go ahead and stayed around to make sure everyone was okay. Can't see there being to much of a problem with that really, do you?

Android 666

jtsuited wrote: »

It's like complaining about the price of a Big Mac to the girl at the counter.

You don't do this? I was once so incensed that I mushed the girl's face in the burger after screaming at her for a good fifteen minutes. I'm banned from that outlet and I think my face has been circulated to many other stores but I think I proved my point thank you very much!

joker77

jtsuited wrote: »

Oh and btw, the best people to ask about how to get around the law regarding illegal gatherings, are the police themselves.

Look at all the card clubs in Dublin. Those places are an absolute pile of legal loopholes being exploited and nobody cares because they don't contravene the law.

In reality, laws exist and certain agencies HAVE TO enforce them, no matter what. If you have a problem with a law, do not take it up with the dude who is merely carrying out his duty. It's like complaining about the price of a Big Mac to the girl at the counter.

Nope, have to pull you up on the one - certain agencies don't HAVE TO. They choose what they will enforce and what they won't. Case in point relating to this debate is Copperface Jacks.
There has to be an appetite from the Gardai to enforce something, they can pick and choose if they want to.

Is mise le key

jtsuited

joker77 wrote: »

Nope, have to pull you up on the one - certain agencies don't HAVE TO. They choose what they will enforce and what they won't. Case in point relating to this debate is Copperface Jacks.
There has to be an appetite from the Gardai to enforce something, they can pick and choose if they want to.

I'm fairly sure the Copperface Jacks situation is just plain old corruption.

Android 666

Why what's the story with Copperface Jacks?

jtsuited

Android 666 wrote: »

Why what's the story with Copperface Jacks?

From what I've heard, there's a nod and a wink given about closing times and so Coppers stays open a good while longer.

joker77

jtsuited wrote: »

I'm fairly sure the Copperface Jacks situation is just plain old corruption.

Maybe so, but I think the point stands that just because a law is in place doesn't mean that the Police are going to enforce it in all situations.

BaZmO*

cursai wrote: »

...it was an ILLEGAL rave. Probably no alcohol licence, insurance, safety procedures. We can't all just go around organising nightclubs wherever we want!

Isn't that the main issue though?

I always wonder about these Illegal Raves and the attitudes towards them. Would the attitude be so lenient if another Stardust happened? I know it’s worst case scenario, but look at the Love Parade recently, and that was a Rave that was Legal.

Now don't get me wrong, I’ve been at enough of them to sound hypocritical, but I know from experience that safety isn’t exactly high on the list of priorities of the organisers.

I also know that the main reason that the police break them up is not the safety issue. I’d imagine if more to do with lack of a license and possible public order issues.

Is mise le key

BaZmO* wrote: »

Now don't get me wrong, I’ve been at enough of them to sound hypocritical, but I know from experience that safety isn’t exactly high on the list of priorities of the organisers.

.

Ahh yes, i remember well, just so they would have to force people to have to buy drinks from the bar, the heads running the ASYLUM would turn the water off in the whole place so you couldnt get a mouthful of water from the taps. Not that i would have put my mouth near the taps in the jax of the ASYLUM but you would go in to throw water over your head to cool off a little.

BaZmO*

Is mise le key wrote: »

Ahh yes, i remember well, just so they would have to force people to have to buy drinks from the bar, the heads running the ASYLUM would turn the water off in the whole place so you couldnt get a mouthful of water from the taps. Not that i would have put my mouth near the taps in the jax of the ASYLUM but you would go in to throw water over your head to cool off a little.

Well there ya go. That's what used to happen at a Legal club. They used to do that in the Olympic too.

NotInventedHere

Is mise le key wrote: »

I can just smell the crustiness wafting from that picture.

Scambuster

His massive crusty legs bear no relation to the rest of him.