Ireland to host the 2023 Rugby World Cup

bamboozling

I was looking on Wikipedia about the upcoming World Cup and it got me thinking why not go for it in Ireland. It would be a real coup and a great status for the country.

If New Zealand with a relatively similar population and land mass can host it why can't we. I mean the infrastructure is all their finally, witness the M1, M6, M7 even the likes of the Shannon bridge which would aid travelling times immeasurably. It would take teams a mere 2.5 to 3 hours to travel from Dublin to Limerick and teams and supporters can easily fly to any part of the country with airports in Dublin, Shannon, Cork and Belfast.

This would have to be an all of Ireland thing and it is apparent immediately that Irish rugby does not have enough stadiums to host the Rugby World Cup. It is with the help of the GAA that this pipe dream could become a reality. The GAA wouldn't have to alter too many things as the World cp runs September to end if October so the GAA would merely have to start the inter county season 3 or 4 weeks earlier to avoid clashing with the World Cup. But why would they lend their stadiums towards the Rugby World Cup? Well what I would propose is that the stadiums used would be refurbished by the government, IRFU and whoever the organisers are. I know it's a bit idealistic but surely obstacles like these could be over turned for the good of the nation and the stature such a tournament brings.

I would propose the following stadiums in the following locations bearing in mind at least 10 stadiums are usually used.

RDS in Dublin 20,000
Aviva in Dublin 50,000
Croke Park in Dublin 82,000
Thomond Park in Limerick 26,000
Musgrave Park in Cork 18,000 with redevelopment on the way see no reason why that couldn't be upwards of 25,000 if desired.
Ravenhill in Belfast 12,000 currently but with redevelopment ongoing see no reason why that couldn't reach 20,000.
Windsor Park in Belfast 20,000 currently could be more. Would need help from IFA but can't see why this wouldn't be overcome.
Semple Stadium in Thurles at 53,000 would be reduced slightly with temporary seating.
McHale Park in Castlebar 42,000 again less with temporary seating.
Pearce stadium in Galway 34,000.
Páirci Úi Caoimh in Cork 60,000 with a planned expansion in the pipeline no reason why organisers couldn't contribute to sway GAA.

Well that's 11 stadiums there should be enough to comfortably host the competition. All the stadiums are in cities or in towns very near major infrastructure and all the stadiums are currently in use. I know this appears very unrealistic but I and I'm sure many others would love to see it happen and it would aid Ireland's economy immeasurably. Another plus is that it wouldn't leave white elephant stadiums like we have in South Africa. This would be a great opportunity and realistically a race with few contenders and one which we should win. I'd love to see it happen and with everyone pulling together I believe it could happen.

What are ye're views on it. Will it happen? Could it happen? I await my arguments being ripped to shreds just don't get personal.

Teferi

bamboozling wrote: »

RDS in Dublin 20,000
Aviva in Dublin 50,000
Croke Park in Dublin 82,000
Thomond Park in Limerick 26,000
Musgrave Park in Cork 18,000 with redevelopment on the way see no reason why that couldn't be upwards of 25,000 if desired.
Ravenhill in Belfast 12,000 currently but with redevelopment ongoing see no reason why that couldn't reach 20,000.
Windsor Park in Belfast 20,000 currently could be more. Would need help from IFA but can't see why this wouldn't be overcome.
Semple Stadium in Thurles at 53,000 would be reduced slightly with temporary seating.
McHale Park in Castlebar 42,000 again less with temporary seating.
Pearce stadium in Galway 34,000.
Páirci Úi Caoimh in Cork 60,000 with a planned expansion in the pipeline no reason why organisers couldn't contribute to sway GAA.

I never thought that Ireland had enough stadiums...You have put me wrong

I don't think Ireland would be able to host it solo, I think more realistically it would be an Irish/Scottish(or Welsh or England) split type thing.

bamboozling

Teferi wrote: »

I never thought that Ireland had enough stadiums...You have put me wrong

I don't think Ireland would be able to host it solo, I think more realistically it would be an Irish/Scottish(or Welsh or England) split type thing.

Ireland has a pile of big stadiums but they're all owned by the GAA! If there was a GAA world cup!

I don't think Ireland and Scotland would be ideal I'd prefer Ireland/Wales if it came to that. If GAA wouldn't play ball i'd say;
RDS, Aviva, Ravenhill, Thomond, Musgrave, Windsor Park if neccessary with
Parc Y Scarlets, Liberty Stadim, Millenium, Cardiff City stadium, Racecourse in Wrexham or Carrdiff Arms although 3 Cardiff stadiums would be too much.

Definitely something for the IRFU and the government to have a think about.

wonton

I like the idea of it being in a non traditional rugby playing country like the way the 2019 is in japan.

I would like to see it in the usa, hosting the soccer world cup there done wonders for the sport.

toomevara

Love to see Italy get it...any excuse to go, plus a fantastic boost for the game there. Would love to see Ireland play in the San Siro....

delta_bravo

Would be a good idea but I don't know if the IRFU would go for it. They would need to go back to the GAA probably for use of stadia. The GAA has a great spread of big enough stadia around the country but I just dont think it would happen. The 2011 RWC is using 13 venues so the IRFU couldn't organise with the grounds they have. Also, Lansdowne would be too small for the final so it would have to be held in Croker. Heres a list of the biggest G.A.A. stadia in Ireland

1 Croke Park 82,300 Dublin
2 Semple Stadium 55,000 Thurles
3 Gaelic Grounds 50,000 Limerick
4 Páirc Uí Chaoimh 43,500 Cork
5 Fitzgerald S 43,000 Killarney
6 McHale Park 42,000 Castlebar
7 St. Tiernach's 36,000 Clones
8 Pearse Stadium 34,000 Galway
9 Casement Park 32,500 Belfast
10 Breffni Park 32,000 Cavan
11 Dr. Hyde Park 30,000 Roscommon
12 Cusack Park 28,000 Ennis
13 O'Moore Park 27,000 Portlaoise
=14 Páirc Tailteann 25,000 Navan
=14 Healy Park 25,000 Omagh
16 Nowlan Park 24,000 Kilkenny
17 Páirc an Cheiltigh 22,000 Derry
18 Dr. Cullen Park 21,000 Carlow
=19 O'Connor Park 20,000 Tullamore
=19 Wexford Park 20,000 Wexford
=19 Páirc Esler 20,000 Newry
=19 Brewster Park 20,000 Enniskillen
=19 Markievicz Park 20,000 Sligo

CatFromHue

the venues for next years are

whangarei: 20,000
auckland : eden park 60,000
north harbour 30,000
hamilton: 30,800
rotorua: 30,000
new plymouth: 25,000
napier: 16,000
palmerstownnorth / manawatu : 18,300
wellington : 40,000
nelson : 20,000
christchurch: 45,000
dunedin: 29,000
invercargil : 16,000

so thats 5x 20,000 or less
5x 20,000 to 30,800
3x 40,000+

we would need help from the gaa and to the best of my knowledge the gaa season is quiet enough from october to december.

if they came on board we maybe could hold it. i wouldnt be interested in sharing it with either wales or scotand. atmosphere wise its much better having in it one country.

the big question is were will the money come from?

our next few bugets are going to be very hard on us. we just cant afford it if you ask me.

thekiwis themselves expect to make a loss

Teferi

CatFromHue wrote: »

make a loss

:pac:




I agree though. There is no money for it unfortunately. Probably won't be either by 2023.

CIARAN_BOYLE

The GAA would want their palms greased big time. I doubt the IRFU would be willing to pay the 50M + the GAA would probably want in rent/contributions to expansions.

Its a pity though.

LeeroyJones

Right now, we could potentially compete with New Zealand's bid with

Croke Park
Lansdowne Road
Stadium Northern Ireland-currently being proposed for a 45,000ish stadium
Páirc Uí Chaoimh after redevelopment
Thomond Park
RDS
Ravenill
A new stadium perhaps in Galway would have to be built, perhaps a downgradable stadium for Connacht afterwards ala London Olympics

I know other bids have 10-12 stadiums but for a 20 team competition 8 stadiums would suffice surely!

However, England's bid for 2015 will raise the bar, as will Japan's tournement in 2019 with a number of sublime stadiums which we will never compete with. I really don't like the idea of sharing it with another nation-it dilutes the atmosphere in my opinion.

bamboozling

I think you should definitely add the upgraded Musgrave Park to that list that would be 9. Maybe add Thurles I mean there isn't a huge amount developement needed just install some bucket seating. That would be ideal as it would limit GAA stadium use to 2.

copacetic

I don't see how you can count GAA stadiums for an event that clashes directly with what would be 4 or 5 weekends of big championship games in Croker.

LeeroyJones

copacetic wrote: »

I don't see how you can count GAA stadiums for an event that clashes directly with what would be 4 or 5 weekends of big championship games in Croker.

RWC is generally mid-September - end of October. The Hurling All Ireland is he first Sunday of September, so there would only be one match overlapping which is the Football All Ireland. That could be worked around

PhatPiggins

Going by estimated inflation rates and ongoing IRFU delusion tickets prices for the pool games begin at €465

LeeroyJones

LeeroyJones wrote: »

RWC is generally mid-September - end of October. The Hurling All Ireland is he first Sunday of September, so there would only be one match overlapping which is the Football All Ireland. That could be worked around

Been enjoying this thread's cousin in GAA. As was pointed out over there the Camogie final and Ladies' Football Final are also on in September.

copacetic

LeeroyJones wrote: »

RWC is generally mid-September - end of October. The Hurling All Ireland is he first Sunday of September, so there would only be one match overlapping which is the Football All Ireland. That could be worked around

True, I had in my head it was september but the last one here was 3rd October onward so it's not an issue I guess. Should have remembered that since I was at a couple of games in 91!

Goodluck2me

Deleted User wrote: »

Been enjoying this thread's cousin in GAA. As was pointed out over there the Camogie final and Ladies' Football Final are also on in September.

Never heard of it...

LeeroyJones

Deleted User wrote: »

Been enjoying this thread's cousin in GAA. As was pointed out over there the Camogie final and Ladies' Football Final are also on in September.

True, but I have my opinions on that that are not rugby related so I thought not to mention them but as it has been brought up.... I believe the Camogie and Ladies Football finals shouldn't be in Croke Park, rather a venue that could generate a good atmosphere for the respective attendance. Of course there is the argument that Croke Park is the Holy Grail for all those involved, male and female, but I believe it would make for a better occasion in a smaller stadium. That's my 2 cents anyway,

Even with those finals taking place, it could be worked around anyway. The 2015 finals is going to include the Emirates, Old Trafford, Elland Road, St James' Park, Anfield, St Marys and the Ricoh... all of which will be used in for the Football League. Wasn't it last year that Ireland played France in the WC playoff in Croke Park and the next day hosted Australia in rugby with a turnover period of 14 hours or something

tolosenc

France 2007 used the Millenium and Murrayfield for a couple of games, so I wouldn't rule that out.

Croker, Aviva, Millenium & Murrayfield - all over 50,000.
Upgrades on Ravenhill, RDS and Thomond to 30,000.
Stadium NI will be 40,000+
Musgrave Park will be ~20,000
New stadium in Galway for Connacht, 15,000 (+ 10,000 temporary seats for the tournament)

Then look to the GAA for places in 2 of Derry, Waterford & Athlone.

ArmaniJeanss

I think any bid would make more sense if it didn't use Croke Pk at all therefore theres no interference with AllIrelands etc in September.

Croke Pk isn't particularly needed with Landsdowne and the RDS already in Dublin - remember the Rugby World Cup sees more bunched matches than say the soccer world cup with 80% of the matches being played Friday/Saturday/Sunday so 3 dublin stadia would be a bit much.

Use Parc ui Chaoimh and a Connaught GAA ground instead.

By the way 2023 is likely to go back to Africa, and 2027 will be NorthAmerica imo, so 2031 is probably the next European World Cup. Loads of countries will be bidding so a shared World Cup is the most likely with a joint Celtic nations bid just pipping Italys solo bid. (I'll bump this post on September 23rd 2031).

[Jackass]

I would love to see it go to Italy and also re Ireland bid, eff the GAA, they're impossilbe to deal with and the Irish people have paid for almost everything they have and as a "non-pro" sport they don't pay players but charge pro prices for jerseys, merchandising and tickets, and use the money on infrastructure, but as an all-ireland union, are very anti-irish when it comes to sharing. Many traditional GAA grounds coming from publicly owned ground in the first place.

I'd rather share the wealth with the Welsh union than give a cent to that crowd. The welsh grounds are better and more suited anyway (Croke Park is a terrible rugby stadium and we'd have to redevelop and vastly improve just about every other GAA ground to make it acceptable to host a generic, global sport.)

(obv I don't like the GAA and it's politics and the supporters of the sport. Most ignorant bunch you're likely to encounter - to make a contradictioray gross generalisation, but that's my experience and opinon on them.)

Flukey

[Jackass] wrote: »

(obv I don't like the GAA and it's politics and the supporters of the sport. Most ignorant bunch you're likely to encounter - to make a contradictioray gross generalisation, but that's my experience and opinon on them.)

Don't forget that a lot of those GAA supporters are the exact same people that go to rugby matches and soccer matches and to the Curragh etc. They, and I am one of them, are sports fans, not just GAA fans. So that great fella that you are sitting beside at a rugby match having great craic with and you think is the nicest fella you've met at a game may well be a part of the most ignorant bunch you are likely to encounter, on another day.:) So it depends on which day you base your opinion of them. For me, the GAA fans are the nicest people you'd ever meet. So are the rugby fans and the soccer fans and the horse-racing fans etc. Good sports fans are good sports fans. Amongst every bunch, you'll get the ignorant ones, but sports fans are generally good people. So I doubt you live up to your chosen nickname.

copacetic

Flukey wrote: »

Don't forget that a lot of those GAA supporters are the exact same people that go to rugby matches and soccer matches and to the Curragh etc. They, and I am one of them, are sports fans, not just GAA fans. So that great fella that you are sitting beside at a rugby match having great craic with and you think is the nicest fella you've met at a game may well be a part of the most ignorant bunch you are likely to encounter, on another day.:) So it depends on which day you base your opinion of them. For me, the GAA fans are the nicest people you'd ever meet. So are the rugby fans and the soccer fans and the horse-racing fans etc. Good sports fans are good sports fans. Amongst every bunch, you'll get the ignorant ones, but sports fans are generally good people. So I doubt you live up to your chosen nickname.

Agreed, I see plenty of the same people at Leinster games that I see at Croke park...

Flukey

You are right Copacetic. On my way to the International Rules match in Croke Park last night, I passed the RDS where lots of Leinster fans were going in. But for that match, a lot of them would have been in Croke Park. Another friend would have been with us, but for the fact that he was stewarding in Tolka Park last night. It is many of the same people that go to the different sports.

When Croke Park opened up, we had all the jokes about the prawn sandwich brigade not being able to find their way to Croke Park, when in fact many were to be found there just as often as they would be in Lansdowne Road. We may have a preference for one sport over another, but only a very closed mind looks at one and deliberately excludes all others. They are the ignorant ones.

We had a thread a while back on the GAA forum about unionists and the GAA, and of course many of them take a big interest, despite the preconceptions that people may have. It is the same with Rugby and GAA people. The overlap of fans between the two is of course huge. Even outside of that overlap, while some GAA fans might not take much interest in the All-Ireland league, they'll certainly watch the 6 Nations. Equally, while some Rugby fans may not pay any attention to the GAA club county championships, they'll watch the All-Ireland finals.

amacachi

Just out of interest, how exactly is NZ managing to make a loss on selling out a load of sporting events?

A shared bid by Wales/Scotland would make sense, adding Ireland in seems to just make things more awkward than they need to be.
Ireland on its own, I don't know, would like to see it but I can't imagine the co-operation being there.

JustinDee

amacachi wrote: »

Just out of interest, how exactly is NZ managing to make a loss on selling out a load of sporting events?

It isn't.
In none of these three different (and progressively lower each time) 'losses' Steve Tew mentioned loudly in the media, were certain elements such as TV rights share ever mentioned.

JustinDee

delta_bravo wrote: »

Would be a good idea but I don't know if the IRFU would go for it. They would need to go back to the GAA probably for use of stadia. The GAA has a great spread of big enough stadia around the country but I just dont think it would happen. The 2011 RWC is using 13 venues so the IRFU couldn't organise with the grounds they have. Also, Lansdowne would be too small for the final so it would have to be held in Croker. Heres a list of the biggest G.A.A. stadia in Ireland

1 Croke Park 82,300 Dublin
2 Semple Stadium 55,000 Thurles
3 Gaelic Grounds 50,000 Limerick
4 Páirc Uí Chaoimh 43,500 Cork
5 Fitzgerald S 43,000 Killarney
6 McHale Park 42,000 Castlebar
7 St. Tiernach's 36,000 Clones
8 Pearse Stadium 34,000 Galway
9 Casement Park 32,500 Belfast
10 Breffni Park 32,000 Cavan
11 Dr. Hyde Park 30,000 Roscommon
12 Cusack Park 28,000 Ennis
13 O'Moore Park 27,000 Portlaoise
=14 Páirc Tailteann 25,000 Navan
=14 Healy Park 25,000 Omagh
16 Nowlan Park 24,000 Kilkenny
17 Páirc an Cheiltigh 22,000 Derry
18 Dr. Cullen Park 21,000 Carlow
=19 O'Connor Park 20,000 Tullamore
=19 Wexford Park 20,000 Wexford
=19 Páirc Esler 20,000 Newry
=19 Brewster Park 20,000 Enniskillen
=19 Markievicz Park 20,000 Sligo

Ground hire fees alone would make it economically crippling.
Its not feasible.

Dali art

IMO i don't think the IRB would be keen to have 3venues in the one city as in Dublin. We'd need to spread it around the country some way. Possibly a new build somewhere.

Junior

Would we have training/hotel facilities in these locations to cater to International standards as well ?

bamboozling

Dali art wrote: »

IMO i don't think the IRB would be keen to have 3venues in the one city as in Dublin. We'd need to spread it around the country some way. Possibly a new build somewhere.

England 2015 have three in London, Wembley, Twickers and the Emirates. Three in Dublin should be fine. That's why in my idea I spread the 1 stadiums nationwide, 3 in Dublin, 2 in Cork, 2 in Belfast, 1 in Limerick, Galway, Castlebar and Thurles. That way no fan should be further than 2 hours away from a match unless you are from Inishowen in Donegal.

I think Ireland would have facilites. You have top quality hotlels all over the country Breaffy in Mayo, Carlton and many other exceptional hotels for teams and mediocre for fans. Let's not forget there are plenty of Olympic teams using Ireland as a base for London 2012.

danthefan

The IRB charge the host country something like €120,000,000 to host the tournament, will probably be more by 2023.

Upgrading all these stadiums would cost a serious wedge.

Renting GAA stadiums, which could potentially see little or no spectators for games like Russia v Japan, would cost a fair bit.

Not sure how the IRFU could afford it.

its_phil

tolosenc wrote: »

New stadium in Galway for Connacht, 15,000 (+ 10,000 temporary seats for the tournament).

If they keep us around that long....;)

ted1

England 2015 have three in London, Wembley, Twickers and the Emirates. Three in Dublin should be fine

haha london has a population of just over 7.5 million which is about 5 times that of Dublin and nearly twice that of Ireland. don't think you can compare the two.


They've 2.5 million people per stadium, we've .5 million people per stadium.

danthefan

A 15k stadium for Connacht is an absurd idea at the moment.

Khan77

I don't think the idea is feasible in Ireland alone. New Zealand were desperate to get 2011 because the scale of the event is advancing so much every 4 years it is unlikely they would ever be able to host it on their own again. They only have the Auckland Stadium over 40000 capacity. In comparison the England 2015 has 4 stadiums of 75000+. The event is such a moneyspinner for the IRB that with 4 groups of 5 teams, realistically every group needs at least one 40000+ stadium. I think a celtic bid with Ireland, Wales and Scotland is the way forward. You would assume Lansdowne Rd, Millenium Stadium, Murrayfield and one other would be required,maybe a Northern Ireland stadium if it is finally on the go by then. After that would be second tier stadia like Thomond/RDS/Redeveloped Ravenhill/Liberty Stadium. Then the likes of the Showgrounds/Musgrave Park/Rodney Parade and all. Ground capacity would push the final towards Wales unless the North Stand @ Lansdowne can get an extra 10000 seats minimum. Anyhow 2023 is the earliest it can come here and I think South Africa/North America would be looking very hard to host it after Japan.

outwest

danthefan wrote: »

A 15k stadium for Connacht is an absurd idea at the moment.

at the this moment of time the taught of ireland hosting a world cup is absurd. 15 k stadium in galway would be nice but only if we could get 10000 plus in it.

Flukey

Has this thread been kicked to touch, or is the idea still a runner? The corresponding thread is still going on the GAA forum.

Noffles

Ireland and rugby world cup... piss up and brewery are words that spring to mind...

blackstairsboy

Its all very well having the stadiums to host the world cup but who is going to fill those seats? Ireland with a population of 4 million and not a traditional rugby nation is too small. At the weekend the aviva stadium seating a meagre 50000 could not be filled even though Ireland were playing the world champions. Although there would be a good few that will travel from England to matches I still cannot see stadiums being filled for all the matches.

tolosenc

blackstairsboy wrote: »

Its all very well having the stadiums to host the world cup but who is going to fill those seats? Ireland with a population of 4 million and not a traditional rugby nation is too small. At the weekend the aviva stadium seating a meagre 50000 could not be filled even though Ireland were playing the world champions. Although there would be a good few that will travel from England to matches I still cannot see stadiums being filled for all the matches.

Eh, what?!

And the seating thing was nothing to do with lack of interest, rather the IRFU indirectly chose to have a half full stadium.

Crash

Your maths a bit wrong there. So a pool with 5 teams in it.

Team A plays B, C, D, E
Team B plays C, D, E
Team C plays D, E
Team D plays E

Thats all the games accounted for, 10 Games per group. 48 games in total.

blackstairsboy

Thanks Crash I wasn't bothered editing the whole thing so I just deleted it.:o I do still believe that Ireland on its own does not have the population to host a world cup. Joined with Wales it is a possibility so maybe we might see it at some point. Lets hope we will.

Paul Tait

Very interesting discussion. However, Argentina must host Rugby World Cup 2023. The Americas are the only region who never would have hosted come 2023, Argentina are the only semi finalist never to have hosted a Rugby World Cup and Argentina have sufficient stadiums and interest in the sport to hsot it very successfully.

I believe in this so strongly that I have created a site dedicated to making this coem true. Check it out and comment.

www.rugbyworldcup-argentina2023.blogspot.com

I think Ireland can indeed host a Rugby World Cup and should do so on its own. I am not Irish but do understand the GAA issue. Briefly, my thoughts are 10 stadiums. The RDS Stadium will not be used.

- Croke Park (final and openning match)
- Aviva Stadium
- Cork (possibly Páirc Uí Chaoimh)
- Tipperary (possibly Staid Semple)
- Limerick (Thomond Park)
- Killarney (possibly Staidiam Mhic Gearailt)
- Belfast (upgraded)
- Galway (new or upgraded venue but maybe Páirc an Phiarsaigh)
- Clones (possibly Páirc Thiarnaigh Naofa)
- Castlebar (possibly Páirc Mhic Éil)

Ireland need to make a bid that includes clearance from the GAA. If they can do this they cvan successfully host.

Italy should be the next European host. But Ireland could well fight it out with them to be the host. A joined bud is not the way forward. Should Wales look to do so then it should be a genuine 50% joined venture with either Scotland or Wales. I cannot see Wales producing 5 sufficient stadiums but can see Scotland doing so. Moreover, Wales have hosted games in RWC 1991, 1999, 2007 and will in 2015. Enough is enough.