Using Filters

PaulBrewer

Most people will use or have heard of using filters to 'clean up' the bottom end of recordings i.e. remove low end on sources that don't 'need' it.

Do the brothers ever apply the same thinking to the top end ? i.e. filter the top frequencies ?

Robin Ball

I frequently use filters for the top. I find that condenser mics sometimes have too much top for the digital medium. I am finding dynamics generally a really great fit to get a more muted top.

It is all down to personal taste as always though....

DamagedTrax

i have the softube tonelux tilt as the first plug in my mixing chain. lovely filters and the tilt is great for a touch of mild eq'ing without hacking the life out of the sound.

to dull down the highs a bit more i like to use a 15ips studer emulation in nebula (from the R2R library). lovely on guitars and rock vocals.

Paolo_M

New to all of this, more of a guitar guy player and only recording as a hobby so take this with a pinch of salt.

I almost always use a low pass or a shelf when recording over-driven/distorted guitars. This keeps fizz and some of the hiss at bay and lets cymbals do their thing.
I've found that there's not much useful musical information in the guitar sound after 7kHz, really junk hiss and fuzz.

It seems like (to me anyway) if you mike a speaker, straight at the centre then a lot of fizzy sounding junk rides on-top of the sound.
I like this mike position (with SM57) for heavier music as it captures a lot of grind and definition, but unfortunately it also seems to exaggerate the fizz.

This is probably old news to you guys, but figuring it out has helped me lot.

madtheory

I would treat guitar cabs in the same way. Gets rid of the "fighting the vocal and snare" problem. Also I wouldn't use a 57 any more. Pretty much any other mic is better IMO.

I wouldn't be filtering top off anything else though, better to change the mic. Failing that, a HF notch works better than a filter.

Paolo_M

madtheory wrote: »

I would treat guitar cabs in the same way. Gets rid of the "fighting the vocal and snare" problem. Also I wouldn't use a 57 any more. Pretty much any other mic is better IMO.

I wouldn't be filtering top off anything else though, better to change the mic. Failing that, a HF notch works better than a filter.

What mics have you used, what's worked well? For what kind of styles and speakers?

I've tried out a T.Bone 450 and a AKG D112.
The T.Bone was even fizzier and had no bite, and the AKG lacked any bite at all. I was kinda guessing that as it's intended for bass instruments.
The 57 seems to hump around 3.5kHz and I like it. It adds real clarity to Black Label Society/Lamb Of God style palm mute passages.
Guess it might sound harsh for other styles.
That's with a SLO style home brew and a V30 2 X 12

I found the D112 worked wonders for bedroom recording when mixed with the SM57.
I used the Friedman technique and then high and low passed. It gives the fullness to the sound that tends to be missing with low volume. Doesn't replace air moving but it's not a bad compromise.

madtheory

I think that is where the 57 has the bump alright, it's in the specs. It has more of a bump than a 58.

I like to use AKG C414 B-ULS, Audio Technica 4033, and lately that Thomann ribbon mic which is sweet. Have used a Coles 4038 a few times too. Almost always right against the grille and centre to the cone. Very often no eq.required. I tend to roll off the bass on the amp itself, those mics have a big proximity effect especially the ribbons. Gets whatever sound the amp is making, so not genre specific.

What's the Friedman technique?

Actually I'd spend most of the time working on the amp, guitar and pedals. Secret weapons are an old Westone guitar which is sweet, a Danelectro Pastrami, a Barcus Berry pre amp (or anything clean to overdrive an AC30 or old Marshalls) and a Boss CE-2, their second ever chorus pedal. Also important to have the cab firing at the guitarist's ears- so they can hear what the amp is actually doing!

ogy

What do you think about filtering out the top end of bass instruments like kick drum and bass guitar. Obviously not for a natural sound but in a dense rock mix getting rid of most of the top octave to ensure there's nothing getting in the way of the high end cymbal and vocal sounds.

PaulBrewer

ogy wrote: »

What do you think about filtering out the top end of bass instruments like kick drum and bass guitar. Obviously not for a natural sound but in a dense rock mix getting rid of most of the top octave to ensure there's nothing getting in the way of the high end cymbal and vocal sounds.

Depends on what's required - but I've read Chris Lord Alge regularly adds quite a bit of top (8k) to 'balance' the bass instrument against the rest of the track.

ogy

Depends on what's required - but I've read Chris Lord Alge regularly adds quite a bit of top (8k) to 'balance' the bass instrument against the rest of the track.

I would often add top to the bass guitar and kick drum to add string/plucking noise/click of the beater etc. But that could be anywhere from 6k to 10k and then I would often low pass the track below 10 or 12k to ensure theres nothing in that track that would get in the way of the air in vocals/overheads/ambient mics etc.

GTE

I have tended to use them more on both ends of the spectrum over the past few months.

My digital recordings and mixes can seem so harsh until I read somewhere, maybe sound on sound, that Digi sound does contain a lot more high end then analogue for various reasons.

I by no means subscribe to making everything sound analogue but doing a slight bit of high end filtering can help on certain tracks.

madtheory

A standard analogue 24 track can go to 20kHz. Filtering will not make it sound analogue, just dull. Digital sounds brighter because transients are preserved. It's more accurate in the time domain than analogue. So what needs to be done is careful compression, and (mostly) 3rd order harmonic distortion. Or just use Dave Hill's HEAT. Definitely more compression required in digital to get the classic rock sound.

It could also be the case that your recording too hot, with 0VU= 0dBFS. That will make the sound harsh because you're clipping the analogue side. 0VU= -18dBFS.

ogy wrote: »

What do you think about filtering out the top end of bass instruments like kick drum and bass guitar.

Not much! It's upside down thinking again. It's bass frequencies that use up energy. I don't think I've ever heard a kick drum that was too bright. Happens with bass guitars alright, especially active ones DI'd.