Realistic Land Prices

SafeSurfer

The latest Daft price survey reports a 75% drop in the value of land.
http://www.daft.ie/report/

Most of this drop in value is due to development sites losing value because of the recession and property crash. However there is a drop in purely agricultural land values also.

An interesting report charts the long term average price of land in Ireland and also compares Irish land prices with elsewhere in the EU.
http://irelandafternama.wordpress.com/tag/land-prices/

The figures make for interesting reading. Why should a hectare of land in Ireland be worth 6 times the value of a hectare in Germany and twice the value of a hectare in the Netherlands, one of the most densely populated countries in the world?

Do you think that with banks not lending, a weak economy, increasing taxes and uncertainty over future CAP payments that land prices are facing a perfect storm and the land values will continue to fall to something approaching "fair economic" value in the decade ahead?

roosterman71

As with everything, land is worth only what someone is willing to pay. All that report telle me is that we were willing to pay more per hectare than the Dutch or Germans

Birdnuts

roosterman71 wrote: »

As with everything, land is worth only what someone is willing to pay. All that report telle me is that we were willing to pay more per hectare than the Dutch or Germans

Thats just crazy - I hope to get my hands on a house and 30 acres for less then a 100k in the coming years as is currently the case in parts of SOuthern France:);)

Casinoking

First of all land is cheaper in Germany and France because there's a hell of a lot more of it. Secondly they don't have the same obsession with owning land on the continent. In France, Germany and even the UK it's fairly commonplace for families to rent the same farm for several generations without actually owning an acre of it. For the same reaons you can rent the best of tillage land in France on a long-term lease for €40/acre while it costs €200/acre here. I don't see land prices here ever coming back to similar prices to the rest of Europe for the simple fact they were never on the same level as the rest of Europe. As for getting a house and 30 reasonably good acres for less than €100K, I'd start brushing up on my French!

Alibear

I've always believed that agricultural land keeps its value, but development land is a whole other story!

Birdnuts

Casinoking wrote: »

First of all land is cheaper in Germany and France because there's a hell of a lot more of it. Secondly they don't have the same obsession with owning land on the continent. In France, Germany and even the UK it's fairly commonplace for families to rent the same farm for several generations without actually owning an acre of it. For the same reaons you can rent the best of tillage land in France on a long-term lease for €40/acre while it costs €200/acre here. I don't see land prices here ever coming back to similar prices to the rest of Europe for the simple fact they were never on the same level as the rest of Europe. As for getting a house and 30 reasonably good acres for less than €100K, I'd start brushing up on my French!

I'm looking at the Dordogne region which is undulating and heavily wooded - I suppose its Frances answer to Monaghan;)

irishh_bob

the old addage about them not making any more of it is a bit of a nonsense , they werent making any more of it 50 years ago either :rolleyes:

as for land prices , i believe they will see a significant fall next year , the arrival of the IMF ( which is more or less acknowledged as a given ) will cause an earthquake in every section of the economy and land prices will not be exempt , land is still about four or five thousand and acre too dear on average and i believe it will average around 5 k per acre in the next ten years , that said , i do believe quality dairy farms will command premium price ( as thier is huge potential for the dairying sector to expand ) but small cottage field farms, stuck up long lanes will go for around three thousand and acre , the average price of land in the year 2000 was only around five thousand and acre and the economy in 2010 is in far worse shape than it was back then , just because thier is a ( seemingly ) returned look towards farming does not mean land prices should stay up , the country turned its back on farming for around 15 years yet land prices went through the roof , good milk prices and even beef prices this year are not enough of a reason for farm land to remain at exhorbitant prices

kboc

Birdnuts wrote: »

Thats just crazy - I hope to get my hands on a house and 30 acres for less then a 100k in the coming years as is currently the case in parts of SOuthern France:);)

When you find one let me and i'll give you double what you paid

Muckit

Birdnuts wrote: »

Thats just crazy - I hope to get my hands on a house and 30 acres for less then a 100k in the coming years as is currently the case in parts of SOuthern France:);)

Your well suited to the life of farming with that optimism!!!:D I hope it works out for you. I'm after a small parcel of land to build a house too so I hope your speculations are right!

Shauny2010

Its a great time to expand the owl acreage a bit.
Land prices are low at the moment with many places unsold. I agree that they have fallen significantly yet the auctioneers are still trying to hold up prices.
I bought land this year at a third of the asking price, the auctioneer tried the usual bullSh££ about hows there's more people interested; I laughed right in to his face.
I'm now negotiating with another for a larger property again at a big reduction on there asking price.
You cant expect to get land for next to nothing, the value of cash is going to fall dramatically in the next few years so don't miss a great opportunity.

mollzer

So what is the average price per acre of agricultural land now? or is it being left up to the auctioneers?

maidhc

mollzer wrote: »

So what is the average price per acre of agricultural land now? or is it being left up to the auctioneers?

Whatever farmers will pay... I hear €8,000 an acre isn't out of order for decent land.

Birdnuts

Shauny2010 wrote: »

Its a great time to expand the owl acreage a bit.
Land prices are low at the moment with many places unsold. I agree that they have fallen significantly yet the auctioneers are still trying to hold up prices.
I bought land this year at a third of the asking price, the auctioneer tried the usual bullSh££ about hows there's more people interested; I laughed right in to his face.
I'm now negotiating with another for a larger property again at a big reduction on there asking price.
You cant expect to get land for next to nothing, the value of cash is going to fall dramatically in the next few years so don't miss a great opportunity.

I wouldn't trust an auctioneer to tell me what day it was - many appear to be still living on planet Bertie, waiting for the soft landing and all that guff:rolleyes:

Tora Bora

maidhc wrote: »

Whatever farmers will pay... I hear €8,000 an acre isn't out of order for decent land.

Yes, and from a business perspective that is way too much. The value of land should be x times it's earning potential! Strip out subsidy income, and for many farming enterprises you are looking at a very small true value:mad:

irishh_bob

mollzer wrote: »

So what is the average price per acre of agricultural land now? or is it being left up to the auctioneers?

as recently reported in the ifj , the average price of land is close on 10 k an acre and actually rose in value last year , as i said earlier , i expect it to drop significantly next year

while the future of dairying is bright ( in the east and south ) , the politics of land in this country means its very difficult for ambitious farmers to expand , people hold on to land like grim death so very little is sold , lack of cash will change this in the next number of years and the fact that the era of very generous subsidies to irish farmers is very soon coming down the tracks ,beef farmers with relativley small holdings will simply become unviable without the present cheque in the post , all this will free up the amount of land available on the market and will inevitabley drive down prices , ireland is a sparsley populated country , thier is loads of land out there , the problem up to now has been the politics of land which has kept an artificial floor under the price

5live

Tora Bora wrote: »

Yes, and from a business perspective that is way too much. The value of land should be x times it's earning potential! Strip out subsidy income, and for many farming enterprises you are looking at a very small true value:mad:

But what is its earning potential? Is it linked to enterprise type? Soil type? Depth? Fertility? Slope? My farm is worth more to me than 500 acres next door because of our 300+ years of history as tenants and owners. Every field has an impressive history(to me:o) which is linked to is previous use and findings like graves, standing stones, ring forts, previous houses and funny stories over the last 150 years. I could not sell any of it unless forced but the next generation might not have that emotional link or immoveable roots. Land is worth what someone will pay for it on any given day. Be that 5 or 50,000 euro an acre. Caveat emptor as they say. BUYER BEWARE

Tora Bora

5live wrote: »

But what is its earning potential? Is it linked to enterprise type? Soil type? Depth? Fertility? Slope? My farm is worth more to me than 500 acres next door because of our 300+ years of history as tenants and owners. Every field has an impressive history(to me:o) which is linked to is previous use and findings like graves, standing stones, ring forts, previous houses and funny stories over the last 150 years. I could not sell any of it unless forced but the next generation might not have that emotional link or immoveable roots. Land is worth what someone will pay for it on any given day. Be that 5 or 50,000 euro an acre. Caveat emptor as they say. BUYER BEWARE

Like Carrickthomond:) http://www.imdb.com/video/screenplay/vi1072824601/

zetorman

I am in the unfortunate position of seeing the farm next door to me going up for sale. Naturally I had a bid on it but sadly I had to drop out of the race fairly early on due to shortage of funds.
My kind bank manager quickly explained to me that
(a) I did not have any spare cash sitting in a bank account as savings.
(b) I therefore would have to borrow every cent needed ....purchase price plus all the associated costs.
(c) even if I got all of that there was simply no way that the new land would ever be able to finance the repayments.
As far as he was concerned it was madness to continue bidding....so with great reluctance and sadness I had to "let it go"

The deal has now been signed and my new neighbour wanted to "Bury a bit of spare money" and intends to keep a few ponies on it ???????????

Its hard not to be angry:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

5live

:D:D Exactly. Its a lot closer than many of us would like to admit. In my own family 1865:( and still way too close for comfort. Bullet holes from black and tans. A famine graveyard found and the man that found it never recovered. An ancient tunnel with a skull found in a quarry. A mass stone. Only 2 alive that has even a fraction of the history of this farm and where momentous(for those involved) events took place. Hiding places against the free state forces( and us a blueshirt family). Apple trees planted in memory of lost children. There is more to value a piece of land than its productive capacity imho:o. But i have been wrong before and in no doubt i will be wrong again. But if i forget where i have come from how will i know my destination?

5live

zetorman wrote: »

I am in the unfortunate position of seeing the farm next door to me going up for sale. Naturally I had a bid on it but sadly I had to drop out of the race fairly early on due to shortage of funds.
My kind bank manager quickly explained to me that
(a) I did not have any spare cash sitting in a bank account as savings.
(b) I therefore would have to borrow every cent needed ....purchase price plus all the associated costs.
(c) even if I got all of that there was simply no way that the new land would ever be able to finance the repayments.
As far as he was concerned it was madness to continue bidding....so with great reluctance and sadness I had to "let it go"

The deal has now been signed and my new neighbour wanted to "Bury a bit of spare money" and intends to keep a few ponies on it ???????????
Its gaulling alright. Sorry to hear. But the wheel turns and while one door closes another opens. Bide a while
Its hard not to be angry:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

But channel that anger into productive action rather than kicking the bejaysus out of a tyre

Tora Bora

zetorman wrote: »

The deal has now been signed and my new neighbour wanted to "Bury a bit of spare money" and intends to keep a few ponies on it ???????????

Its hard not to be angry:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

Now if only you had kept an eye on him, you might know where exactly he buried the money:cool: You could do a bit of moonlighting with your shovel:D