question about projection

metrovelvet

I know wikipedia isn't the most subtle of sources but it is accessible so I will refer to what I read up on projection.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection

To understand the process, consider a person in a couple who has thoughts of infidelity. Instead of dealing with these undesirable thoughts consciously, they unconsciously project these feelings onto the other person, and begin to think that the other has thoughts of infidelity and may be having an affair. Thus one can obtain 'acquittal by his conscience - if he projects his own impulses to faithlessness on to the partner to whom he owes faith'[8].In this sense, projection is related to denial, arguably the only defense mechanism that is more primitive than projection. Projection, like all defense mechanisms, provides a function whereby a person can protect their conscious mind from a feeling that is otherwise repulsive.
Projection can also be established as a means of obtaining or justifying certain actions that would normally be found atrocious or heinous. This often means projecting false accusations, information, etc. onto an individual for the sole purpose of maintaining a self-created illusion. One of the many problems with the process whereby 'something dangerous that is felt inside can be moved outside - a process of "projection"' - is that as a result 'the projector may become somewhat depleted and rendered limp in character, as he loses part of his personality'

I am wondering if it is possible to project so strongly onto a person that one can create the outcome they are so afraid of. In other words of a jealous partner is paranoid about their lover cheating, and projecting that fear/wish? of who the lover should be is there a risk/possibility/likelyhood of the lover then becoming unfaithful and fulfilling the projection?

JuliusCaesar

It's not magic. A person whose partner is forever jealous and interprets every action as indicative of possible infidelity, may well get fed up and think "might as well be hung for a sheep as a lamb".

Psychoanalysts may call them defense mechanism, others might call them compensatory strategies. They are posited to exist.

Torakx

What is it called when for example one person in the relationship has an idea or fantasy built up of the other person(which is unrealistic) and gets frustrated when that person doesnt fit that paradigm? Is that also projection or something else entirely?

Odysseus

metrovelvet wrote: »

I am wondering if it is possible to project so strongly onto a person that one can create the outcome they are so afraid of. In other words of a jealous partner is paranoid about their lover cheating, and projecting that fear/wish? of who the lover should be is there a risk/possibility/likelyhood of the lover then becoming unfaithful and fulfilling the projection?

Would that not be more a case of projective identification?

metrovelvet

Odysseus wrote: »

Would that not be more a case of projective identification?

I would have thought so but thought I should ask the experts.

Its fascinating how we create destinies.

hadas

You sound worried. If your partner is going to cheat, chances are it is not because you are worried but because he/she will have an opportunity to cheat and/or other factors can contribute to make him/her less likely to be faithful.

Projection is a term used in psychodynamic therapy whereby the therapist has certain feelings towards the client they are working with - which are generally in reaction to the client's presentation. The idea is that we all influence others through our emotions and behaviour... but that in itself is not a cause of someone to behave...

metrovelvet

hadas wrote: »

You sound worried. If your partner is going to cheat, chances are it is not because you are worried but because he/she will have an opportunity to cheat and/or other factors can contribute to make him/her less likely to be faithful.

Projection is a term used in psychodynamic therapy whereby the therapist has certain feelings towards the client they are working with - which are generally in reaction to the client's presentation. The idea is that we all influence others through our emotions and behaviour... but that in itself is not a cause of someone to behave...

Im not worried. I have no partner. However I am surrounded by neurotics and people with paranoid fantasies who seem to bring disaster upon themselves or maybe it's just a case of paranoics having real enemies. Bit if you have someone projecting on you consistently and strongly, or even introjecting long enough, in other words telling you who you should be, and you are weak enough, It would seem to be it would be easy enough to identify with that projection, internalise it and become it.

Just my amateur, untrained opinion on it.

Projection is not just for therapists. I believe what you are talking about is transferance.

hadas

metrovelvet wrote: »

Im not worried. I have no partner. However I am surrounded by neurotics and people with paranoid fantasies who seem to bring disaster upon themselves or maybe it's just a case of paranoics having real enemies. Bit if you have someone projecting on you consistently and strongly, or even introjecting long enough, in other words telling you who you should be, and you are weak enough, It would seem to be it would be easy enough to identify with that projection, internalise it and become it.

Just my amateur, untrained opinion on it.

Projection is not just for therapists. I believe what you are talking about is transferance.

It is more complicated than that. There are so many factors that it is hard to just blame the victim "you caused it because you are so paranoid".

And yes - you are right. I confused projection with transferance. Projection can be powerful - especially if what you said "weak enough" people can be more vulnerable (age, confidence, self-esteem). You know a good bit for an amateur, untrained person!

metrovelvet

hadas wrote: »

It is more complicated than that. There are so many factors that it is hard to just blame the victim "you caused it because you are so paranoid".

And yes - you are right. I confused projection with transferance. Projection can be powerful - especially if what you said "weak enough" people can be more vulnerable (age, confidence, self-esteem). You know a good bit for an amateur, untrained person!

Of course its not just down to blaming the victim at all. But it does seem to me that you can create the very outcomes you don't want by being too paranoid and casting your shadows among the world. I chose the jealous lover as an example, because if they let their fear take over they could adopt behaviors that will lead to driving someone away and causing the very rejection they feared. A very simplistic and obvious example, but a good one I think. This may not exempt the unfaithful from charges of adultery, but it does take two to be 'unfaithful' because the neurotic one was lacking 'faith' in his/her lover. Ya see?

In complex dynamics there is a technical level to right and wrong and who is accountable for what, and technically yes you are right the adulterer makes his or her choice, but then you have to ask exactly who was 'unfaithful' in the first place?

hadas

ehm..I think this again might be used by offenders (of any kind...) "you drove me to cheat" "You told me I was stupid so that is why I act stupid" and it is a great way to shift responsibility. I do however, believe that we can influence people to think negatively about themselves, especially as parents if we are critical and damning. Projecting - seeing something in yourself and blaming others about having that trait or quality right...mostly partners can see through it.

metrovelvet

hadas wrote: »

ehm..I think this again might be used by offenders (of any kind...) "you drove me to cheat" "You told me I was stupid so that is why I act stupid" and it is a great way to shift responsibility. I do however, believe that we can influence people to think negatively about themselves, especially as parents if we are critical and damning. Projecting - seeing something in yourself and blaming others about having that trait or quality right...mostly partners can see through it.

I agree with you it could be, but that's not a reason to acknowledge its possibility.

I dont think all partners can see through it and even if they can they can be powerless to stop it other than getting out of the relationship and as you know that can be more complicated than it looks.

There are situations where the lines of culpability get very crossed. Just look at what happenned at Stockholm. I read recently about a case where a man went on line to a single parenting website and convinced three mothers to molest their children while he watched online. He convinced each of them that he was a child psychologist and could help them with problems with their kids. ANd they fell for it. All three face convictions, and while yes the mothers are accountable I would think he is far more to blame for exploiting our natural tendancies to follow authorities.

hadas

And that is down to projection or something else? I have lost you.

metrovelvet

hadas wrote: »

And that is down to projection or something else? I have lost you.

No. The case I was talking about is down to right down conmanship but I was using it to illustrate the fine lines of accountability.

hadas

So - you think we should not underestimate to power of influence some people have over vulnerable others. I agree. There are many cases of it. However, I think people generally know if something they are doing is right or wrong - cheating, mollesting, stealing, gossipping you name it. Saying that they were influenced by others is one thing but shifting the accountablity is another. We can say the same thing about TV. "TV made me do it". At the same time, millions of others were not motivated to "do what TV told them to do". So as I said before, there are more factors involved in the situation rather than Projector/projectee.

metrovelvet

That's not quite what I'm talking about.

hadas

So what are you talking about?