Independence Once Again

CrankyCod

The strong protests against the huge amounts of money spent on the bank bailout and to reduce the national deficit are understandable; people are angry, particularly at the lack of choice; all the main parties are agreed that the deficit must be cut.

I've heard nobody ask what price WE the citizens/suckers are going to demand for funding this calamity? Will we get better governance, better regulation, transparency, honesty? Will we f***.

Maybe there's an opportunity here: we can see this as the price to be paid to regain our independence, and to reset our relationship with our 'representatives'. Once we have reduced our deficit to manageable levels we should continue until it is zero: and pass legislation to forbid any government to allow the the national debt to rise beyond 3% of GDP. This would stop politicians from buying elections as they have been doing since 1977, with our money.

We should be determined that we will never again put ourselves in this helpless condition, where we are at the mercy of investors and brute market sentiment. This would drag out the hardship but at the end we would be free and clear of the market parasites.

As a people we once glorified killing and dying for abstract forms of independence: surely we can take on the burden of a few years’ austerity to ensure that our children will be truly independent?

However, once we gain our independence for the second time we need to think carefully about what kind of society we want, and what values will prevent us from sliding back into the gombeenism and selfishness that have ended our first attempt at nationhood.

rightwingdub

How about making it illegal to run a budget deficit irrespective of how well or how badly the economy is doing.
Banning above inflation increases in all forms of public spending, ie social welfare, public sector pay, employment levels, pensions etc.

Gombeenery has always been part of the Irish pysche, low level corruption has always been tolerated in Irish society.

CrankyCod

QUOTE]How about making it illegal to run a budget deficit irrespective of how well or how badly the economy is doing.[/QUOTE]

I agree.

Gombeenery has always been part of the Irish pysche, low level corruption has always been tolerated in Irish society.

And thats why "we are where we are". We elected these clowns, and sadly they are largely representative of us....but we now need to rethink what we want our future representatives to do in our name.

Once we regain control of our own budgets, we need to seriously consider how well the "admire the cute hoor" philosophy has served us.

Nozebleed

What Strong Protests are you talking about?

rightwingdub

CrankyCod wrote: »

QUOTE]How about making it illegal to run a budget deficit irrespective of how well or how badly the economy is doing.

I agree.



And thats why "we are where we are". We elected these clowns, and sadly they are largely representative of us....but we now need to rethink what we want our future representatives to do in our name.

Once we regain control of our own budgets, we need to seriously consider how well the "admire the cute hoor" philosophy has served us.[/QUOTE]

Maybe a benevolent EU/IMF dictatorship for a few years may force us to reassess our attitudes towatds gombeen politics in Ireland.

CrankyCod

Maybe a benevolent EU/IMF dictatorship for a few years may force us to reassess our attitudes towatds gombeen politics in Ireland

I'm not sure the words benevolent and IMF can be used i nthe same sentence:)

But in effect we are under the indirect control of the IMF: we're obliged to come up with a party-pack of FOUR budgets together, so any idea of sovereignty is pure illusion. The first condition for adulthood is control over expenditure; we've reverted to a teenage country living with our EU parents.

View

rightwingdub wrote: »

How about making it illegal to run a budget deficit irrespective of how well or how badly the economy is doing.

Some US States have such a ban. Also, one EU state has recently introduced one. That state which was busy debating the merits of this idea while we were in "Celtic Tiger" la-la land is .... Germany.

PanchoVilla

I think we need to introduce employment contracts for TDs and ministers that are legally binding to force them to carry out promises made during electoral campaigns within a reasonable timeframe. This requirement should be written into the constitution.

We also need a system of checks and balances. As it is, the government can basically do whatever it likes regardless of what other TDs' opinions are. This is completely undemocratic and unfair.

femur61

I think it is New Zealand that reassesses a public servants performance every 5 years. And some should remember the term servant. It really grates me that some in the PS earn over €100 and if they drop dead in the morning they wouldn't be missed. We really need to reform the electoral sysem, reduce number of TD's and their exorborant wages. :mad:

Callan57

I'm not a public servant but I find it somewhat unfair that with all the ignominy being heaped on the salaries/pensions in the PS not a dickie bird about the 'professional classes' that have been screwing the general public for decades ... I'm referring to judges, barristers, solicitors, doctors, dentists, consultants, opticians, accountants, chemists etc etc etc
Anyone who thinks the PS Unions have been successful in negotiating favorable terms & conditions for their members should have a long hard look at how successful the representative associations for these professional classes have been in 'feathered their nests' and not just during Celtic Tiger years either!
To my knowledge none of these professionals have reduced their fees in light of changed conditions.

oncevotedff

CrankyCod wrote: »

....I've heard nobody ask what price WE the citizens/suckers are going to demand for funding this calamity? Will we get better governance, better regulation, transparency, honesty? Will we f***.....

We have the governance, regulation, transparency and honesty we voted for in 2007. If you want better, vote for it in 2012.

Manach

Offhand re: previous poster's points, I'd like to aid
- Judges's wages I think are prevented from being reduced, as per the constitution
- Mary Harney had reduced last year the chemist's fees?

Pete_Cavan

PanchoVilla wrote: »

We also need a system of checks and balances. As it is, the government can basically do whatever it likes regardless of what other TDs' opinions are. This is completely undemocratic and unfair.

The government comprises of the majority of TDs. All TDs are directly elected by the people. So the majority of the people elected by the people of this country have the power to make decisions. How on earth is that undemocratic?

Maybe you are referring to the party whip system, but at that, TDs are free to leave the party and keep their seat if they disagree with the party line.

Jeboa Safari

rightwingdub wrote: »

How about making it illegal to run a budget deficit irrespective of how well or how badly the economy is doing.
Banning above inflation increases in all forms of public spending, ie social welfare, public sector pay, employment levels, pensions etc.

Gombeenery has always been part of the Irish pysche, low level corruption has always been tolerated in Irish society.

Bad idea, budget deficits are sometimes needed, and not always bad