DB - Aston Quay - poor bus parking.

trellheim

I was pulling out of the Fleet St. Car park on Wednesday, this entailed the usual turn out of Bedford Row onto Aston Quay.

The usual queue of out of service buses was to my right, but whatever dimwit had parked the nearest bus on my right, was right up to the edge of the junction..

this left my sightline to see oncoming traffic to essentially zero ... I checked the bus stop lines and they seem a good bit back ( to give you the needed sightline ) so DB if you are reading this, please let the smart people park the buses.

( this is the one and only time so far I've thanked the 30 kph limit )

KC61

Hopefully in the not too distant future that will be a thing of the past with no buses parked on Aston Quay when the 78a/40 and 79/27b mergers take place.

trad

It's been going for years, DB thinks it owns the Quays. Busses abandoned everywhere. They use it as a free bus park while everone else has to pay a premium for parking in the city. They used to have bus park off Abbey Street but they sold that for developement so now they use the streets, and for free.

KC61

trad wrote: »

It's been going for years, DB thinks it owns the Quays. Busses abandoned everywhere. They use it as a free bus park while everone else has to pay a premium for parking in the city. They used to have bus park off Abbey Street but they sold that for developement so now they use the streets, and for free.

Bizarrely enough buses terminating in the city centre have to park somewhere. Even when the small area at Strand Street was operational there were still buses parked on-street. In order to operate a bus service there are always times when buses may be parked - not every bus is operational all day.

DB tried to remove the Ballyfermot buses from Aston Quay before but local opposition in Ballyfermot (led by SF) forced a rethink.

Aston Quay will no longer be a bus terminus once the two mergers I mentioned above take place.

lynchie

trellheim wrote: »

I was pulling out of the Fleet St. Car park on Wednesday, this entailed the usual turn out of Bedford Row onto Aston Quay.

The usual queue of out of service buses was to my right, but whatever dimwit had parked the nearest bus on my right, was right up to the edge of the junction..

this left my sightline to see oncoming traffic to essentially zero ... I checked the bus stop lines and they seem a good bit back ( to give you the needed sightline ) so DB if you are reading this, please let the smart people park the buses.

( this is the one and only time so far I've thanked the 30 kph limit )

Well the 51b/c/d that would have been parked to your right will no longer be there from Sunday as they are all being moved to Hawkins street. Not sure if they are moving another route to that spot but it is a nightmare trying to get out of there in a car when you cant see to your right.

KC61

There will be bus stops for the 37, 39, 39a and 70 on Aston Quay, but these will be normal bus stops.

trad

Whilst I appreciate that busses that terminate in the city have to park some where and busses are not in use all day, there are places like Donnybrook, Ringsend, Conyngham Road that are owned by DB for DB to park their fleet.

If you drive down Eden Quay chances are you will meet a DB head on who has to pull out of their all day parking spot on a bus lane to the incorrect side of a continuous white line (not to mention a one way street) to pass another blissfully undisturbed DB vehicle.

Bazzer2

Bear in mind that the final say on where bus stops are located rests not with Dublin Bus, but with the Garda.

KC61

trad wrote: »

Whilst I appreciate that busses that terminate in the city have to park some where and busses are not in use all day, there are places like Donnybrook, Ringsend, Conyngham Road that are owned by DB for DB to park their fleet.

If you drive down Eden Quay chances are you will meet a DB head on who has to pull out of their all day parking spot on a bus lane to the incorrect side of a continuous white line (not to mention a one way street) to pass another blissfully undisturbed DB vehicle.

Sometimes buses may only be parked for 45 minutes to one hour - which does not allow time for getting out to depots. Similarly driver rosters may not have sufficient time to do so.

For an effective bus operation you have to have bus stands as well as bus termini. That is exactly what the latter half of Eden Quay is. I think that you will find that the buses are not there all day - this is a common misconception. There are eight routes terminating on Eden Quay - 15, 15a, 15b, 49, 54a, 65, 65b and 84x. With that number of routes terminating there it is inevitable that there will always be buses laying over between journeys - most buses will have a little leeway in their schedule to allow for delays en route.

dowlingm

KC61 - that may be the case but it seems like some of the parking described above is illegal - i.e. outside the approved bus stop zones (since an approved bus stop zone can't include a junction!)

Sounds like the local law and the district DB chief need to have a conversation about moving at least some of those buses on using crew changes by having rested crew available at the Quay to take the bus straight out.

KC61

dowlingm wrote: »

KC61 - that may be the case but it seems like some of the parking described above is illegal - i.e. outside the approved bus stop zones (since an approved bus stop zone can't include a junction!)

Sounds like the local law and the district DB chief need to have a conversation about moving at least some of those buses on using crew changes by having rested crew available at the Quay to take the bus straight out.

dowlingm I'm not justifying or condoning illegal parking (and it was one bus that was mentioned as being illegally parked not en masse) - just explaining that buses are not laying over all day as some people think, and that to run a proper bus operation you are always going to have buses at termini for a period.

Hence at locations such as Parnell Square, Eden Quay and Marlborough Street where 8-10 routes terminate there will always be buses present at the termini.

This will diminish as the network redesign is rolled out as less routes will terminate in the city centre.

AlekSmart

KC61 - that may be the case but it seems like some of the parking described above is illegal - i.e. outside the approved bus stop zones (since an approved bus stop zone can't include a junction!)

Sounds like the local law and the district DB chief need to have a conversation about moving at least some of those buses on using crew changes by having rested crew available at the Quay to take the bus straight out.

Good Stuff Dowlingm,and perhaps whilst the Law Officer is at it he/she can do a Job-Lot on it and have an equally strong conversation with the Management of Dualway (Red-Bus City Tour) who go one better than Dublin Bus in this matter.

In the case of Dualway,this company station a staff-member on the footpath outside Clerys at the junction with Sackville Place.

This staff member stides about roaring RED-BUS TOUR !!! at the top of his voice but his piece de resistance is then to marshal every Dualway departure into stopping in a totally illegal location.

The Bus is stopped ON a Pedestrian Crossing.
The Bus is stopped within 5 Meters of a (Busy) junction.
The Bus totally obscures the Statutory NO LEFT TURN signage.
The Bus interferes with vision of drivers emerging from Sackville Place.
The Bus intereferes with the vision of drivers on O Connell St southbound approaching the Junction.
The Bus impedes other properly licenced services from addressing their licenced stop at Abbey St/O Connell St junction.
The Bus interferes with the vision of intending passengers attempting to utilize the licenced stop in safety.

I`m presuming our voluble Ticket Seller is thus accepting responsibility for the consequences of his directions to Drivers to Stop in an unsafe and unapproved location.

It appears that Dualway staff are describing this stop as 1A on their City-Tour without apparently realizing that they have already got a long standing Stop 1A in LOWER Abbey Street.

It is not that long ago that Dualway`s principal penned a particularly virulent letter to the Minister for Transport in which he levelled the most serious of allegations at Dublin Bus City Tour Staff.

Some DB Tour staff felt that their employer could have responded somewhat more robustly to this letter.

However perhaps DB were correct in not gracing the gentleman with a response as his company`s policy at this most visible of locations rather whips the mat out from under his feet when he refers to ISO 9000 standards and such grandiose sounding stuff.

It appears that the same Company has absolutely no problem compromising the safety of every other citizen be they pedestrian or vehicle bound as long as it generates revenue for their City Tour.

There is little doubt in my mind that the continued parking of the Dualway Bus at this location WILL cause or contribute to a serious accident here.

Which is where I came in......as Dowlingm sez...Its up to the Law Officer to enforce the simpler elements of the Road Traffic Act at this location,given that the management of the Company concerned quite obviously feel they do not apply to them.

That should make for a busy day in Store Street ?

Carawaystick

AlekSmart wrote: »

The Bus is stopped ON a Pedestrian Crossing.
The Bus is stopped within 5 Meters of a (Busy) junction.
The Bus totally obscures the Statutory NO LEFT TURN signage.
The Bus interferes with vision of drivers emerging from Sackville Place.
The Bus intereferes with the vision of drivers on O Connell St southbound approaching the Junction.
The Bus impedes other properly licenced services from addressing their licenced stop at Abbey St/O Connell St junction.
The Bus interferes with the vision of intending passengers attempting to utilize the licenced stop in safety.

If the country was't awash with money, they surely would be a candidate for yer wan off the fbd ad to go Kerching! and get a few on the spot fines for the nations coffers.....

AlekSmart

Krrching indeed...Oddly enough our Civic Guardians are to be seen strolling idly by on a regular basis totally oblivious to the BIG RED BUS sitting idly on the Pedestrian Crossing..

However that is not to tar all the force with one brush.....I was a very pleased witness to a Motorcycle Traffic Guard (Some level of Interest) heading NORTH along O Connell St take a serious interest in the BIG RED BUS one Saturday morning...so much so that he/she rode across the central median to collar our BIG RED BUS driver,who having spotted the Motorcyclist`s manouvere,took off in a huge cloud of blue smoke.....:D

Our intrepid Garda finally managed to get the BIG RED BUS drivers attention at College Street.....I don`t know the outcome,but generally them Gards like you to stop when they wave at ye...

If anybody want`s to observe this dangerous codology just spend half an hour watching from Easons steps and you`ll get some idea.....The Gardai do it all the time from their post at the GPO.. :rolleyes:

Just pay particular attention to the relative positions of 1)the Pedestrian Signals,2) The No Left Turn Sign,3) The emerging Traffic from Sackville Place,4) Passengers standing at the Dublin Bus stop at Abbey Street/O Connell St. and 5) THE BIG RED BUS.

:eek:

DDigital

As much as I enjoyed your story Alek the big red bus and its obvious ability to evoke the ire of DB staff on O'Connell street is irrelevant here. However the parking of buses by DB on Aston Quay near the junction of Bedford Row and how it evokes the ire of private/commercial drivers is very relevant.

As a regular enough user of this junction, I think its fair to say that even when buses are parked legally, the visibility of oncoming traffic is poor. The junction just isn't capable of being used in a safe manner. I suppose this in itself is an example of a city where a much yearned for harmonious balance between bus and car has yet to be found. It highlights the depths our city planners have sunk to in an attempt to appease all people to the benefit of none.

Victor

DDigital wrote: »

It highlights the depths our city planners have sunk to in an attempt to appease all people to the benefit of none.

This is between the Garda and hte bus operators. The city has no say, other than in marking the road.

AlekSmart

As much as I enjoyed your story Alek the big red bus and its obvious ability to evoke the ire of DB staff on O'Connell street is irrelevant here. However the parking of buses by DB on Aston Quay near the junction of Bedford Row and how it evokes the ire of private/commercial drivers is very relevant.

Oh Oh...DDigital I`v failed miserably in your case to get my point across,

I did not intend the post as a "Story" to be enjoyed or otherwise.

It is rather an account of a daily occurrence,which rather matches your own in effect and potential for danger and it is hugely relevant to your experience also.

What should be irrelevant is my status as a Dublin Bus employee,for in raising this,you unwittingly slip into the standard response I get when I attempt to raise or report the issue to either The Gardai or Civic Authorities.

The assumption made is that because I work for a competitor I`m therefore out to "do-down" the poor little private man,which I am not.

Dualway are perfectly entitled to operate and compete as long as they adhere to the same conditions as everybody else.

If Dualway have to resort,on a daily basis, to blatantly unsafe and anti-social operating practices then their business model may well be flawed in a very serious way indeed ?

Is it acceptable for a Company to compel it`s drivers to break certain long established elements of the Road Traffic Act is a blatant manner ?

Has the company indemnified it`s Drivers in some way against any punishment which a court may impose upon successful conviction ?

This issue,for me,is about a corporate decision on the part of Dualway to blatantly operate in a dangerous manner from a thoroughly unsuitable,unapproved location which imposes a considerably increased risk-factor upon every other user of that part of the City.

One essential difference here is that the Dualway company has a member of staff stationed at Clerys/Sackville Place to ensure that all of the company`s services maintain the danger level.

I know that in Dublin Bus`s case if a driver parks illegally and gets a Parking Fine as a result that`s tough-luck as the company will not take up the cudgel on his/her behalf.

The "evoking the ire" you speak of should not differentiate along Public/Private lines at all.

Either the parking is legal or it is not.

The Dublin Street Parking Service people possess Bus/Truck size wheel-clamps and do utilize them so perhaps if you take the time to contact them you might just get a result (6022500).

However in the Dualway/O Connell St case the DSPS cannot take action as the Vehicle is not "Parked" rather it is operating from an illegal location,which is a matter for the Gardai it seems ....:rolleyes:

I`ll be in the City Centre later and if I get a chance I`ll point my box-brownie in the direction of Sackville Place and Stop 1 A ... :eek:

antoinolachtnai

DB buses aren't supposed to be left unattended at any time outside the depot, are they?

Tickityboo

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

DB buses aren't supposed to be left unattended at any time outside the depot, are they?

The only time they can't be left unattended is when the engine is running.

DDigital

Victor wrote: »

This is between the Garda and hte bus operators. The city has no say, other than in marking the road.

The city decides what roads/streets traffic can travel along. The city decides on the road markings in relation to bus bays/stops etc. As I said in my original post, illegal or not, this particular junction is problematic and ultimately the city is responsible.

DDigital

AlekSmart wrote: »

Oh Oh...DDigital I`v failed miserably in your case to get my point across,

I did not intend the post as a "Story" to be enjoyed or otherwise.

It is rather an account of a daily occurrence,which rather matches your own in effect and potential for danger and it is hugely relevant to your experience also.

What should be irrelevant is my status as a Dublin Bus employee,for in raising this,you unwittingly slip into the standard response I get when I attempt to raise or report the issue to either The Gardai or Civic Authorities.

The assumption made is that because I work for a competitor I`m therefore out to "do-down" the poor little private man,which I am not.

Dualway are perfectly entitled to operate and compete as long as they adhere to the same conditions as everybody else.

If Dualway have to resort,on a daily basis, to blatantly unsafe and anti-social operating practices then their business model may well be flawed in a very serious way indeed ?

Is it acceptable for a Company to compel it`s drivers to break certain long established elements of the Road Traffic Act is a blatant manner ?

Has the company indemnified it`s Drivers in some way against any punishment which a court may impose upon successful conviction ?

This issue,for me,is about a corporate decision on the part of Dualway to blatantly operate in a dangerous manner from a thoroughly unsuitable,unapproved location which imposes a considerably increased risk-factor upon every other user of that part of the City.

One essential difference here is that the Dualway company has a member of staff stationed at Clerys/Sackville Place to ensure that all of the company`s services maintain the danger level.

I know that in Dublin Bus`s case if a driver parks illegally and gets a Parking Fine as a result that`s tough-luck as the company will not take up the cudgel on his/her behalf.

The "evoking the ire" you speak of should not differentiate along Public/Private lines at all.

Either the parking is legal or it is not.

The Dublin Street Parking Service people possess Bus/Truck size wheel-clamps and do utilize them so perhaps if you take the time to contact them you might just get a result (6022500).

However in the Dualway/O Connell St case the DSPS cannot take action as the Vehicle is not "Parked" rather it is operating from an illegal location,which is a matter for the Gardai it seems ....:rolleyes:

I`ll be in the City Centre later and if I get a chance I`ll point my box-brownie in the direction of Sackville Place and Stop 1 A ... :eek:

Alek, Alek, please don't be offended! I appreciate the similar dangers posed when the Dualway fiasco is included. Furthermore, your position as a DB driver doesn't influence me when I commented herein. So please don't think that I'm singling you out due to your employment status.

My point in relation to Aston Quay is based on how city planners can allow such a situation to exist. Victor doesn't get it and thinks its a matter for the Gardai. But even when both DB drivers and private drivers obey the "law" the junction of Aston Quay and Bedford row is a disaster.

CIE

KC61 wrote: »

Hopefully in the not too distant future that will be a thing of the past with no buses parked on Aston Quay when the 78a/40 and 79/27b mergers take place.

Can't make all routes cross-city in order to solve that perceived problem.

I sometimes think back to the time before the Irish Life Mall opened, and the future location was boarded up on Lower Abbey Street (with those ominous "Post No Bills" markings); wouldn't have been a bad idea to build a Dublin District Busáras just for the city bus routes that terminated in town in a location like that, or maybe by the then-empty lots just north of there by Sean MacDermott Street. Dedicated parking spaces for the buses, sheltered access to the buses without getting rained on...where were the planners back then?

Alan_P

AlekSmart wrote: »

Oh Oh...DDigital I`v failed miserably in your case to get my point across,

I did not intend the post as a "Story" to be enjoyed or otherwise.

You clearly don't understand. Dublin Bus are entirely crap and their drivers are a collection of dangerous,radically unionised lunatics.

For example,the Luas/bus collision on Abbey Street was entirely the bus driver's fault, as adjudicated here, within hours of the event, based on photos which to me pretty much proved the Luas driver was at fault.When the chairman of CIE said his driver in that episode had a green light, it was still the bus driver's fault, because he should have proceeded more cautiously, or something. When it was revealed that the Luas driver was going to face criminal charges, there was discussion on here about how Dublin Bus need to change their traning policies, so far as I understood it so their drivers can psychically anticipate that something's about to drive into their bus and stop beforehand.

On other points, every bus driving by As Seirbihis or missing a stop is a driver malingering or evading passengers :- there's no possibility he was told to do it by his controller, to make up times.. Every bus stopped anywhere is a driver malingering :- there's no way the driver is waiting until the timetable tells him to take his bus out. Buses parked around the city centre are a complete waste of time and resources and valuable parking stops :- obviously when you try to accomodate a peak hour evening service, you don't need to pre-position buses (God help us, a minister for transport, one N. Dempsey, made this complaint. If he ever finds out that the ESB have generating capacity they only use at peak times, you can confidently expect the lights to start going out at 6PM on winter evenings).

In the real world where I live, the 84X is an excellent and reliable service, on a bus that's generally spotless, that turns up pretty much like clockwork, and is faster than the Dart, which it tempted me off.

AlekSmart

You clearly don't understand. Dublin Bus are entirely crap and their drivers are a collection of dangerous,radically unionised lunatics.

AlanP...at last...you have set me FREE..!!! I Have seen the LIGHT...Halleulejah !!!

Now to spread the word........:eek:

In the real world where I live, the 84X is an excellent and reliable service, on a bus that's generally spotless, that turns up pretty much like clockwork, and is faster than the Dart, which it tempted me off.

Oh,and AlanP...,Down with that sort of thing !!!!!

CIE

84X faster than the DART with Dublin's traffic jams? never mind the taxicabs all over the QBC bus lanes (or did they fix that problem)?

DART doesn't serve Kilcoole or Newcastle either. (IE suburban rail barely serves Kilcoole and there's no Newcastle station.)

Victor

CIE wrote: »

84X faster than the DART with Dublin's traffic jams? never mind the taxicabs all over the QBC bus lanes (or did they fix that problem)?

DART doesn't serve Kilcoole or Newcastle either. (IE suburban rail barely serves Kilcoole and there's no Newcastle station.)

FYI, AlekSmart is a sometime 84X driver, I suspect there was some flattery and less than complete accuracy in the post.

AlekSmart

I suspect there was some flattery and less than complete accuracy in the post.

Aw Shucks...and AlanP thinking Flattery would get him everywhere...:)

However on the 84X timekeeping bit he`s not far wrong,espec ially if the passenger is working in a City Centre location divorced from a Railway Station.

KC61

DDigital wrote: »

As much as I enjoyed your story Alek the big red bus and its obvious ability to evoke the ire of DB staff on O'Connell street is irrelevant here. However the parking of buses by DB on Aston Quay near the junction of Bedford Row and how it evokes the ire of private/commercial drivers is very relevant.

As a regular enough user of this junction, I think its fair to say that even when buses are parked legally, the visibility of oncoming traffic is poor. The junction just isn't capable of being used in a safe manner. I suppose this in itself is an example of a city where a much yearned for harmonious balance between bus and car has yet to be found. It highlights the depths our city planners have sunk to in an attempt to appease all people to the benefit of none.

As I've said several times above - in the not too distant future it will no longer be a problem as Aston Quay will no longer be a bus terminus.

trad

What about Malboro Street, Abbey Street, Eden Quay and the rest of the City?

KC61

trad wrote: »

What about Malboro Street, Abbey Street, Eden Quay and the rest of the City?

While Network Direct will remove some of the termini, you are still going to need bus stands in the city centre as services will still terminate in the city. That is the same in any major city.

Marlborough Street and Eden Quay will remain.

There needs to be some realism here - Marlborough Street is a stand for over 10 routes, as is Eden Quay. You can't suddenly magic them away.

As I said above the buses are not there all day as you seem to suspect - but rather for relatively short periods of time. However, with the volume of routes that terminate there people perceive that they are there for longer.

trellheim

Coming back to this as the OP
My point was that specifically Aston Quay and Bedford row was/is a disaster waiting to happen since whoever was policing the buses parked there was not doing his job, as I understand it there is usually some sort of senior bus dispatcher hanging around this area.

The provided bus stop by DCC when a bus is parked properly in it gives you a tiny bit of visibility. In this case the front of the doubledecker was in line with the right hand side of the junction, giving no room to see at all. Cross fingers and pull out slowly .

Well if the termini there are going though that'll be a big help. Excellent.