Kevin Myers

doleman2010

Excellent piece indo the Indo yesterday about charity collectors or not at the supermarket checkouts .
Also the sub article re the mugs who collect for the childrens wards etc, according to kevin the money just goes into the HSEs general spending funds where it goes on wages and expenses of the staff ,
Is this right handing this money over to an organisation that totally overstaffed and inefficient.?

dudara

Not a Consumer Issue - Moved to Humanities

dudara

CDfm

The article will make me think twice before contributing to any health service charity -I ould want my money to pay for extra's.

I can see how it could be a consumer issue but maybe it would be an idea if you changed the thread to where does charity money go.

Like when you contribute how much actually goes to real charity and how much goes on admin.

As a student I did some ticket selling at GAA matches and we got around 30 % of the take as commission and 70% went to the GAA. Not everyone would do it. You could make a bit at the bigger games or if the weather was good. They were very good to their ticket sellers as it was very hard.

So if I contribute to a homeless group I am a bit astounded if I see a huge amount going on admin. As in when did charity become a profession.

You will have some overhead or commision etc to be paid.

Certainly, not all charities are voluntary but if 100 % is going on admin or lobbying etc then it is a conjob.

doleman2010

I got a phone call a few months ago from a guy with a northern accent at 7pm weekday evening, told he directly he was from crumlin childrens hosp and was selling raffle tickets for a car .
I complimented him on being a HSE worker actually in work at 7pm especially in an admin position.He informed me that they all worked extreemly hard.
I was suspect at the very start as it was a private no and asked him again was he working for the hosp as a HSE employee and he confirmed he was .
So I asked for the dept he worked in and a phone no he was at so I could ring him back. HE became very ratty and hung up !
Contacted the hosp the day after and was put through to the fundraising dept who are a seperate entity and was told they subbed out the work to a call centre in N Ireland. Gave all my concerns re what they were doing and were to come back to me but never bothered.
Even if a person gave 10 euros to this crowd how much of it would get to the coffers of the overstaffed and overpaid HSE employees.

CDfm

That is call centre work and they work off a script.

The wording is normally " I am calling on behalf of the HSE" and even then they ( the HSE )are responsible for the tactics used by their fundraisers.

Call centre workers are usually not highly paid .

Bottle_of_Smoke

doleman2010 wrote: »

I got a phone call a few months ago from a guy with a northern accent at 7pm weekday evening, told he directly he was from crumlin childrens hosp and was selling raffle tickets for a car .
I complimented him on being a HSE worker actually in work at 7pm especially in an admin position.He informed me that they all worked extreemly hard.
I was suspect at the very start as it was a private no and asked him again was he working for the hosp as a HSE employee and he confirmed he was .
So I asked for the dept he worked in and a phone no he was at so I could ring him back. HE became very ratty and hung up !
Contacted the hosp the day after and was put through to the fundraising dept who are a seperate entity and was told they subbed out the work to a call centre in N Ireland. Gave all my concerns re what they were doing and were to come back to me but never bothered.
Even if a person gave 10 euros to this crowd how much of it would get to the coffers of the overstaffed and overpaid HSE employees.

Happens a lot as minimum wage is peanuts up there.

Some crowd kept ringing looking for my dad and would only speak to him and won't identify where they're calling from.

I kept asking to take a mesasage but they refused to say where they were calling from or leave a number.

They called for the fifth time in the space of a fortnight which happened to be the day after the IRA bombed the M15 headquarters during the summer so I said ''listen I'm starting to get a bit concerned people with ulster accents keep calling yet remaining very secretive about their organisation'' She died laughing and said it was ''nothing like that''

Next time she called I said I was my dad. They wanted him to sell tickets for a breast cancer raffle.

Thoie

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

Next time she called I said I was my dad. They wanted him to sell tickets for a breast cancer raffle.

This made me smile, because I had a similar story, and resolved it in a similar fashion. Except at the time I was a 20 year old female.

"Could I speak to Mr. Thoie's Father please?"
"Speaking"
"Um. Mr. Thoie's Father?"
"Yes, who is this?"
"Well, uh, Mr. Thoie's Father, I'm calling from..."

I have to say, I can't stand charity bag packers. 90% of the time a pleasant "No thank you" will suffice, when I don't want my groceries ruined by some cretins who want to go to a rap competition in Florida, or whatever the cause-de-jour is. I have specific charities that I donate to, in a time and manner of my choosing. There are certain others like the Guide Dogs that I'll give some change to.

There are many people who will volunteer for worthy charities, but there are a lot of "charities" out there that really just aren't that worthy. I won't donate to pay for someone to collect donations.

CDfm

I got a call in work from a crowd/magazine called Ambulance Ireland selling advertising supposedly support our local ambulance.

sam34

doleman2010 wrote: »

Excellent piece indo the Indo yesterday about charity collectors or not at the supermarket checkouts .
Also the sub article re the mugs who collect for the childrens wards etc, according to kevin the money just goes into the HSEs general spending funds where it goes on wages and expenses of the staff ,
Is this right handing this money over to an organisation that totally overstaffed and inefficient.?

from my experience, this is pure b/s

i've often collected for "friends of ward x" and the money has certainly not gone on staff wages or expenses, it has gone towards things that benefit patients, including tv/dvd players, garden areas, social outings etc. (it could be argued that the HSE should be providing some/all of these things anyway, but if patients get something worthwhile from it then its all good, imo)

CDfm

Eamonn Couglan does great work for Crumlin childrens hospital. The Bons in Cork ,a private hospital collect money for facitities.

So the issue for me is not in the giving to hospitals but I can see Myers point as the HSE is a hot potato and very politicised.

Donating to hospitals is not wrong.

Dades

Most of the charity packers I come across are for a genuine, specific cause.

Recently there's been a few for the Niall Mellon townshop trust - okay so I'm paying for their working holiday - good for them. I'd love to do it myself. You also see local kids collecting for their GAA club to get a new prefab or something.

I will be wary in future though if I see people collecting for hospital related things...

Nodin

Dades wrote:

I will be wary in future though if I see people collecting for hospital related things... .

See the most important thing is

doleman2010 wrote: »

Excellent piece indo the Indo yesterday about charity collectors or not at the supermarket checkouts .
Also the sub article re the mugs who collect for the childrens wards etc, according to kevin the money just goes into the HSEs general spending funds where it goes on wages and expenses of the staff ,
Is this right handing this money over to an organisation that totally overstaffed and inefficient.?

(my bold)

According to Kevin, Europe reconstructed itself after WWII with no aid from anyone. According to Kevin, the 'foreigners' in London have no idea of the sacrifices the Brits made in WWI and II (despite the tens of thousands of Sikh, Hindu and Muslim Indians, Africans, and other peoples that fought and died as members of or beside British forces). Therefore I'd take a large, large dose of salt with regards to anything he might say.

CDfm

You have always had bogus charity collectors.

Nodin

CDfm wrote: »

You have always had bogus charity collectors.

I don't see anyone saying otherwise. What I am saying is that a source of information that has proven not only to be wrong but stunningly so in the past would not be one on which to base a decision. Such serious inquiry elsewhere show said information to be correct, all well and good.

CDfm

I think in some way as a country we have lost our way and got into the state should do everything and grant aid everything.

Maybe, Myers is right and maybe there are accounting irregularities.

I dunno. Has he provided evidence of irregularities.

Nodin

CDfm wrote: »

I think in some way as a country we have lost our way and got into the state should do everything and grant aid everything.

Maybe, Myers is right and maybe there are accounting irregularities.

I dunno. Has he provided evidence of irregularities.

This isn't about "accounting irregularities". The claim being examined is that "the money goes straight into hospital funds, to help pay the wage bill and other costs". For that we have his word. His word has been demonstrably and significantly incorrect in the past, over a wide range of issues. Therefore, unless corroborating information arises from a reliable source, it would be foolish to take it at face value.

CDfm

I haven't followed the story, but, if the paper has printed it ,he must have a corroborating sourse or they will find themselves in court.

Has the hospital issued any denials and has he rebutted them or has it got to that ?

Like Myers or not ,he is a very interesting columnist who also gets it right and does get up peoples snots.

Nodin

CDfm wrote: »

I haven't followed the story, but, if the paper has printed it ,he must have a corroborating sourse or they will find themselves in court.

(.........)

Really? He doesn't mention any in the article.


His remarks don't, funnily enough, mention a specific fund raising drive, so no one can take a case there. And the HSE is hardly going to bother.

Here he accuses somebody of sectarian murder. See how that works out.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=67585004&postcount=362

Is this thread going to degenerate into you replying for the sake of getting the last word in, ad infinitum?

CDfm wrote: »

Like Myers or not ,he is a very interesting columnist who also gets it right...........

...occassionally he might, as does, rather famously, a broken clock.

CDfm

Nodin wrote: »

Really? He doesn't mention any in the article.


His remarks don't, funnily enough, mention a specific fund raising drive, so no one can take a case there. And the HSE is hardly going to bother.
.

My point really is that if he is right then it is a question of fact.

I dont know if he is right or wrong. If he has pointed out bad practice then we should not be afraid to discuss it.

Nodin

CDfm wrote: »

My point really is that if he is right then it is a question of fact.

I dont know if he is right or wrong. If he has pointed out bad practice then we should not be afraid to discuss it.

So this is you getting the last word in, ad infinitum, again...

CDfm wrote: »

I dont know if he is right or wrong. If he has pointed out bad practice then we should not be afraid to discuss it.

But he hasn't. He made a generalised assertion picked up by the OP. Theres no references/sources/instances - nada. Why should we cast aspersions on people with no evidence whatsoever?

If you don't know whether "he is right or wrong" why did you post

The article will make me think twice before contributing to any health service charity

?

Unless somebody can actually show with outside sources that what he stated re money going to "into hospital funds, to help pay the wage bill and other costs" is true in the circumstances he outlined, and that the practice is in fact widespread, its a baseless accusation founded on the anecdote of a most dubious source.

CDfm

I don't know what to think.

Myers is combatitive and has strong views and has raised some very uncomfortable stories in the past.

So I don't know what to think.I just think you are letting your dislike of Myers get in the way.

I have worked with charities and am interested in the area. Why not.

Nodin

CDfm wrote: »

I don't know what to think. .

Yet you posted

The article will make me think twice before contributing to any health service charity

Not very "I don't know what to think".

CDfm wrote: »

So I don't know what to think.I just think you are letting your dislike of Myers get in the way.

No, I'm letting the fact of a dubious sources proven dubious reliability guide my judgement with regards to his pronouncements.

CDfm

Nodin wrote: »

Yet you posted



Not very "I don't know what to think".

It created doubt.

No, I'm letting the fact of a dubious sources proven dubious reliability guide my judgement with regards to his pronouncements.

You have said the HSE have not denied it and I did not know that.

The Indo is a fairly reputable newspaper, Fourth Estate and all that, and journo's generally need some facts before publishers publish.

I am more interested in the ethics of charity collection and that the money goes where it is intended to go.

I thought thats where the thread was going.