Side Extension Build - Neighbour won't allow access

ravydavygravy

Hi guys,

Looking for some advice or views on our current problem. We had decided to look into getting a two-story extension built on the side of our two-bed end of terrace, basically building over our existing driveway, right up to the boundary with our neighbours (but inside the boundary fence)

A friend did up plans, and we approached the neighbours (whom we got on well with) to get their view and to broach the topic of access for portions of the build. To our suprise, they have decided that they don't want to facilitate us, since they want to sell their house next year and are concerned that the extension runs too close to their property (Currently they are ~13m from our gable, this would bring the new gable to the boundary, roughly 10m from their property) and that this might hurt their sale. We offered all sorts of things (choice of finish, input on design, money for their troubles, etc) but they weren't interested.

So, we are a bit stumped - we'd like to proceed to planning application, but the neighbours have basically told us they won't give written permission for access and hence the planning won't go through.

Does anyone have any ideas or advice - so far, all I can think of:

1) Figure out some way to build it from the inside out (without requiring access to their land for scaffolding) - not sure how feasible this is.

2) Some older threads mentioned obtaining work orders under section 45 of the Land and Conveyancing Law Reform Act 2009 to force the neighbour to grant reasonable access - I'm not sure if this extends to building extensions however, or if it only applies to work on existing structures.

Are we boned? Or is there another way?

Dave

sinnerboy

It is possible but awkward to build "over" i.e. stay on your side and build the wall.

I had this problem or rather a client of mine did . So the wall was built to the boundary line but was built without access to the other side . The wall was "left" as a fair faced concrete wall . It stayed so for about 2 years untill the adjoining owner eventually relented and allowed access to render and paint the wall from his side .

It takes all sorts ....

Del2005

If your building to the boundary then you'll be 0m from their property and 10m from their house. Not much you can do as forcing access is only going to lead to bad blood and with the current housing market they'll blame you for their house not making what they think it's worth. You may be better off waiting till they move before doing anything. Then approach the new owners.

antiskeptic

sinnerboy wrote: »

It is possible but awkward to build "over" i.e. stay on your side and build the wall.

I had this problem or rather a client of mine did . So the wall was built to the boundary line but was built without access to the other side . The wall was "left" as a fair faced concrete wall . It stayed so for about 2 years untill the adjoining owner eventually relented and allowed access to render and paint the wall from his side .

It takes all sorts ....

Couldn't the sidewall be built of brick? Then it would look fine. I'd imagine the foundation foot couldn't cross the boundary meaning the wall itself would be set back from the boundary a number of inches - allowing space between wall and boundary for mortar to fall/be removed during the bricklaying

sinnerboy

antiskeptic wrote: »

Couldn't the sidewall be built of brick?

Depends on the context . It would not have harmonized in the case I mentioned but it may suit the OP's case alright .

Mellor

antiskeptic wrote: »

Couldn't the sidewall be built of brick? Then it would look fine. I'd imagine the foundation foot couldn't cross the boundary meaning the wall itself would be set back from the boundary a number of inches - allowing space between wall and boundary for mortar to fall/be removed during the bricklaying

You just need to use a non standard footing. The one to watch is actuakky the eaves/barge which ofter crosses.

OP, you don't need access to get planning.
You don't need access to build.
Explain to your neighbour that you are going ahead anyway and that ultimately they are not require to give premission. They are welcome to object.

paddy147

Just inform your neighbour that you too,have the right to build your extension and were only being nice and friendly in asking them,But that you are still proceeding,with or without their consent.

But I rekon your neighbour might lodge an objection (just out of spite) to slow up your planning application,and when they see your planning notice up in your garden.

But fcuk them though,your extension to your house is just as important to you as their potential or "supposed" future house sale is to them.

You have rights too,mainly your right to build/extend on your property..

I bet you they are just silly auld begrudgers and jealous of you.;)

Mellor

paddy147 wrote: »

But I rekon your neighbour might lodge an objection (just out of spite) to slow up your planning application,and when they see your planning notice up in your garden.

not sure how familar you are with the planning process, but an objection doesn't add any time to the decision. The LA still have 8 weeks with or without objections, large matters might force FI, but not for a domestic extension, plus superficial objections like the above are quickly dismissed.

meglome

An idea might be to tell them you'll be going ahead with 'Phase1' and leaving it unfinished for a bit (insert made up reason). Maybe just dig the foundations and leave them. Whatever will make it worse than you actually building it and completing it (throw some old furniture onto a pile by the trenches). If they want to be silly about it I say two can play that game.

Or just do a brick finish and clean and point as you go up.

ravydavygravy

Thanks for the advice guys - the finish will most likely be brick anyway, thats what all the houses in the estate are like. I'll talk again to the guy who did up the plans and see what he thinks about building from one side.

Regarding the written consent for planning, a nice girl from the county planning office told us the opposite - that the neighbours would be required to give consent before planning would proceed - but maybe this was on the basis of us building from the other side (this call was made before this malarky started, and we foolishly assumed that our nice neighbours would be accomodating)

sinnerboy

ravydavygravy wrote: »

a nice girl from the county planning office told us the opposite - that the neighbours would be required to give consent before planning would proceed

Terrible advice . It's incredible how often LA officials do this .

sinnerboy

meglome wrote: »

An idea might be to tell them you'll be going ahead with 'Phase1' and leaving it unfinished for a bit (insert made up reason). Maybe just dig the foundations and leave them. Whatever will make it worse than you actually building it and completing it (throw some old furniture onto a pile by the trenches). If they want to be silly about it I say two can play that game.

OK folks - please post responsibly don't promote bad behavior .

Dempo1

Seems to me the OP is on a loosing streak here. Not withstanding the access issue, the neighbors have made it clear they are not happy with the over all proposal, this in turn will most likely lead to an objection to planning permission and whilst not guaranteed to be succeed, the entire process is going to be delayed. As it is, the OP could be looking at 6 months minimum. Given the neighbors have mentioned they are likely to try and sell (good luck to them in this current market), perhaps the OP is better to wait. This all said if the OP decides to proceed with the current tensions from the neighbours, I fear the OP is in for months if not years of heartache.

sinnerboy

People can behave very badly . Another client of mine accommodated the neighbors with access including scaffold erection on his side . 12 months later using the same builder - initially they would not return the favor . Sometimes you need to assertive ( not confrontational ) . A polite but frank reminder of recent history won the day for my client .

meglome

sinnerboy wrote: »

OK folks - please post responsibly don't promote bad behavior .

To be fair here that house could be on the market for years the way the market is. So if the neighbour won't see the issue clearly in a reasonable way then he may need to be nudged in the right direction.

sinnerboy

meglome wrote: »

To be fair here that house could be on the market for years the way the market is. So if the neighbour won't see the issue clearly in a reasonable way then he may need to be nudged in the right direction.

Please take heed and avoid a ban . Don't edit a post which is the subject of mod instruction .

Thread temp locked - for your sake .

ravydavygravy

Again thanks for all the replies. We have no wish to screw over our neighbours or force their hand - not our style.

We spoke to the builders and county planners again, and the concensus was that it can be constructed entirely from our side, and that we should proceed with the planning application. If the neighbours wish to object, thats their choice - we are in no rush (even if we got the planning, we still need to find funds, etc...). At the end of the day, we won't want or need their consent.

I'll let ye know how we get on in due course...

paddy147

ravydavygravy wrote: »

Again thanks for all the replies. We have no wish to screw over our neighbours or force their hand - not our style.

We spoke to the builders and county planners again, and the concensus was that it can be constructed entirely from our side, and that we should proceed with the planning application. If the neighbours wish to object, thats their choice - we are in no rush (even if we got the planning, we still need to find funds, etc...). At the end of the day, we won't want or need their consent.

I'll let ye know how we get on in due course...

Fair play to you.:)

Dont ever let a neighbour put you off what you want to do with your property.;)

Building costs are at an all time low now,so if you can do it soon,it willbe well worth it financially.Trust me on that.

meglome

sinnerboy wrote: »

Please take heed and avoid a ban . Don't edit a post which is the subject of mod instruction .

Thread temp locked - for your sake .

Sorry at no point did I promote bad behaviour, I disagree with your interpretation of what I suggested. What I was promoting was showing their neighbour they were serious about continuing whether he helped out not. This might involve a little game playing to help the neighbour see he'd be better supporting the extension. Aside from supporting the extension being the right thing to do. I added the other suggestion to be more helpful, before I noticed you had an issue with the post. Maybe you should take a less heavy handed approach.

Poor Uncle Tom

Please keep this thread on-topic or it will be closed permanently.

mickdw

Those neighbours have a cheek really. Thinking they can dictate to you on your own property. Fair enough if you were going to build something out of keeping with the properties around or creating excessive shade on their house or whatever but refusing to let someone in to build a wall.
I would personally keep the extension marginally inside the boundary to avoid any issues.
To think you offered them money too - They should have taken it. Ha ha. Good to hear you are going ahead. I would make it clear to neighbour that you are now proceeding to planning stage, will construct the extension with or without access but would prefer to keep things friendly etc.
If they do object, they can then further appeal and hold you up though.

harry21

ravydavygravy wrote: »

Again thanks for all the replies. We have no wish to screw over our neighbours or force their hand - not our style.

We spoke to the builders and county planners again, and the concensus was that it can be constructed entirely from our side, and that we should proceed with the planning application. If the neighbours wish to object, thats their choice - we are in no rush (even if we got the planning, we still need to find funds, etc...). At the end of the day, we won't want or need their consent.

I'll let ye know how we get on in due course...

Here is my two cents on the matter.

1. You do not need your neighbours permission for the planning, if the LA asks, tell them to show your where it says so!

2. I also know of cases where the wall on the neighbours side was left unfinished because access was refused. Most reasonable people will allow access after the see it, and to be fair I think your neighbours are probably reasonable but mis-informed.

3. An extension to your house will be a postive selling point for the neighbours. Do they not see this. Any buyer would be delight to know of future potential for their propoerty.

4. You no longer object to a development, you can only submit your observations.

5. make sure you do keep the foundations, the facia and gutters (if applicable) on your side of the boundary to avoid future issues.

Best of luck!

ravydavygravy

Just to close this thread off completly, we were awarded planning a few weeks ago, after one small request from the council to adjust the rear wall as proposed - they never brought up anything about the multi-point submission made by our neighbour.

FYI - as expected - a few days after our planning came through, there was a "for sale" sign up in the neighbours front garden. We were waiting to see if an appeal was going to go in over the last few wekks, but nothing arose.

So basically - if you have a neighbour objecting to your plans, and you feel that the objections are unreasonable, stick to your guns and let the council decide. At the end of the day, thats all that matters.

AckwelFoley

Happy things worked out.

Good luck to the neighbou getting 2 euro for the house in this market - nobody is buying.


I wouldnt object to anyone unless they were trying to build on my property! My only issue with access would be with accidents and liability

harry21

Congratulations....:D