Old style lightbulbs = home heaters

WhodahWoodah

I'm having a debate with a friend who is telling me that you can now buy the old style lightbulbs (that light up immediately when you press the switch as opposed to taking 5 mins to gradually light up) on the internet from some dude who is selling them as home heating bulbs to get around the law.

My opinion is that while this might get HIM around the law for selling them, and ME around the law for buying them, it would be worth nothing if I were to put one of them into a light fitting and use it for light. She reckons that if you officially bought it as a home heater and plugged it into a light fitting you could still claim that you were using it as a home heater. I think that's a load of bull and don't really get why she wants to anyway.

I only ask because we live in the same house, which she owns, and although the chances of getting any legal crap from this are minute for either of us I still think it's a silly thing to do.

Yes it's annoying that the energy saver bulbs take ages to light up fully, but they do save on power and you'd think that someone who turns off the telly at the switch to save power would be happy about that!

But anyway, my question is, if you buy a "Home Heating Bulb" from the internet and plug it into a light fitting, does it not become a "Light Bulb"?

Cabaal

CFL bulbs ahve come a long way in a few short years.
Most start at around 70% light and increase to 100% in around 1min.

In relation to what your friend is saying a quick google search finds
http://www.mnn.com/earth-matters/energy/blogs/skirting-eu-law-the-rebranding-of-incandescent-bulbs-as-heat-balls

You gotta hand it to German businessman Siegfried Rotthaeuser, who came up with a brilliant run around the European Union ban on conventional incandescent light bulbs- he rebranded them as "Heat Balls" and is importing them for sale as a "small heating device".

Rotthaeuser's website is in German but Google does a passable job of translation. First, he's very clear that the Heat Ball isn't for lighting, stating (in German, the following is translated) "A HEAT BALL ® is not a lamp, but it fits in the same version!"

Further down: "The use of Heat Balls avoids the lack of heat. The intended use of heat Balls is the heating. "

The funny thing about this is that incandescent bulbs are fairly efficient when they are used as heaters, throwing off around 95% of the energy they draw as heat. In colder climates, using the bulbs for lighting isn't always an inefficient choice as the bulbs add to the warmth of the home.

The problem is that people will buy Heat Balls primarily as a way around the ban on incandescent bulbs. Rotthaeuser's Heat Balls could end up really taking off in a market starved for the familiar warmth of the incandescent bulb.

The solution to this problem is a better lightbulb. We need LEDs and CFL bulbs that offer good light in an inexpensive package. We're getting there but are still more than a few more cycles of R&D away.

In the meantime, if you live in Germany and are jonesing for an incandescent, take a look at the Heat Ball.

Expect the loop hole to be closed shortly, also given many companys won't be making the older bulbs anymore supply could be a issue.

dotsman

WhodahWoodah wrote: »

I'm having a debate with a friend who is telling me that you can now buy the old style lightbulbs (that light up immediately when you press the switch as opposed to taking 5 mins to gradually light up) on the internet from some dude who is selling them as home heating bulbs to get around the law.

My opinion is that while this might get HIM around the law for selling them, and ME around the law for buying them, it would be worth nothing if I were to put one of them into a light fitting and use it for light. She reckons that if you officially bought it as a home heater and plugged it into a light fitting you could still claim that you were using it as a home heater. I think that's a load of bull and don't really get why she wants to anyway.

I only ask because we live in the same house, which she owns, and although the chances of getting any legal crap from this are minute for either of us I still think it's a silly thing to do.

Yes it's annoying that the energy saver bulbs take ages to light up fully, but they do save on power and you'd think that someone who turns off the telly at the switch to save power would be happy about that!

But anyway, my question is, if you buy a "Home Heating Bulb" from the internet and plug it into a light fitting, does it not become a "Light Bulb"?

If the purpose for you switching it on is to illuminate the room, then I would say it is a light bulb.

Why would anyone want to buy these things? CFL's are infinitely better. The only thing I noticed when I switched to them is that my electricity bills became lower.

ejmaztec

Before the first cfl bulb ever made the light of day:pac:, some old guy was telling me that, when he was a student in the 60s, they were using lightbulbs to supplement the heating in flats, where the coin-slot meter was too thirsty. They extended the cord and hung the bulb inside a biscuit-tin.

Zab

I think you should use the CFLs because there are too many positives to ignore.

That said, I'm pretty sure everything I've read has referred to the sale being banned rather than the use. If the two were identical in every way other than their current legal status then I'd say your friend is clearly right and there's no way anything would come of it. I reality, I think the ban is just and people should just go with it, even if they're slightly put out.

dudara

Not a Consumer Issue - Moved to the Electrical forum

dudara

arse..biscuits

WhodahWoodah wrote: »

But anyway, my question is, if you buy a "Home Heating Bulb" from the internet and plug it into a light fitting, does it not become a "Light Bulb"?

I suppose it's similar to what went on in the head shops. They sold plant food, but if anyone decided to eat/smoke this substance that was nothing to do with the seller.

The device gives off heat and therefore could be considered a heater. A side effect is that it's bright.

I live in a small well insulated apartment and we very rarely need heating. Sometimes when its a little cold, turning on the lights is enough to heat up the apartment.

Although CFL's have may advantages, their quality of light isn't as good as GLS lamps.

Bruthal

arse..biscuits wrote: »

I suppose it's similar to what went on in the head shops. They sold plant food, but if anyone decided to eat/smoke this substance that was nothing to do with the seller.

The device gives off heat and therefore could be considered a heater. A side effect is that it's bright.

I live in a small well insulated apartment and we very rarely need heating. Sometimes when its a little cold, turning on the lights is enough to heat up the apartment.

Although CFL's have may advantages, their quality of light isn't as good as GLS lamps.

Well get 100 watts of cfl lamps and you will have your 100 watts of heat out of them and the equivelant of 500 watts of incandescent bulbs:D

Zab

robbie7730 wrote: »

Well get 100 watts of cfl lamps and you will have your 100 watts of heat out of them and the equivelant of 500 watts of incandescent bulbs:D

Surely CFLs produce less heat per input watt

Bruthal

Zab wrote: »

Surely CFLs produce less heat per input watt

They do, my post says get 100 watts of cfl`s, as in 5 x 20 watt cfls,
which will produce the equivelant of 5 x 100 watt incandescent bulbs but use 100 watts of electricity, so will produce close enough to the same heat as 1 x 100 watt incandescent bulb which produces the equivelant light of a 100 watt incandescent bulb. I was just jokin but still.

danjo

Not such a novel idea. The old incandescent bulbs were used for many years as heaters to prevent pipes from freezing in attics.

arse..biscuits

robbie7730 wrote: »

Well get 100 watts of cfl lamps and you will have your 100 watts of heat out of them and the equivelant of 500 watts of incandescent bulbs:D

Thats another way to do it alright. However walking into that room would be like the Chilean miners seeing daylight again:)

Bruthal

arse..biscuits wrote: »

Thats another way to do it alright. However walking into that room would be like the Chilean miners seeing daylight again:)

Yes thats perfectly true i think,, it would be the tanning room:D

Bruthal

dotsman wrote: »

If the purpose for you switching it on is to illuminate the room, then I would say it is a light bulb.

Why would anyone want to buy these things? CFL's are infinitely better. The only thing I noticed when I switched to them is that my electricity bills became lower.

Yea 100%. Even of you have to wait a minute or 2 for full output especially if room is very cold,, i cant imagine why you would want incandescents which use 5 times the power. I have been using them now about 5 years and no bulb changes in that time either.

WhodahWoodah

OP Here. Just wanted to clarify - I DON'T think we should be using the old style bulbs. Although I have a feeling the CFLs here in this house might be a few years old so maybe that's why they're so slow to light up - probably very first generation models. Might replace 1 or 2 and see if that makes a difference, and if it does I might replace the lot.

The debate was just about theoretically whether you could actually get away with buying the German fella's bulbs and then plugging them into the light fitting in your ceiling. I think once you did that you couldn't argue that they were heaters - I've never seen a radiator on the ceiling! And especially if you had no other source of light in the room. She reckons that in theory if the CFL Bulb Gestapo were to arrive on your doorstep (which we both realise is never going to happen anyway, but if they did...) that they couldn't say anything to you once you produced your home heating bulb receipt. I think they'd use common sense, judge that you're using them as lightbulbs and call bullsh*t on you! Bit of a pedantic debate I know but...there it is!

Bruthal

I dont think its going to be illegal anytime soon to use incandescent bulbs, or to buy them, only to sell them.

Stoner

As mentioned above, CFL lamps have come on a lot, the recessed lamps are still slow, but for example, I recently bought three pig tail style CFL lamps for the centre light in my living room, IMO the seem to output about 80 or 90% straight away, not like the old CFLS that needed to heat up.

BostonB

I think the light from the new bulbs just isn't as bright or perhaps white as the old bulbs.

Do you really see a difference on your elecky bill. I find that hard to believe its that noticeable.

eminoz

Thanks for the advice on how to continue to get incandescent lightbulbs. But before I get a jibe from converts to the new ones, hang on a sec...I and many others know how to switch off lights when not in use. That saves lots of energy. (This could get as dangerously un-PC as commenting on the smoking ban!)

This outright ban is dumb and paternalistic. Saving energy is good, of course. Wasting it is bad, but why not ban more energy-intensive devices first? What about all the other devices gobbling electricity while you’re sitting there in the cold dull light of a cfl; feeling warm and virtuous while your laptop and mobile are charging up, your partner or the kids are on their game consoles, the dinner is in the oven, the washing is on (tumble dryer so convenient in winter) etc etc. Fair enough, make offices, commercial premises convert, but what about, say, old houses where form and colour really matters?

Isn’t the poor innocent old lightbulb getting an unfair press? The new bulbs give a cold light, are ugly and are still dead slow to fully light up. Whatever you say, and whatever improvements are coming, this is not changing fast enough. Coming in the front door is more like entering a funeral parlour than the warm welcome we used to have.

Light is all about colour. I want the sitting room to have a cosy feel. Incandescent bulbs give a warm cheery light (not just heat): it’s on the warm end of the light spectrum, and makes colours in the room glow. I’ve tried loads of CFLs – the light is cold - blue-greyish; e.g. a warm yellow looks dull in that light– people look sick!!

So far, fine, if colour doesn’t matter to you, but it does to me. Lots of people don’t understand colour and light as would, say, an artist or designer. (I’m not either) It’s not a big thing in the Irish education system. That’s why so many lack confidence when doing home decoration – we don’t really understand why things just don’t look as well as before...

Then, too, it’s about the clumpy, bulky bulbs. How are they supposed to fit into older houses? I’ve a coach lamp with three 25watt clear candle bulbs (not excessive). It’s lovely, the bulbs twinkle like candles; I love coming home to it – and it gets switched off when I’m not in the hallway, Why am I being forced to add lumpy white bulbs into this fitting? (doubt they’ll fit anyway). We’re being forced to wreck the look of these lights, or throw out perfectly good and old fittings! Why can't we use our judgement????

The time the new bulbs take to warm up.... yawn. I installed brand new tracks in one room a few months ago – the electrician commented that they were the best bulbs. I’ll have to throw the lot out – I couldn’t find my nose in the gloom – I’m incandescent! (the only one in the country, it appears)

Maybe some versions are improving, but please don’t experiment on me. Each bulb costs an arm and a leg, only to find that nah, it’s not good, there’s a better one, etc. So are we to throw away our expensive mistakes? That’s a waste too, in any terms

Finally, I heard (any views?) that these lights should be left on more, that switching them on and off shortens their lifespan. Surely then this whole switchover is counter-intuitive? We could end up using more electricity in the long term.
Please let me wake up and find that this was just a horrible dream ( but if the house is being burgled, I won't bother with the light switch)
Now how's my tourist german?

BostonB

The new bulbs are gloomy

+1

crossmolinalad

i hate those energy savers
got pain in my eyes and head from them
u need sun glasses with them
Have removed them all and bought plenty of old fashioned light-bulbs
enough for another 30 years
dont need to do it for energy savings
my bill is just 75 euros be monthly

M cebee

ye must be using the wrong bulbs lads:)

there is no need to be using incandescent these days

Bruthal

Id say there was a time when 1 or 2 would of hated electric lighting, and went back to the oil lamps.

M cebee

yes-i'm afraid these lads are behind the times:)

BostonB

I guess we're meant to keep changing bulbs till the latest thing, does actually work as advertised.

:rolleyes:

John_Cultane

There is no doubt the new bulbs give off a different colour rendering. To deny this is just a bit silly. It is a known fact! It is actually possible that saving in electricity may be lost in costs to peoples' health.

The CFC bulbs have improved but have disadvantages strong arming people into them is probably a good idea but still irritating considering they are not practical everywhere or fit for purpose.

BostonB

What brand/model 75w and 100w equivalent would people recommend?

Bruthal

John_Cultane wrote: »

There is no doubt the new bulbs give off a different colour rendering. To deny this is just a bit silly. It is a known fact! It is actually possible that saving in electricity may be lost in costs to peoples' health.

Yes after everyone stops smokin, never drinks, eats perfect foods, stops sitting in flourescent tube lighting in offices, stops ever going out in the sun, sittin in front of pc screens, then we could look at the health benefits of incandescent bulbs:D

BostonB

You might be sarcastic about it. But I for one can't work under some of these CFC's. I get a blinding headache after a short time. I only have them on the landing. and the kitchen. Places where I'm not in very much, and don't do any reading etc. Maybe I should stop using them till everyone cycles to work, gets solar panels in, and harvests their rainwater.

Bruthal

BostonB wrote: »

You might be sarcastic about it. But I for one can't work under some of these CFC's. I get a blinding headache after a short time. I only have them on the landing. and the kitchen. Places where I'm not in very much, and don't do any reading etc. Maybe I should stop using them till everyone cycles to work, gets solar panels in, and harvests their rainwater.

Yes the way this place is goin that might not be far off. I do know a few that say that reading etc with them is harder alright so there might be something in it alright.

the watchman

Energy saving bulbs?
Here's my story. About 3/4 years ago I said to myself 'Watchy boy its time to get green'. So I went out to buy some of these energy efficient bulbs. Went into Guineys, yes, I said Guineys lol and couldn't believe the cheap price. I was over the moon.
Excited I ran home and straight away stuck one in the kitchen and switched on.....:eek::eek::eek::eek: Absolutely awful. After taking two years to get to full light power:D my recently decorated beautiful terracotta kitchen had changed colour to a cold eerie blue grey hue colour...yuk! . I was distraught when I remembered that these were going to be mandatory soon.
I immediately gathered them all up and gave them to my neighbour and since then I continued to use the old ones.

Heres the good news.

In more recent times I tried again and went out and bought another energy efficient bulb, this time a brand name 'phillips' costing the me my arm and leg, very difficult now to put them in ballancing on the chair with one leg:D, sorry. Anyway, thank God they are now improved. Acceptably fast to light up and doesn't change the colour of the decor.
So thats it all is now ok.
My only concern is, when in 55years time:D I need to change one will it be siezed in the lamp holder. I am about to start a new thread on this to get some thoughts...:pac:

Ghost Estate

the watchman wrote: »

Energy saving bulbs?


In more recent times I tried again and went out and bought another energy efficient bulb, this time a brand name 'phillips' costing the me my arm and leg, very difficult now to put them in ballancing on the chair with one leg:D, sorry. Anyway, thank God they are now improved. Acceptably fast to light up and doesn't change the colour of the decor.
So thats it all is now ok.
My only concern is, when in 55years time:D I need to change one will it be siezed in the lamp holder. I am about to start a new thread on this to get some thoughts...:pac:

Philips LED bulbs? these are truly excellent and one of very few worthwhile energy saving bulbs.

There will always be some country where the old bulbs are still made. and you should always be able to get oven bulbs and modify a lamp to accept 2 or 3 of those cause no led or CFL will work at 250 C

bigjoe

Not all energy saving lamps are CFLs. You can get halogen lamps that light up much the same as incandescent lamps (straight away) and are 30% energy saving. They also look much the same as a standard lamp but are only available now clear. A 42watt is equivalent to a 60W or a 70w equivalent to a 100w incandescent. Osram and Philips make these and should be available from any good wholesaler.

Like most other things you get what you pay for, there are many brands and quality lamps on the market but my advice is stick to Philips, Osram or GE and you should get far superior light output.