Rotax Max Kart

danh789

Hi Guys,
I'm looking to buy a Rotax Max Kart to race next year. I have been checking the DoneDeal and the Irish Karting Website for karts for sale. Is there anywhere I should be looking that they'd be advertised? Also the last entry on the Irish Kart Buy and Sell section was over a month ago. How often is it updated?

Any help is appricated!

se conman

The karting buy and sell site would be very quite as most things would have been advertised at the end of last season.There would be very little added till mid season when people start running out of money.

SouperComputer

Granted I haven't bought or raced a kart in Ireland in over a decade, but you are on the right track with irishkarting.com. Call some of the dealers listed there too: brennans, cobys, kart-e-quip, murray motorsport might have something, if they dont they will probably know of someone that will. You could "like" irishkarting.com on facebook and maybe put a wanted post on their wall too I guess. As the season draws to a close you will see more getting posted im sure. If you are willing to travel, good deals can be had in the UK too: www.karting.co.uk

If you need any pointers on what to look for let me know... Any of the bigger makes of chassis are fine, CRG, Gillard, Wildkart, Tonykart, Swiss Hutless, Kosmic theres loads. The important thing is that its straight and in good condition. Good tip someone gave me I was buying my first kart was not to get too hung up haggling on price, but rather focus on getting good spares such as sprockets chains, tyres, rims etc. The costs of these add up! Also if someone is able to help run you for a day thats worth a lot too!

Timmaay

I've been on the lookout for something also, I would rather a TKM to just practice on for now, but they are hard to come by so I might have to settle for a max. Gumtree is good also for 2nd hand karts (both the dublin and belfast versions), Also check out Ulsterkarting

I've been keeping an eye on Ukkarting also, and there does seem to be better value over there, esp now that the sterling is back close to 90p to the euro, but its hard to justify a trip over when the ferry will set you back 200 or so and you don't know if you will defo buy the kart.

danh789

Thanks for the feedback guys. Going to try a look at a few karts over the next few weeks. Whats the best way to tell if a kart is fast without getting it out on the track? Also, does age really matter?

SouperComputer

danh789 wrote: »

Thanks for the feedback guys. Going to try a look at a few karts over the next few weeks. Whats the best way to tell if a kart is fast without getting it out on the track? Also, does age really matter?

What do you mean by fast? Do you mean competitive? Recent proven results are nice, but hard to prove them .. Just make sure you get the log book for the engine and thats its still sealed. If thats done the engine will be decent. Don't bother with a max without a log book, seal and a documented history if you plan racing it.

Age doesn't matter if you are having fun . Seriously though physical fitness is more important. 3.5G in the corners is hard on the body. You'll need good cardio as well as strong neck, upper back, forearm and core muscles if you want to be competitive. Working out in the gym helps, but its still not a substitute for seat time. I'm 30s and the drivers I race against range from 16 to 70. Theres slow and fast people in all age groups. Theres some slow teens, fast teens, slow older guys and fast older guys. The oldest "fast" guys are in their mid 50's.

Heres a few things to check when looking at the kart, how in-depth you want to go is up to you:

* Check entire chassis frame for cracks or welds. Welds on seat brackets are common, it's nice to have one without, but no panic if it does.
* Check floor tray for cracks or bowing (bowing can be result of shunt)
* Look for excessive wear\grinding on the underneath of the frame. If theres a lot in the centre chassis might be getting tired and sagging. Some wear is not unusual, but if there is a lot of wear thats more than 1CM wide on the tubing I'd keep looking.
* Wear on the bottom of the seat is pretty normal, don't worry about it.
* Check the brakes work grab nice, return nice and dont leak
* Spin the rear axle, look for "wobbly wheels" (bent axle) and listen for nasty grinding rear bearings.
* Grab one of the front wheels, gently move the steering wheel left and right, check for play in the rose joints, steering wheel or steering shaft boss.
* Grab top and bottom of front wheel, try to rock it. Any movement here means it needs kingpins and or kingpin bearings
*Rotate the kingpins, there should be no noticeable movement in the wheel or axle when doing this.
*Do the same with the other front wheel (check steering play and kingpin).
* Pull steering wheel up and down in line with the column, there should be minimal longitudinal play.
*Measure the chassis from rear axle to kingpin on both sides, reading should be the same.
*Measure chassis from rear axle on one side to king pin on the other, again, they should be the same.
*Put the kart on level ground. With all tyres same size\pressure, raise the front by hand and and lower it back down slowly. Both front wheels should hit the ground at about the same time.

danh789

Thanks SouperComputer. Plently of things there that I'd never have thought of looking for! Yeah its a competitive kart I'm after, I hope to race in the Championship next year. I'm interested in a kart at the minute and its a '03. This was putting me off slightly as I thought it might be too old. Also I'm told there is 9 hours on the engine but is there any way of knowing for sure what hours a kart has done?

SouperComputer

danh789 wrote: »

Thanks SouperComputer. Plently of things there that I'd never have thought of looking for! Yeah its a competitive kart I'm after, I hope to race in the Championship next year. I'm interested in a kart at the minute and its a '03. This was putting me off slightly as I thought it might be too old. Also I'm told there is 9 hours on the engine but is there any way of knowing for sure what hours a kart has done?

What chassis is it? Theres no way of verifying really, at then end of the day its down to the condition of the kart. You could have a pristine '02 and then have a '10 with two races on it in rag order. Stick to the checks above and budget on having the engine rebuilt before the season starts and you'll be fine. My "practice" chassis is an 02 TonyKart Mitox, but I went though it and had it put on a flat plate over the winter to make sure its 100% dead-on. New bearings, kingpins bolts and all sorts of stuff. I did some back-to-back testing with one of my team's '10 WildKart Warriors and it was nip and tuck to be honest. At a big event I'd take my WK for sure, but the Tony would be able to make a valiant effort.

Chassis haven't change a huge amount in the last decade or so. Some things like 10mm kingpins (as opposed to 8) with caster/camber adjustment, extended front hubs, torsion bars front and rear and 25mm rather than 17mm stub axles are nice to have with today's heavier slower karts like Max. 32mm frame is probably the way to go, or at least a 30/32 combo. Ask around on that though as I'm not even sure what tyres Max runs in Ireland these days. The grip level and weight have an influence on what size tubing you may run.

JohnP199

Apologies OP if I'm sort of hijacking your thread. Can anyone tell me where I could get stickers for a kart? Is there anywhere that makes them as my kart seem to have a unique sharp and I cant seem to find stickers to suit it!

Also, anyone able to recommend somewhere I could get a cheap kart suit?

SouperComputer

JohnP199 wrote: »

Apologies OP if I'm sort of hijacking your thread. Can anyone tell me where I could get stickers for a kart? Is there anywhere that makes them as my kart seem to have a unique sharp and I cant seem to find stickers to suit it!

Also, anyone able to recommend somewhere I could get a cheap kart suit?

What kart do you have? If it is\was being raced the bodywork should have a homologation stamp on it somewhere that could help you find out what stickers you need. Probably set you back 100euro though for the stickers though!

For your suit, throw a wanted ad on irishkarting.com, karting.co.uk or have a look on eBay. Make sure its a karting suit, not a car one. Car suits are not designed for abrasion resistance therefore are generally not allowed in karting. Except in messed up america where I could race in jeans and shoes if I wanted, but I have to wear a pointless neck collar and I can run a narrow rear bumper.....

danh789

Bought a Kart! Got a 2005 Tony Kart. Seems like an ideal kart for a beginner, very kart and in good condition. Anyway, now I need all the race gear. I've had a look at some of the Irish stores but I was wondering is there anywhere I could get racewear for cheaper?

KylieWyley

Congrats OP.

Interesting thread. I've always been interested in getting into karting but the maintenance always seemed like a barrier to entry. How much upkeep do these things take (i see someone mentioned re-building an engine) and would it be possible to do it all yourself, especially if you're like me and no hands-on mechanical experience?

BoB_DoG

Hi KylieWyley,

Maintenance for the rotax max isn't too bad. SouperComputer will probably know more about it but I basically clean the Carb, airbox, power valve after every track day. Clean dirt and grease off the chassis and check for loose nuts, cracks etc. I change the gear oil every 5-6 track days. Check alignment too but thats more for set-up. Keep an eye on chain tension and keep it sprayed with oil. Make sure battery is fully charged, as its a total loss system (no way of charging itself while running). Be careful with fueling too as it wont run properly with too much oil and may seize with too little.

My friend who got me into it knew alot about them and showed me everything I needed but if you could get the guy you buy it off to run you for a day of testing, you'll learn everything you need to get you going.

I've been on track probably 15 times since Summer 09 (Roscrea and Longford) and 06 Rotax Max has started 1st time, every time. Chassis is Trulli. All the stuff mentioned above is simple. As for re-building, the Rotax max is a sealed engine and as such only licensed re-builders can do it. Haven't had it done yet but it'll be about €500-700. I think you've to get it done every 25 hours (alot longer than it sounds) to maintain top performance. My friend I mentioned above re-built a max himself but he's a fitter and so knew what he was doing. Wouldn't attempt re-building unless you work in that area, and anyway you won't be allowed to run in the national championship without a seal.

Hope this helps, ask around for more info cause there are way more knowledgeable people out there than me! Good luck

SouperComputer

I don't have a lot of Max-specific info to be honest. I tested one and raced one once about a decade ago and that was enough. Hated it TBH, gutless engine but coming from an FA its was going to be a letdown. There's no doubting its popularity though and the competition is great.

Maintenance wise, you can scab used tyres off people or from bins if you have to to keep going, as you get competitive then youi will want new rubber. Otherwise just keep and eye on your chains, clutch sprockets etc. each year you might go and replace your axle bearings and track rod ends but if you stay off dirt they can last for years.

BoB_DoG

Well, bit silly comparing Formula A to a max in fairness. What the rotaxs lack in speed they make up for in closeness of racing, which is so much more important IMO.

Scabbing tires is a good idea, would save you €180 approx. Just go to any national meeting and you'll et a couple of sets no probs

SouperComputer

BoB_DoG wrote: »

Well, bit silly comparing Formula A to a max in fairness. What the rotaxs lack in speed they make up for in closeness of racing, which is so much more important IMO.

It wasnt too silly to compare the two in 1999/2000 which is what I'm talking about At the time there was talk of it replacing FA\100 Clubman which ultimately it did.

The overall speed of Max is very decent, its the power delivery thats horrid. But as we agreed, you cant argue with the competition. It's just not my cup of tea so I've been doing KZ. Besides, thats all the team I run with has and I dont ask questions when they give me an engine to run haha, I just bolt it on and go.

BoB_DoG

Ya its a bit gutless down low alright. Been messing around with the PV and jets to try and improve it but its tricky..

Not familiar with KZ, whats that like? What level do you run at? Are you sponsored or is it your own money running the team? If I had a team giving me engines I wouldn't ask questions either!

SouperComputer

KZ is a 125 gearbox class you might know it as ICC. I usually run national\intl depending on where money is. I had planned running the supernationals in Vegas last year, but you are looking $5K before the wheels hit the ground and thats before engines and stuff. Both our road cars together braely cost $5k so I cant really justify it right now, another year maybe.

A lot of my tyres and engine type stuff has been sponsored or "donated" is probably a better way of putting it. Usually whatever I have to buy I get good prices on. That helps a lot, but by the time I pay for entry fees, accomodation and transport yadda yadda I'm down around 1K a weekend easy enough so I only race a couple of times a year. The only downside is that I'm the guniea pig for some of the engines and that doesnt always work out so well haha. But I still get to race for a lot less than it would if I was going it alone.

Down to a single income this year so not sure what I'll be doing racing wise. I'll leave the practice kart out at the local track and turn and burn a little I suppose, have some craic with the local folks and generally act the bollox .

I remember working at Edgeworthstown years ago when it first opened (99?). Hung out there for a couple of days, helped them out with some computer stuff, rebuilt some engines. Real nice people. Great track, too tight for MI's liking but I had some great craic there.

KylieWyley

I went along to a meeting there for the first time. Really enjoyed the setup, and looks like it could be a lot of fun.

I'm more inclined towards one of the 4-stroke classes - Biland (now Super4) or SuperPro. Though, the problem is there aren't many of them floating around for sale.

By contrast, if you do a search for a Rotax Max kart on any site like DoneDeal, there are loads of them. I'd be more than happy to buy one of these (they're race ready - chassis, engine, transponder, the works) but I don't know if I'd be competitive. Don't get me wrong, I don't expect to be right at the front as a newbie, but I'd like to know that if my skill improved, my kart would allow me to do this.

Essentially, what I want out of karting, is competitive racing on a level playing field. However, if I'm honest, I was kind of intimidated by the setup some of the Rotax guys had.. huge motor homes, sponsorships, and the talk of them hiring mechanics for a race weekend (is this true? :rolleyes:) I was told that to get to the competitive end of a class like Rotax, you need to spend lots (by comparison to the 4-stroke classes, for example). I understand karting is a motorsport, and any motorsport is going to cost you money, but I do have limits

If there's truth in this, then I'd be inclined to stay away from the readily available karts and hold out for a 4-stroke. Otherwise, I'd go for a Rotax purely because of the convenience that comes with ease of access to karts and parts (they're also faster too, and that's no bad thing )

BoB_DoG

For national level, I'm not really sure what you'd need to be competitive tbh, looks like alot of big bucks outfits alright. I would definitely get a Rotax Max anyway, they're easy to maintain, fast and loads of them around as you have seen. You can get a very good 07-08 kart for well under €2K.

If you wanted to give Rotax max racing a go but are worried about money, check out the midland karting championship in Edgeworthstown, Longford (http://www.midlandkarting.net/). Entry fees are €60 (practise, qualifying, 3 races), tires (which could last a whole season if you didn't mind drop-off in performance) are €120 per set, 2-Stroke oil is €15 per litre, petrol for the day €12-15. If you don't break anything during the year, all you'll need is some cleaners/fluids (carb, brake, degreaser, chain lube, loctite, gear oil) which you could get for around €60 and thats your costs. Depending on what you get with the kart, thats all you'd need to keep it running sweet. Very cheap compared to nationals and you'd be more competitive straight away. But Its up to you and what you want to get out of it I guess.

Theres a race on at Midlands this Sunday, qualifying usually starts around 10 and last race finishes around 13:30-14:00ish. Weather promised good, check it out if you can. They also run pro-karts (twin Honda engined karts, making around 13 Hp) in seperate races if your still mad for 4-strokes!

Forgot to say I'll be there, Orange chassis, white helmet, working out of the back of a lovely 06 Suzuki Liana, in Racing Beige colour and everything!

KylieWyley

Cheers for the info !

I had kinda stumbled across the Athboy + Edgeworthstown championships alright. They're completely separate to the Nationals, right? Do the same rules + regs re: transponders, sealed engines, need number, need trolley to get kart onto grid, etc. apply?

Sorry for all the questions - I just find I'm coming across conflicting information from different sites. E.g. http://www.athboykartingcentre.ie/ says the SuperPro class run there in their championship but the SuperPros are actually running in Nutts Corner this weekend.

I'll try to get along and check it out (provided the 30th party I'm at the night before isn't so mad that it prevents me driving up from Galway ! ). I really like the idea of 12 races, with cheaper entry than the national meetings.

Pity it's on the same weekend as a grand prix! Oh well, I guess you're bound to have a conflict the odd weekend here and there. Better to be racing than armchair racing !

BoB_DoG wrote: »

Forgot to say I'll be there, Orange chassis, white helmet, working out of the back of a lovely 06 Suzuki Liana, in Racing Beige colour and everything!

I'll take it you bring your kart around in a trailer, if you've a Liana? That's cool. I'll be sure to keep an eye out for you if I can make it!

BoB_DoG

Rules for Midlands are;
1) Every kart & driver must weigh 165Kg. They have a scales in the car park and the top 8 are weighed in after the race. If you don't weigh in or are underweight, no points. Some people (me included) bolt lead to the seat to help make the weight.

2) Must use Heidenau RKM tires (on sale at the track for €120). Heidenau Rain tires (€140 per set, but last for ages) are the only wet tires allowed. No points if you don't use them.

3) Sealed engines only. (There is no scruitineering (spelling?) in Longford unless your kart is much quicker. They would be much stricter in the nationals).

4) Best 10 results (out of 12) count for you total points.

5) Usual rules after that (no overtaking under yellow flag, blue flag means leaders are coming round so let them through etc, etc)

They use AMB Tranx160 transponders up there which you may get with the kart or they rent them for €5 per day at the track.
You can drive with any tires but they will start you from the back of the grid regardless of where you qualify so you don't get in the way of people fighting for points. I ran used Mojos that I got for free at national races for the 1st few races, which helped keep costs down even further.

Points are 10 for 1st, 8 for 2nd, 6 for 3rd, 5 for 4th etc down to 1 for 8th.

Not sure what the story is in Athboy, never been there. Think they carry 172 or 175 Kg? Would prob be similar to Midland anyway. Midland, Athboy and National are all separate championships.

You following the F1 GP or Moto Gp? I follow the bikes and I swear I've missed nearly every one this year because of karting! Much better to be out doing it yourself rather than watching the stars though, if you have the opportunity.


EDIT: Ya, I use a bike trailer with a sheet of timber bolted on to make a flat base. Tie strap down the kart, and all the gear fits in the car with the seats down. Room for 2 passengers.

KylieWyley

Awesome, thanks. That's been extremely helpful.

Renting transponders, no need to stay overnight, used tires rather than new ones every race or every other race . . .

That definitely seems far more accessible than the nationals. As I'm new starting off, it's only a bit of fun I'm after really.

'Tis the F1 I follow. But, I guess that's what the extended highlights shows are for