Has the original question been answered?

DeVore

I am not, for once, stirring it here

I have a few years of Kempo in my past and am now studying Muay Thai and enjoying it. I have great respect for all styles of MA. but one of the original questions that started mma was that of "most efficient style" (you can rephrase that in any non offensive manner you like). has that question been answered with MT and BJJ with some wrestling to assist the BJJ?

Can anyone point out a serious contender who doesn't study this combo? doesn't that make MMA a sort of "single art" which is simply a blend of the usual suspects?? Now certainly you can point to competitors who have no bjj or no mt skills to speak of but they would also be considered to have a hole in their game in that respect too.

It just occurred to me when in TUF Sevak said he had been learning Sambo (?) since he was 4 and I thought, Good luck using that in the octagon as it just won't be focused or efficient enough...

I would love to see really radical styles fighting but I dunno if we'll ever see anything to different from MT & BJJ again IMHO....

DeV.

Professey Chin

DeVore wrote: »

I am not, for once, stirring it here

I have a few years of Kempo in my past and am now studying Muay Thai and enjoying it. I have great respect for all styles of MA. but one of the original questions that started mma was that of "most efficient style" (you can rephrase that in any non offensive manner you like). has that question been answered with MT and BJJ with some wrestling to assist the BJJ?

Can anyone point out a serious contender who doesn't study this combo? doesn't that make MMA a sort of "single art" which is simply a blend of the usual suspects?? Now certainly you can point to competitors who have no bjj or no mt skills to speak of but they would also be considered to have a hole in their game in that respect too.

It just occurred to me when in TUF Sevak said he had been learning Sambo (?) since he was 4 and I thought, Good luck using that in the octagon as it just won't be focused or efficient enough...

I would love to see really radical styles fighting but I dunno if we'll ever see anything to different from MT & BJJ again IMHO....

DeV.

Russian martial art.Pretty similar to MMA in lots of ways.Studied by both Fedor and Arlovski among others

When it comes to other styles you could look at Machidas karate for example but the bases always need to be there really. Fighters will use other styles which could bring success but every style has a weakness which another opponent will exploit. We'll see different MAs go in and out the whole time but theyll always just have parts adapted like Judos without the gi instead of just being dominantly used

DeVore

Actually, since I first saw Machida, I've loved his style of fighting.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=58892823&postcount=18

I would love to see something like TKD being used by a high level proponent of the style. But you can't blame fighters for choosing what works and clearly 90%+ of them choose the standard combo of MT and BJJ. Which inexorably leads to the question in the thread title....

Btw, this is not an underhand attempt to diss anyones favourite style.... I'm sure if mma fights were done in street clothing, judo would make a BIG impact on the sport (and I for one would love to see competitions like that!) but it does seem like the "mixed" in mma is boiling down to MT and BJJ. Or am I wrong?

DeV

cowzerp

At the moment the most effective style is Boxing and wrestling together, BJJ and thai would have been the style used before this trend kicked in...

Chris Dowling

Is this question irrellivant? Is it not the fighter that makes the best use of the skills they have studied? Therefore the combination will be different to each.

Attreu

I would have said it's like rock, paper, scissors. It all depends on what your opponent's got as to what the most effective will be.

lawrencesummers

Chris Dowling wrote: »

Is this question irrellivant? Is it not the fighter that makes the best use of the skills they have studied? Therefore the combination will be different to each.

+1
its like rallying, its not the car its the driver 9 times out of 10.

And now the MA style doesnt matter, everyone is "cross training", some might have aspects that are stronger than other but any MMA champ would be able to hold their own at a high level of Boxing, Muay Thai, BJJ, Wrestling.

Kinda a pointless question, Chuck was a standup guy, but lots of ground skills, you cant fight MMA now at a good level without all the skills.

cowzerp

lawrencesummers wrote: »

but any MMA champ would be able to hold their own at a high level of Boxing, Muay Thai, BJJ, Wrestling.

Strongly disagree with this, most champs would probably be competitive at 1 of the ranges but certainly not in all ranges at an above average level-take Boxing as an example, Marcus davis Boxing stands out in MMA as been top range in MMA Boxing but as a boxer he was merely a jourmey man who fought nobodys, and quit as soon as he realised he had not got what it takes at a decent level. He's 1 of my favourite fighters so im not having a go.

lawrencesummers

two quick examples, take GSP's wrestling and schaub's boxing, they would be of a very high level at that and still take a lot of beating in bjj, muay thai etc etc.


its all relative to what you consider a high level to be, GSP was beaten quickly in the prelims / first round of an adcc qualifyer, getting to that i would consider a high level

calex71

Thing about coming from a base of wrestling / bjj or similar to MMA is that it can be a shock to the system being hit in the face vs coming for example boxing where thats the point, some fighters don't shake that "mental block" for want of a better expression of being hit in the face.

Maybe the MMA guys here can add to that? Is it some thing you see often with fighters who come from other less striking based MA's

calex71

DeVore wrote: »

I have a few years of Kempo

Ha me too Used to love all the forms and techniques, actually still remember loads of them I practiced them that much, can think of the few the mma guys could use if someone tried to take their back while standing . All the best stuff came after purple belt level

Hail 2 Da Thief

cowzerp wrote: »

At the moment the most effective style is Boxing and wrestling together, BJJ and thai would have been the style used before this trend kicked in...

Muay Thai is still very much in use by the top guys in MMA though.
Just look at Aldo, Overeem, Shogun etc.
All current champs & 3 of the best fighters around!

SBG Ireland

your personality will dictate what style you're drawn towards and then how it is trained will determine its effectiveness....if you're naming individual arts then you really dont get it....

the 5-7yr olds starting mma now will look back at these conversations bemused, like your grand parents looking at your iphone...but im glad i was here for the revolution

Mellor

DeVore wrote: »

I would love to see really radical styles fighting but I dunno if we'll ever see anything to different from MT & BJJ again IMHO....

DeVore wrote: »

But you can't blame fighters for choosing what works and clearly 90%+ of them choose the standard combo of MT and BJJ. Which inexorably leads to the question in the thread title....

... but it does seem like the "mixed" in mma is boiling down to MT and BJJ. Or am I wrong?

DeV

I agree, and disagree.
If somebody was to take up martial arts with the plan of getting into MMA, then I would recommend MT & BJJ, especially in Ireland/europe.

But I disagree that this is the best style, or the dominate style.
Look at current champions/contenders in the UFC (just picking UFC as its best know by everyone),

Edgar: Wrestling, BJJ, Boxing
Maynard: Wrestling, boxing
BJ: BJJ, Boxing
GSP: Karate, Wrestling, BJJ, Judo, Muay Thai (learnt in that order)
Koscheck: Wrestling, Kickboxing, (starting BJJ)
Silva: Muay Thai, TKD, BJJ & Judo
Belfort: BJJ, boxing, Karate, Judo
Shogun: MT & BJJ
Evens: Wrestling, boxing, BJJ
Machida: Karate, BJJ (more exp at karate)
Rampage: Wrestling, boxing
Velasquez: Wrestling, boxing,
Lesnar: Wrestling
JDS: Kickboxing, BJJ

So, as you can see there is still quite a mix at the top. For everyone doing Striking is still every split between kickboxing, boxing, and muay thai.
There are plenty of great BJJ fighters at the toop, but imo wrestling is producing more stars. The US high schools and colleges will keep producing elite wrestlers, so they'll keep coming.
A lot of the wrestlers once they get settled in MMA take up BJJ, this is so that they can position via wresling and lock in subs, or so they can defend BJJ, they'll still be wrestlers.

The true greats, will be trained in all of the sports. Look at GSP, started off with Karate as a child, then moved to wrestling and BJJ, took up judo (well gaidojutso is closest to judo) and muay thai when he got into MMA and Anderson Silva, he mainly uses a muay thai style in fights, but he was originally a tae kwon do fighter, then MT, then bjj and judo. He is also a yellow rope in capeoira (sp?). There's your TKD Dev, plus he's prob good enough to get our first capeoira KO

I think the problem is that a lot of people refer to some fighters as Muay Thai, when they aren't. Even people with a boxing base throw kicks. Silva's style is Muay thai, GSP is more of a kickboxer, Machida has a Karate dominate style. Even a lot of the classes you see around, probably aren't teaching muay thai, but a mix of everything.

lukeyjudo

I think the original question has been answered... twice.

Royce Gracie demolished all his opponents in the early UFC's. No rules, no gloves no time limits. Proving the effectiveness and dominance of Gracie (Brazilian) Jiu Jitsu over all martial arts at that time.

But the Gracie's created a monster.

A signifigant event for me in MMA history is when Matt Hughes destroyed Royce Gracie thus proving the dominance of Mixed Martial Arts over any one art. To me this hammered home the importance of training all ranges of fighting to a high level and not just relying on the one range. And it also nearly made me cry... but I've learned effective fighting is not about working on what you love but loving what works.

Mellor

lukeyjudo wrote: »

I think the original question has been answered... twice.

Royce Gracie demolished all his opponents in the early UFC's. No rules, no gloves no time limits. Proving the effectiveness and dominance of Gracie (Brazilian) Jiu Jitsu over all martial arts at that time.

But the Gracie's created a monster.

A signifigant event for me in MMA history is when Matt Hughes destroyed Royce Gracie thus proving the dominance of Mixed Martial Arts over any one art. To me this hammered home the importance of training all ranges of fighting to a high level and not just relying on the one range. And it also nearly made me cry... but I've learned effective fighting is not about working on what you love but loving what works.

The only reason BJJ was so sucessful in the early UFCs was because the rest never seen it before.
Look at Ken v Gracie at UFC 1, Ken basically let him slip in that sub as he didn't know what it was. BJJ was nominate as it was basically BJJ black belts verses people with zero sub defense or exp.

MMa cam out and to me its clear to have to have both wrestling and BJJ, and on your feet you have to have muay thai quick strikes to wear guys down, with boxing/kickboxing strikes for knock outs

darced

This post has been deleted.

Barry.Oglesby

It's already been answered but fighters make fights. Everything else is just a label.

Sid_Justice

DeVore wrote: »

has the original question been answered?

If the UFC has taught us anything, it is that the answer is 42