Cycling advice - Dublin-Paris-Italy*

Iron Enthusiast

Hi all,

Next April I'll be cycling to a friends wedding which is taking place at Lake Garda in Northern Italy.

My route so far will be: Dublin - Cherbourg - Paris - Lake Garda.

I was just wondering if anyone here has experience of cycling a similar route and/or has any advice? (especially on the Paris to L.G portion - best route etc)

I'll be doing the Dublin to Paris portion with a friend for company and then will be heading on solo for the last part of the journey.

As always any advice is much appreciated!:pac:

Captain Havoc

Yes, I cycled from Cherbourg to near Fontainebleau (south of Paris) and I'm planning a cycle from Roscoff to Grenoble next year. I took the long way down to Fountainebleau as I cycled along the Normandy cost to see the D-Day landing beaches and then to another town to catch a stage finish of the tour de France. Best advice I can give is on the way down buy Michelan regional maps and follow the D roads. Carry as little as possible with you also, you can wash your clothes on the way down. My routes involve staying in Formule 1 and Etap hotels which are €30 - €35 per night per room, so two of you could share a room (they're tiny but a beds a bed).
Best of luck with it.

serendip

Where do you plan to cross the Alps? That will dictate your route from Paris. Some options include the Brenner Pass, Simplon Pass, Gottard Pass (and possibly a couple of others). Each choice leads to a very different route. Without having thought about it too much, I'd say the Simplon pass may be the way to go.

honkjelly

If you like hills then you could pick a pretty spectacular route through the alps. The side of lake garda on this map is pretty horrible to cycle as it's mainly through tunnels and galleries. Hope your wedding is on the other one.

http://www.gazzetta.it/Speciali/Giroditalia/2010/pdf/planimetrie/pla_18.pdf

realslow

Captain Havoc

Planning to do Roscoff to Chamonix end of June myself.Just curious do yo have your route sorted and how long do you think it will take.Considering taking trailer as I will have climbing gear have you ever used one.

Captain Havoc

realslow wrote: »

Captain Havoc

Planning to do Roscoff to Chamonix end of June myself.Just curious do yo have your route sorted and how long do you think it will take.Considering taking trailer as I will have climbing gear have you ever used one.

Plan is at the moment:
1. Roscoff to Pontivy 130km, catching TdF sprint finish at Mûr de Bretagne
2. Pontivy to Châteaubriant 134km
3. Châteaubriant to Tours 175km
4. Tours to Châteauroux 108km, catching TdF sprint finish in Châteauroux
5. Châteauroux to Moulins 139km
6. Moulins to Roanne 91.5km
7. Roanne to Saint-Quentin-Fallavier 108km
8. Saint-Quentin-Fallavier to Sainte-Marie-de-Cuines 144km
9. Sainte-Marie-de-Cuines to Séez 133km, going over the Col de l'Iseran
10. Séez to Montreux 153km, not quite 153km as 13km will be bussed through the Mont Blanc tunnel to Chamonix
11. Montreux to Geneva 80km

My mission is to go over the Col de l'Iseran and catch some Tour de France. If I was going direct to Chamonix, I'd be going to Geneva and up from that side. If you want to hold on a few days and come with me you're more than welcome, I intend to be leaving on or around the 3rd of July. I need to wait for the ferry timetables to come out. No I have never used a trailer and never would, I imagine it would be very hard climbing with it.

realslow

Thanks for invite but need to be in Chamonix by July 2.Need to figure out how to carry 20kg with me.Hoping to catch some mountain stages of tdf so may yet see you there.Thanks for info will be doing same route some of way.

serendip

Captain Havoc wrote: »

No I have never used a trailer and never would, I imagine it would be very hard climbing with it.

The big problem with a trailer is that it's a royal pain in the **** every time you have to manouever the bike parking, or turning round. And you do that a lot. However, if you're taking climbing gear, then I doubt you have much choice -- perhaps get the climbing gear shipped out?

Off topic:
What routes do you plan to do in Chamonix?

realslow

serendip

No definite planned routes at moment,from past experience long term plans rarely work out,prefer to go with flow. more of a mountaineer than a rock climber but mont blanc done so dont have to worry about that.
Any suggestions from your end,nothing harder than AD

serendip

realslow wrote: »

serendip

No definite planned routes at moment,from past experience long term plans rarely work out,prefer to go with flow. more of a mountaineer than a rock climber but mont blanc done so dont have to worry about that.
Any suggestions from your end,nothing harder than AD

By far the best route I've done out there is the Forbes Arete on the Aiguille de Chardonet. It's AD, I think, but it's long and you need to move reasonably quickly. We didn't, and ended up crossing a steep snowfield and a glacier in the late afternoon sun. But a brilliant route, and quieter than many of the Chamonix routes.

Can't you get a climbing partner to take your gear out for you?

Iron Enthusiast

Sorry, I've been swamped at work and also injured so I didn't have an opportunity to respond sooner.

My plans have changed slightly as my partner in crime for the Dublin to Paris section of the journey has had to bail. It's a shame not have had some company for part of the journey but it doesn't effect my plan to hit the road!

The route has changed slightly as I'll now fly into Paris and then cycle down through France, past Geneva and then over the Alps to the Northern Italian lakes to a place called Pallanza - roughly 800km.

I've checked withh AA and Google maps for the shortest route (excluding Motorways) and have this route map:

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=Paris&daddr=pallanza&hl=en&geocode=FVt-6QIdi98jACkPt-IGH27mRzFglIxow4ILBA%3BFeO0vAIdiHyCACkpBn4w4N6FRzGOTHpT-FW13Q&mra=ls&dirflg=ht&sll=47.390912,5.449219&sspn=3.607121,7.042236&ie=UTF8&t=p&z=7

I've no doubt that there will be some issues with the above route and would be very interested to hear your thoughts.

I was also wondering if anyone here has ever cycled out of CDG airport in Paris as i'm guessing that could be a dodgey / confusing mess of roads and HGVs!

I'll be travelling very light as my GF will be flying direct with the gear i'll be wearing in Itlay and hope to cover about 140km per day until I reach the Alps - at which point I have no idea of what my speed / lack there of may be?

Thoughts and opinions greatly appreciated!:pac:

RobFowl

I'm planning to be in France for the first two weeks in July and catch the Brittany stages.
Captain havoc if you pm me and are happy to sleep on a sofa bed in a campsite then can offer you a free bed for at least a night.

oflahero

My main concern for such a jaunt (and I'm half thinking about something along those lines) would be getting enough grub in along the way. You're grand in Ireland where every small village has a Centra with a hot deli counter, but what of the likes of rural France on a Sunday? Any experiences to share, or can you generally trust to providence that an E. Leclerc or a friendly patisserie will always hove into view?

Plus, staying in the Formule 1s means the edge of town by a motorway, and you wouldn't be in much of a mood to hop on the bike again to find the centre of town after a long day in the saddle...

ashleey

I'd agree with those concerns. I've cycled an organised trip from cherbourg to Paris. You can generally get breakfast at etap type motels but it won't get you through 140km. Village life in France is very quiet and eating out tends to be fine dining or kebabs with little in between. We pulled into quite nice towns in Brittany with the kids this summer and the cafes had no food at all, just coffee. Having said all that cycling is a pleasure as the hgvs stay off the small roads and people pass you with room. The opposite to here

Captain Havoc

Having cycled on my todd from Cherbourg to near Fontainebleu, staying exclusively in F1 hotels and eating on the way, I can tell you, it's fine. I would have breakfast in the morning, stop in a town for lunch and if I was still going in the evening I'd stop also. It is necessary to stop beofre 14h00 for lunch though. Very true about not wanting to hop into town at the end of day. Even when I was in town, I didn't leave the hotel though.
They are not concerns and anyone who wants to do a long trip can ask me any questions on organising a trip or joining my one.

Daniel S

What are F1 and etap hotels? As in F1 and Etap racing?

Captain Havoc

mtb_kng wrote: »

What are F1 and etap hotels? As in F1 and Etap racing?

Formule 1 hotels are Accor hotels budget end hotels. They have two beds, a TV and a couple of lights in each room. Showers and toilets are communal, there are no bars or restaurants but they do have a vending machine at reception. Rooms are €30 if booked 30 days in advance or €35 per room per night if not, this price is all over France.

Etap hotels are Accors next up in the budget end. They are much like F1 but the rooms are en suite and a little bigger. Room prices vary but are around €30-€50 per room per night.

Daniel S

Captain Havoc wrote: »

Formule 1 hotels are Accor hotels budget end hotels. They have two beds, a TV and a couple of lights in each room. Showers and toilets are communal, there are no bars or restaurants but they do have a vending machine at reception. Rooms are €30 if booked 30 days in advance or €35 per room per night if not, this price is all over France.

Etap hotels are Accors next up in the budget end. They are much like F1 but the rooms are en suite and a little bigger. Room prices vary but are around €30-€50 per room per night.

I might just have my first overseas bike trip next summer before college now

Check the bike onto a cheap Ryanair flight, use the above hotels, food is cheap in continential Europe... Jesus, I'm getting all excited now :rolleyes:

ashleey

Watch out for the price of a pint though!

Daniel S

ashleey wrote: »

Watch out for the price of a pint though!

Before college, ie I'm 17 I can't drink.... ah who am I fooling!

ashleey

Even the kids drink wine in France. You'll be fine

Daniel S

ashleey wrote: »

Even the kids drink wine in France. You'll be fine

I was joking, the 6am starts will just become 2pm :P

Iron Enthusiast

Thanks all for the info and interesting point regarding the food stops.

Captain Havoc i'd propbably be thinking along the lines of your format. i.e: Breakfast well, then cycle until lunch, again fuel up and then keep going until its time to stop for the evening.

With a goal of covering 140km a day (excluding the Alpine section) and a conservative estimated average speed of approximately 24/25Km (travelling light and on a road bike) that means roughly 5.5 to 6 Hours of cycling a day (i'd also include an extra hour buffer for 'getting lost' so the total goes up to about 6 or 7hours).
At the end of April in France Civil Twilight (brightness) begins at 6:50am and ends at 8:40pm - giving a generous number of daylights hours in-between.

My plan would be to start at 8 or 9am in the morning and cycle for 3 hours until lunchtime (approx 12/1pm), then take an hour to eat and digest before heading off again with maybe another brief stop in the afternoon to enjoy the places i'm passing through. That would give me a daily finish time of 5pm ot 6pm in the evening with 3 hours of daylight in the bank.

Captain Havoc I've a couple of questions if you don't mind:

• What kind of food were you able to buy to consume on the bike between stops i.e: Bananas, bars, energy drinks etc..?
• Also how difficult did you find navagating on French B roads and do you have any advice in that regard?
• Did you find it difficult finding accomadation if you just 'turned up' in a town and are they (Hostels) easy to find?

Also has anyone has any opinion regarding the proposed route I highlighted in my last post (the blue link) and does anyone here have any personal insight as to what to I should expect when I try to cross the Alps from the Swiss / French side to Italy?

Thanks again in advance! This forum is a great source help!:pac:

markdrayton

I've stayed in a few Hotel F1/Etap Hotel when riding. They're fine, if almost impossibly cramped with two people and two bikes. However, a bed's a bed, and for €30 they're a steal. You're unlikely to be stopping in many major metropolis so distance to the centre of town (particularly if you're riding) isn't a concern.

IMHO food isn't a concern either; most villages have a boulangerie and many have a convenience shop. Watch out for sunday and lunchtime closures. I've never gone hungry riding a bike in France.

As for distance/time in the mountains: on the Raid Pyrenean and Raid Alpine (both done as a pair carrying a minimal amount of gear, not on a tour) we covered between 100 and 200k per day and up to ~4000m climbing. Longest days were around 8 hours riding time. The Alps are harder going than the Pyrenees with very little road that isn't up or down so expect to be covering less horizontal distance and more vertical.

It looks like your route from Geneva to Pallanza will take you north of most of the bits of the Alps that I've cycled so my only specific advice is to expect the road to go up, and quickly, once you're in that neck of the woods. We started the Raid Alpine from Thonon-les-Bains and within 15km we were on a lengthy climb. It doesn't stop until you hit the sea.

I wrote a (long!) report on the Raid Pyrenean which has some details on what we took and how we organised things. It might be useful to you.

Enjoy it! Sounds brilliant. Credit card touring (road bikes, hotels and as little gear as possible) is a blast. With luck I'll be off to the Dolomites this year.

Captain Havoc

Iron Enthusiast wrote: »

• What kind of food were you able to buy to consume on the bike between stops i.e: Bananas, bars, energy drinks etc..?
• Also how difficult did you find navagating on French B roads and do you have any advice in that regard?
• Did you find it difficult finding accomadation if you just 'turned up' in a town and are they (Hostels) easy to find?

It's easy to find a shop that sells bananas etc...... I ate like a horse in towns though, I remember one place eating a three course meal. If you arrive after 14h00 you'll be lucky to get a sandwich anywhere. Generally I ate near the arrival point in the evening, one thing though the French have an obsession of serving everything with chips.

Navigating, here's my advice, buy regional maps (Michelan) and you won't go wrong. I bought a large map and some of the roads were marked D which are like our N roads but coming out of towns could have many lanes and seemed a bit scary. You'll pick these up along the way in petrol stations or newsagents handy enough, just try and pick one up before you leave your current region.

I booked all my accomodation in advance, you'll save money doing this, flights and ferries should be booked well in advance also.

I averaged 150km a day at 20kph, I carried next to nothing, there's a photo of the bike fully loaded in my pictures.

ashleey

Dress in layers too. Most mornings for us were cool/ cold and damp but roasting in the afternoon on the open road. I really envy you. If I could find someone to mind my 4 kids I would do something similar. Will have to settle for cycling from Kilkenny to Donegal ahead of the family holiday with them driving up after. Good luck and enjoy it. By the way, most French towns were in a valley, so steep hill in and then book a hotel on the way out the next day and so get the hill done that night so you can start the next morning on the flat

Iron Enthusiast

markdrayton wrote: »

I wrote a (long!) report on the Raid Pyrenean which has some details on what we took and how we organised things. It might be useful to you.
.

Mark thanks very much for your post and report. I'd recommend that anyone else interest in cycling reads the above link. It sounds like a briliant trip!

godihatedehills

Captain Havoc wrote: »

They are not concerns and anyone who wants to do a long trip can ask me any questions on organising a trip or joining my one.

I'm also looking at touring in France in June, but I want to end up down in Bordeaux. Still though, maybe there'll be some overlap at the start, I'll pm you.

boege

Also has anyone has any opinion regarding the proposed route I highlighted in my last post (the blue link) and does anyone here have any personal insight as to what to I should expect when I try to cross the Alps from the Swiss / French side to Italy?[/FONT]



Your route through the alps goes around Lake Geneva and down the Valais region (watch for the language change from French to German after Sion) is along flat (in an alpine sense of the word!) valley floors. IMHO it is a fairly dull route through the alps but your options for crossing into Italy are limited. The route you show goes to Lake Maggiore and not Lake Garda - I assume you know this.

If you had time you should consider going further east to Interlaken and take in Grindlewald (home of the Eiger north face) and also the Lauterbrunnen valley (considered to be one of the most perfectly formed valleys in the world) - you can even bag Piz Gloria, the famous spinning restauraunt that appeared in an old Bond movie. You can then come back around and take your planned route into Italy.

However, the Swiss Franc is inflating against the Euro which means your time there may be more expensive. A cheaper solution would be turn at Martigny at the Valais region and take the St Bernard Pass - t'would be a crime not to bag a big mountain pass. Stay the night in Martigny and take the day to over it.

Be warned, I am a bit of an alps freak, being holidaying there for 10+ years and have done lots of hillwalking and cycling there. The drive into Chamonix and the first view of a snowcapped Mont Blanc still blows my mind after all these years.