Question about lamping.

il gatto

Hi. Just a quick question for the regulars here. I know (I think) that it's illegal to shoot from a public road but is using a lamp also illegal? I always thought it was, but I never really cared as most people who lamp for foxes seem to pick remote, sparsely populated places to do it.
Last night a jeep spent 45mins driving up and down a few hundred yards of road, lamping in every direction. I didn't hear any shots but that's not to say a suppressor and sub-sonic bullets wasn't being used.
I'm not anti hunting, although personally I wouldn't shoot what I wouldn't eat. Except rats (my nemesis). I don't really care if people shoot from the road, provided it's remote. I do have a problem with lamping in a field between two houses about 20 yards from each and worse, lighting up the front of our house which is 250-300yards from the road. It's a rural area but it's on the edge of a large village. I don't fancy bullets hitting 40yds from our back door. We have horses, dogs and a cat any of which could've made a tempting target.
I suppose my not so quick question is, how do you feel about this and moreover, what would you do? As I dragged our dogs inside, I considered calling the Gardaí but tbh I wouldn't like to do that to someone. I also considered pointing a fox lamp back at them so as to signify the fact that somebody is not pleased with theit activity. Next time I'll take a spin down and take their reg so if any livestock wake up dead, it won't be such a mystery.
Thanks.

sincere113

Yes it's illegal to shoot from a road.

What makes you think that they were hunting?

sniper83

il gatto wrote: »

Hi. Just a quick question for the regulars here. I know (I think) that it's illegal to shoot from a public road but is using a lamp also illegal? I always thought it was, but I never really cared as most people who lamp for foxes seem to pick remote, sparsely populated places to do it.
Last night a jeep spent 45mins driving up and down a few hundred yards of road, lamping in every direction. I didn't hear any shots but that's not to say a suppressor and sub-sonic bullets wasn't being used.
I'm not anti hunting, although personally I wouldn't shoot what I wouldn't eat. Except rats (my nemesis). I don't really care if people shoot from the road, provided it's remote. I do have a problem with lamping in a field between two houses about 20 yards from each and worse, lighting up the front of our house which is 250-300yards from the road. It's a rural area but it's on the edge of a large village. I don't fancy bullets hitting 40yds from our back door. We have horses, dogs and a cat any of which could've made a tempting target.
I suppose my not so quick question is, how do you feel about this and moreover, what would you do? As I dragged our dogs inside, I considered calling the Gardaí but tbh I wouldn't like to do that to someone. I also considered pointing a fox lamp back at them so as to signify the fact that somebody is not pleased with theit activity. Next time I'll take a spin down and take their reg so if any livestock wake up dead, it won't be such a mystery.
Thanks.

This should clear it up for you its taken from nargc's web site..

Section 45 of the Wildlife (Amendment) Act 2000 amends Section 38 of the 1976 Act which applied to the use of lamps, mirrors, dazzling equipment etc., for the purposes of hunting. Section 38 of the '76 Act was substituted by this completely new Section. The amendment states that it will be illegal for any person to hunt any protected wild animal or protected wild bird while using a lamp, light, torch, mirror or other artificial dazzling device. Also prohibited are any devices for illuminating, image intensifying or heat seeking, night sights, or any device which the Minister may declare as coming within this category.

It will be lawful to use such devices while ringing or marking or while hunting for educational or scientific purposes under licence issued by the Minister. The Minister may amend or revoke an order made under this Section. The most important thing for hunting people to know about this Section is that the ban on the use of lamps and the other equipment mentioned, applies only to protected wild birds and protected wild animals. Therefore, contrary to what some people would assert, and have asserted in the past, even people in regulatory positions, it is not illegal to hunt by lamping foxes or rabbits, . However, please note that while it is not illegal to lamp a fox or rabbit from a public road for the purposes of shooting, it most definitely is illegal to shoot from a road. This has always been the case and this distinction needs to be emphasised here. The shot should be taken from inside the field and then at a distance of not less than 60 feet (measured in meters now) from the road and shooting away from the direction of the road. Legally, lamping and shooting are two distinctly different acts.

If i were you next time you see them lamping hop in ur car and follow them, and if you see them firing from the public road have a word and tell them that if you catch them doing it again you will report them to the guards as you have horses in the area and dont want them frightened. That way you are giving them a fair warning and you have a very good reason to report them to the guards if they do it again...

CJhaughey

Thats all good stuff sniper but I have just one query that has never been fully explained to my satisfaction.
Where does the 60ft /20m law exist?
I cannot find any mention of the distances in any S.I. that I have looked at and I wonder if it just a guideline that has become accepted as law.
Don't get me wrong I am in full agreement with your post but the 60ft bit has puzzled me for a long time.

sincere113

I agree CJhaughey, I too would like to know where this law is stated.

Both NARGC and Countryside alliance both state that it is against the law to discharge a firearm within 60ft of a public road or dwelling house. Maybe it is a guideline and it can not be interpreted as reckless discharge if you adhere to the 60ft rule.

However I have a very vague recollection that this rule/law was introduced before the 1925 firearms act.

il gatto

sincere113 wrote: »

Yes it's illegal to shoot from a road.

What makes you think that they were hunting?

Because they were not looking in any particular direction such as at livestock but rather indiscriminately flashing in every direction.
And the repeated scanning of an area, plus ownership of a lamp in the first place makes it most likely. And besides , it is a common activity in these parts.
Thanks sniper83. I have heard various distances from 20meters to 50meters. I don't think I've ever seen someone actually leave the road to take a shot though. Maybe lean on a gate, but that's it.
Again, I have no issue with it other than where it's carried out.

rock garden

I have no problem with people lamping as long as it is done properly. but around my part of the country they are a few lads who are destroying the sport for everyone else 1lamping without permission 2 shooting hares and leaving them where they fell . 3 running sheep into drains. 4 wrecking gates and fences. 5 lamping the same area 3 or 4 nights a week . 6 taking shots at foxes you would have trouble hitting with a heat seeking missile. I think everybody here would agree we all could do without these kind of people in our countryside. :mad:

sniper83

sincere113 wrote: »

I agree CJhaughey, I too would like to know where this law is stated.

Both NARGC and Countryside alliance both state that it is against the law to discharge a firearm within 60ft of a public road or dwelling house. Maybe it is a guideline and it can not be interpreted as reckless discharge if you adhere to the 60ft rule.

However I have a very vague recollection that this rule/law was introduced before the 1925 firearms act.

I think its somewhere in the Summary Jurisdiction act of 1851?? does that ring any bells with anyone?

CJhaughey

I dug around but I could find nothing about any acts prior to 1922.
The one thing I did find which made me think was the UK law:

The Highways Act 1980 Section 161 in England and Wales makes it an offence to discharge without lawful authority or excuse any firearm within 50 feet of the centre of the highway and in consequence of which the user of the highway is injured, interrupted or endangered. This does not apply to footpaths and bridleways.

This obviously is quite recent and if any such legislation were to be enacted here it would likely be after 1922?

foxboy

sniper83 wrote: »

I think its somewhere in the Summary Jurisdiction act of 1851?? does that ring any bells with anyone?

is this what your looking for

Fox

[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]The shooting of foxes at night time with the aid of a lamp is not unlawful provided it can be done with the permission of the landowner and it does not occur within 60 feet of the public road. However it does pose a greater risk to the public and other farm animals. A condition which might be considered appropriate to the licensing of a centrefire high powered rifle for fox shooting could be that Gardai are notified of any shooting taking place after dark.

taken from page 29 of the garda commissioners guidelines as to practical application & operation of firearms act 1925 -2009 on the garda website
www.garda.ie/
[/FONT][/FONT]

Tackleberrywho

foxboy wrote: »

is this what your looking for

Fox

[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]The shooting of foxes at night time with the aid of a lamp is not unlawful provided it can be done with the permission of the landowner and it does not occur within 60 feet of the public road. However it does pose a greater risk to the public and other farm animals. A condition which might be considered appropriate to the licensing of a centrefire high powered rifle for fox shooting could be that Gardai are notified of any shooting taking place after dark.

taken from page 29 of the garda commissioners guidelines as to practical application & operation of firearms act 1925 -2009 on the garda website
www.garda.ie/
[/FONT][/FONT]

Good to see it in black and white!

BornToKill

The Summary Jurisdiction (Ireland) Act 1851 prohibits discharge of a firearm within 60 feet of a public road. The Law Reform Commission recommended that the distance be amended to 20 metres but I am not aware of this having happened.

CJhaughey

The commissioners guidelines are just that, they are not law.
If anyone can point to a link of the 1851 act I would be grateful.

tfox

foxboy wrote: »

is this what your looking for

Fox

[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]The shooting of foxes at night time with the aid of a lamp is not unlawful provided it can be done with the permission of the landowner and it does not occur within 60 feet of the public road. However it does pose a greater risk to the public and other farm animals. A condition which might be considered appropriate to the licensing of a centrefire high powered rifle for fox shooting could be that Gardai are notified of any shooting taking place after dark. [/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]taken from page 29 of the garda commissioners guidelines as to practical application & operation of firearms act 1925 -2009 on the garda website[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]www.garda.ie/[/FONT]
[/FONT]

Really annnoys me the way the DOJ go on describing them as high powered rifles !! All rifles by their nature are high powered, if they werent they wouldnt work !! Just a way to make our sport seem more dangerous to the general public !!

Wolfe Tone

CJhaughey wrote: »

The commissioners guidelines are just that, they are not law.
If anyone can point to a link of the 1851 act I would be grateful.

I have it here(I think this is what you are looking for, if not give us a shout) in html format, would not let me attach it as html so I had to zip it.

No6

Couldnt find the 60ft bit but I found this

Any Person who shag in any public Road or Street of a Town turn loose any Horse or Cattle

different times eh!!:D there was also a bit about whipping!!

kfod

Summary Jurisdiction (Ireland) Act, 1851. 736

. Any Person who shall fly any Kite or play at any Game, or make or use any Slide upon Ice or Snow, on any public Road or in any Street of a Town, to the Danger of the Passengers; or who shall cast or throw any Fireworks or discharge any Fire-arms on any public Road, or within Sixty Feet of the Centre thereof, or in any Street or Passage of a Town, or who shall cast, throw, or discharge the same, or suffer the same to be cast, thrown, or discharged, from out of his House, Shop, Dwelling, Lodging, or Habitation, or from out of any Place thereto belonging, into any public Road, Street, or Passage, shall be liable to a Fine not exceeding Ten Shillings:


how much is ten shillings nowadays?

cavan shooter

kfod wrote: »

Summary Jurisdiction (Ireland) Act, 1851. 736

. Any Person who shall fly any Kite or play at any Game, or make or use any Slide upon Ice or Snow, on any public Road or in any Street of a Town, to the Danger of the Passengers; or who shall cast or throw any Fireworks or discharge any Fire-arms on any public Road, or within Sixty Feet of the Centre thereof, or in any Street or Passage of a Town, or who shall cast, throw, or discharge the same, or suffer the same to be cast, thrown, or discharged, from out of his House, Shop, Dwelling, Lodging, or Habitation, or from out of any Place thereto belonging, into any public Road, Street, or Passage, shall be liable to a Fine not exceeding Ten Shillings:


how much is ten shillings nowadays?

I wouldnt worry too much Id say youl get done for reckless discharge of a firearm instread.

brocdubh

CJhaughey wrote: »

I dug around but I could find nothing about any acts prior to 1922.
The one thing I did find which made me think was the UK law:

The Highways Act 1980 Section 161 in England and Wales makes it an offence to discharge without lawful authority or excuse any firearm within 50 feet of the centre of the highway and in consequence of which the user of the highway is injured, interrupted or endangered. This does not apply to footpaths and bridleways.

This obviously is quite recent and if any such legislation were to be enacted here it would likely be after 1922?

i think it comes under the 1922 "act of adaption"most uk laws were adapted wholesale by the state,the most common were the likes of larceny,vagrancy,assault etc so pre 1922 it`s most likely a uk firearms law.