Question for airline pilots

MightyDucks

Just a quick question for any airline pilots on here

I've been doing a lot of reading (mostly on pprune) about the life of been an airline pilot and from what I can see it nearly all seems to be negative. Is it really that bad? does the pay suck as much as people say it does? Are the terms and conditions that?

The reason I ask is because its a career I’m very keen on perusing and I’ve already started my ppl but if its as bad as what I’m reading I don't know if its even a financially sound job never mind a decent living.

And I know pilot jobs are like gold dust at the moment but its something I’ll always regret not going for it in years to come if I don't.

Any insight would be appreciated,

MD

xflyer

Not an airline pilot although I do earn my living as a pilot, so ignore if you wish but I asked that very question of an Ryanair friend recently. His answer was that the flying is good but you have to put up with a lot of BS from the higher ups. A known Ryanair problem. However the money is good from his point of view. In fact Ryanair do pay their pilots quite well. They earn every penny though.

So he is happy enough right now. But his plan is to get enough hours to be employable overseas. So he is not exactly devoted to Ryanair. He is single though. Marriage changes your perspective. Then the issues of lack of job security arises and the potential to be moved to another base whether you like it or not.

What you have to do is look at an airline flying in terms of it being a job and a career not as a dream. Really it's just a job once you get it. I know that from my own experience. Every now and then I try to remind myself while I'm flying feeling tired and bored, yes bored, that this is what I worked for over the years. But the hours are long and in my case the pay is derisory.

But it's not all negative. Many pilots enjoy their work in spite of the many compromises it causes in their life. Certainly being an airline pilot isn't what it was. But like any job it gets routine and the BS quotient gets higher and higher.

You know in reality I realise now that what I should have done was become something well paid and used the money I earned to fly privately. Many a pilot comes to that conclusion far too late.

Recently I was with an Examiner, he commented that many older pilots come to hate flying and the job. But they're stuck. But that's true of many jobs. On the other hand very few jobs have scores of dreamy eyed youngsters prepared to spend a fortune or do anything to achieve their goal.

I would say it's not as bad as some paint it. But quite frankly it isn't as good as many people think it is. The other issue is the in general T&Cs are on a downward spiral.

So view it realistically, consider where you'll be in twenty years time?

Delancey

I am also not an airline pilot but I have a relation who recently took redundancy from Aer Lingus having spent much of his professional life there.
He would say that what was once a good or even great job is now a lousy one - the last 10-15 years have seen a steady erosion of pilots pay and conditions , even the status of the job has diminished.

Bearing in mind that what happens in the U.S. has a nasty habit of happening here look what has happened there - young pilots starting off saddled with huge debts and being paid in some cases as little as $20,000 a year as commuter pilots.
The days of airline cadetships would seem to be a thing of the past so you have to fork out huge sums ( getting the required loans is now a huge issue ) and after all that if you can get a job the pay is lousy.

I would caution against believing any of the self-serving crap spouted by flight schools about predicted shortages of pilots - they would say that wouldn't they ?

Years ago I was in Australia and got a PPL there , I recently traced my old instructor via the web - he gave up flying due to the lousy jobs and pay - he is now a bus driver and wishes he had given up being a pilot sooner.
That is an absolutely true story.

Storm 10

Click on this link below its run by a Delta Airlines Pilot who will answer any question that is asked of him about flying etc.

Link: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/34/ot ... al-628324/

wittymoniker

it's a fantastic job, there's a reason why the collective term is a 'whinge of pilots'.

nag

@xflyer What kind of flying do you do? Been at it long? Worked for any of the airlines before?

xflyer

Nag, I once posted on another forum more or less openly and also PPRuNe. It was obvious who I was. But I had to stop because I would get a phone call from people who paid me asking me to change or delete the posts. I realised I couldn't speak openly if I wanted to keep working. It wold be easier if I was one of dozens or hundreds of pilots in an airline so I could say I fly type X out of Y. But even then, have you noticed how few post here? Even on PPRuNe most keep a tight lid on their actual identity for pretty much the same reasons.

So I'm anonymous now. But I have been around a long time, worked for airlines in a ground capacity and am essentially a freelance pilot at the moment. Which sounds better than it is.

I won't give any clues therefore, sorry.

donkey balls

I am an ex airline employee non flying even though i hold a PPL,over the years the T&C,s have come down alot in certain airlines mainly US based i heard of a 744 skipper getting paid something like $80k USD to fly on euro sectors.
I also have a mate in FR they think it is the bizz at present(ok he has no ties to Ireland house etc)and is in enjoying every minute of it been based in euro land but im sure it will get mudane getting up at 0400z when on the early shift doing standbyes etc.
The training from 0-f ATPL/ TR line check/ took them just under three years modular with a cost of approx 90k euro,And there on a hourly rate of about 60e per sector flown so if there stuck on the ramp somewhere in France/spain they dont get paid.

rob88

donkey balls wrote: »

I am an ex airline employee non flying even though i hold a PPL,over the years the T&C,s have come down alot in certain airlines mainly US based i heard of a 744 skipper getting paid something like $80k USD to fly on euro sectors.
I also have a mate in FR they think it is the bizz at present(ok he has no ties to Ireland house etc)and is in enjoying every minute of it been based in euro land but im sure it will get mudane getting up at 0400z when on the early shift doing standbyes etc.
The training from 0-f ATPL/ TR line check/ took them just under three years modular with a cost of approx 90k euro,And there on a hourly rate of about 60e per sector flown so if there stuck on the ramp somewhere in France/spain they dont get paid.

60 euro per hour?

donkey balls

rob88 wrote: »

60 euro per hour?

afirm:D thats just starting off as a FO

tippilot

www.ppjn.com

Factfiles on terms and conditions for a lot of airlines, recruitment policies etc

nag

@xlyer Not a problem mate. I was only chancing my arm anyway

Tenger

...knowing a small number of pilots I would agree with what xflyer and delancey42 have posted.

Being a pilot was once a dream job. However over the last 15-20 years the airline industry has changed a lot. The modern commercial pilot is under a lot of stress (re puntuality) and often they have had to take out a mortgage to get their CPL etc.

The post above mentions E60 per hour, thats great money.....but not if you need 90K+ to get your basic qualification.

Relatively speaking I am sure pilots are earning well over the average salary but that in itself doesn't help if you realise 10 years in that you no longer like flying. You find yourself stuck in the job as you cannot get another with similar salary levels. And the seniority systems in place in most airlines mean that if you move airline you must start at the bottom again, this is something which non-airline people often don't get. The benefits of being an airline employee are mostly seniority based (fleet/route choice for example)

As above a lot of pilots see it as a chore. They do not have a love of flying.
Which is sad as I'm sure it was that love or desire that got them into the role in the first place.

Now on the other hand I know several pilots who still love the job after many years doing. They get on with their role, and ignore the penny pinching dross coming down from middle managers. In fact I know an Aer Lingus pilot who recently retired and decided to buy his own light aircraft, so he could go back to what he calls "real flying"


I say go for it. You may not like it but at least you will know what you want to do when you have retired. And in the meantime your PPL/CPL is transferable throughout the world.

MightyDucks

Thanks guys/gals

some food for thought,

Storm 10 I've looked at this tread previous and he also says that if some one asked him about becoming a pilot, he would tell them to forget about it.

Still not sure what to do as to be honest I always thought the moaners were spoilt teenagers who never had to work a real days work in their lives and got all their funding from the bank of dad. Unfortunately it seems I was wrong. If it was a job where I could make a decent living with a decent lifestyle then I would have no problem. I know its not a job to make good money but I am quiet fond of three meals a day:p

Any more insight appreciated

pclancy

I would also make the point that if you can get qualified in a well paying job other then flying such as IT for example, you can use your spare cash to enjoy all the fun aspects of your dream without coming near an airline! Get your PPL then rent or timeshare aircraft for fun as much as you want instead of diving deep into debt. Also if you went aborad to places more Ga and aviation friendly such as the US, Oz or Nz you might also have chances of teaching or ag/cargo/medical work.