Utility Bill needed for Grant?

sweetp

I have applied for a grant as an independent mature applicant for a masters course. I know I meet all the requirements (age, lived away form parents, income under the limit, progression...) and assumed I just had to wait for my application to be processed. A few weeks ago I got a request for some additional information, all of which I sent them.
One of the things they were looking for was proof of address for this summer - the form stated one of a tenancy agreement, a utility bill in my name, or a letter form a government department. I sent them a letter form the department of social protection, (dated July) along with everything else they asked for.
I'm now after receiving a request for a utility bill for may parents address (not a problem, but why not ask for it the first time) and also, specifically, a utility bill in my name for the summer. I do not have a utility bill or a tenancy agreement. Are they allowed to pick and choose which of the options they want? I presumed once I could satisfy one of the documents required that would be enough.
I only got this letter this weekend as the grant office are using my summer address and not my term address, but it is dated about 2 weeks ago. I will phone them tomorrow, if I can get through to anyone, but I would like to know if they can demand a utility bill.
Please help - I really need this grant.

goat2

they can and do,did you say you were not residing with parents, that you were living in rented acommodation, you would have an esb or phone or gas or oil bill for that place you rented.i do know they do ask for a bill,

p28559

i think that 5 or 6 different proofs are listed on the form. i would have thought that you would need the majority of them to prove your case and not just one.

why dont you have a utility bill or a letting agreement?
nothing...not even a broadband bill or a mobile phone bill or a gym membership.......you must have something.

the difference in the grant value makes this this holy grail of grants...and hard to achieve for that reason

sweetp

Mobile phone bills and gym membership are not utility bills. I have offered bank statements, car insurance bills, heath insurance bills.... but they are not accepted. I had no letting agreement, and did not have my name on a bill as I was only there for 3 months, knowing I would be moving for the course. I thought I already had all the documentation in order, which is proof of residency last October. Now they are interested in where I spent the summer.

Annasopra

sweetp wrote: »

I have offered bank statements, car insurance bills, heath insurance bills.... but they are not accepted.

why are they not accepted?

sweetp

Because they are not utility bills. This is my problem. They are insisting on a utility bill. I simply don't have one. I am eligible under every single requirement. I am just missing this one piece of paper that is not listed anywhere as essential. It is on a list with a whole lot of other suggested things. I have offered them a letter from a government department, as per the list, and as per the first request for additional documentation they sent me. Now they have come back and said it MUST be a utility bill.

Yag reuoY

sweetp wrote: »

Because they are not utility bills. This is my problem. They are insisting on a utility bill. I simply don't have one. I am eligible under every single requirement. I am just missing this one piece of paper that is not listed anywhere as essential. It is on a list with a whole lot of other suggested things. I have offered them a letter from a government department, as per the list, and as per the first request for additional documentation they sent me. Now they have come back and said it MUST be a utility bill.

Personally, I'd just fake one. They are deliberately attempting to deprive you of your entitlement.

goat2

utility bills are bills that are to do with a house, like esb, oil, phone none other constitute a utility bill, it is to do with running a home that you rented out, addressed to that house, and belonging to that house

p28559

Johnnymcg wrote: »

why are they not accepted?

they are not accepted with out utility bills as a person can send their bank account statements anywhere. how many students live anyway from home and have the bank statement going to the parents or an older sibling who lives in their own home.

similarly with a single utility bill in the absense of other bills or a lease. i could go home today and have the esb account transfered into johnnymcg, the gas into johnny mcg, johnnymcg could register his car at my house it doesnt mean he lives there.

no one single document ties a person as being ordinarly resident at a house. only a combination of documents can do this..

if you are living independently over a period of time you have all sorts of documents from utility bills to car insurance, maybe a drivers licence, maybe a prescription from the doctor. Deciding officers have some element of discretion when it comes to documents they accept. what they are trying to ensure is that they have a complete snapshot that conviences them that you are what you say you are. and it doesnt matter that you tell them you are a god fearing, clean living, hard working broke student who could save the world if given the grant.....the people giving out the grants are being told they are accountable for the decisions they make or they should be as thats what i hear every day on the radio.....

so if you rent a room, contribute to utility bills but they are not in your joint name, get emails rather than paper bills, pay your rent in cash and dont get a receipt, have your bank accounts at your parents because you tend to move every few months........then your in trouble not only will you find it tough to get independent mature status but also because one day you could return to find all your stuff in a bag the locks changed and a former housemate saying prove you used to live here...:eek::eek:

p28559

Yag reuoY wrote: »

Personally, I'd just fake one. They are deliberately attempting to deprive you of your entitlement.

marvellous insightful suggestion...defraud the state!!

what entitlement?
no one is "entitled" to anything. you apply and your either eligible or not.

Yag reuoY

p28559 wrote: »

marvellous insightful suggestion...defraud the state!!

what entitlement?
no one is "entitled" to anything. you apply and your either eligible or not.

How is it fraud if he in fact did reside at the address mentioned, but simply cannot prove this due to their unreasonable demands?

They are purposefly attempting to deprive people by making stipulations that they know students will struggle with, depite knowing full well they are genuine. This has happened all too frequently in the past couple of years to be a coincidence I'm afraid.

p28559

how is being asked to prove your address unreasonable???

i dont think that being asked for paperwork you reasonably should have is an unreasonable demand.

to fake a document for the purpose of obtaining a grant would hardly be considered best practise..i would think it to be along the same lines as obtaining something by deception....or stealing....or fraud..or one of the other words which might suit..but each to their own.

hope the op gets sorted.

InchicoreDude

Being asked to prove your address is not unreasonable.

The manner in which you have to prove it is unreasonable. Everywhere I have lived the utility bills have always been left in the landlords name but I always paid a share of them. So How can I prove I lived there? By its nature, you are never sure how long you are going to stay in rented accomodation so I always left my bank account details on my home address as I dont want confidential stuff like that going to a place I used to live. They should accept a letter from your workplace stating you were based there - this also proves you were not resident at home if it was not within commuting distance but I dont think they do accept this...

david75

Op, find some way of proving you were not living with your folks in the previous year. I went through this 2 years ago with the cdvec and eventually was turned down for my grant and had to leave my course because I couldnt get the funds. Try your best to get something official from anywhere at all with your name on it. try your best but if you cant get a bill youre kinda screwed i'm afraid. all the very best of luck with it.

p28559

The manner in which you have to prove it is unreasonable. Everywhere I have lived the utility bills have always been left in the landlords name but I always paid a share of them. So How can I prove I lived there? By its nature, you are never sure how long you are going to stay in rented accomodation so I always left my bank account details on my home address as I dont want confidential stuff like that going to a place I used to live. They should accept a letter from your workplace stating you were based there - this also proves you were not resident at home if it was not within commuting distance but I dont think they do accept this...[/QUOTE]


i would have thought and it was experience that a land lord would never leave utility bills in their own name because it the tenants did not pay the bill the landlord would be stuck to pay it. while if it is in the tenants name the bill goes with them.

an employer doesnt know where you live they know what you tell them. the requirements are strict to prevent people prentending they are independent to get a higher level of maintenance. i am not saying its fair or right but if it was too easy to get people would abuse the system:mad:

filmbuffboy

are you registered for a rent tax credit with the revenue comissioners? this would show up on your p21. that is proof that you are living independently.

i didnt have utility bill with my name on it either but as i had registered for rent tax credit with revenue comissioners i was ok.

budweiser

hey guys- new to boards.ie!!

kinda pulling my hair out with regard to student finance for next yr as a mature student!!

I am a 28 year old, currently employed within the HSE and I am looking to return to full time study in 2011. (4 yr degree/i have not done a previous degree)

I have spoken with two Citizen Information Offices and the Fingal County Council,and also have been on student finance websites, but little success has come from it.

It seems that because I will be a 'mature applicant' still living at home I am entitled to very little.

I should just fill you in on my situation:

I live with my mother, father and grandmother- my grandmother has had a series of operations over the past 2 years and she requires me to be in the home with her.

My mother is the only one working. As she has 2 other 'dependents' I do not receive any financial help from her. Understandably, she will not be able to support me should I return to study.

So, the income coming into the household determines what grant , if any, you receive. My mother has quite a good wage so should the council take that as the bench mark I will receive little or no support, even though I will not receive any of this.
I feel this is a generalization and someone in my situation will not be catered for.

What distresses me is in order to receive any entitlement for study you already need to be receiving monetary assistance from the government ie; single mothers allowance, child benefit etc-which is a good thing if you need it or are entitled to it but I cant help feel penalized by Grants section, as I've paid my taxes from the day I commenced employment, and now when I look to go back to education to further myself, there is nothing available for me by way of support.

If I moved out and rented a room nearer to the college before Sept'11 will I be able to get some sort of a grant then, or would I have to wait until the following year after I move to get something?? and if I was just contributing to the mortgage what bills etc do I need in my own name?

any advice'd be appreciated !!
B!

filmbuffboy

if you are made redundant you are automatically entitled to back to education allowance through the social welfare. Of course this could all change with the budget looming over our heads, but as of right now the info is accurate.

To qualify as a mature independent from parents candidate for the county council grant and registration fee, you HAVE to be living out of home from oct of the year before you are applying.

If you apply for back to education allowance with welfare and qualify, you still have to apply for the county council grant to have your fees paid.

The Back to education allowance is better imho. Its 196 a week, and you get 500 euros for books at the start of each academic year. Also its better in the sense that you get paid weekly, instead of three large cheques during the year which would make the money harder to last and manage.

hope this helps.

sweetp

Approved!!

Thanks for everyones help. In the end I got a sworn affidavit outlining the last year - ferry tickets, bank statements showing atm transactions, pay slips, ...absolutely everything I could to show the past year. A lot of it was stuff I had already sent them, but the affidavit explained what each thing was supposed to tell them (I don't think they were abe to work it out!). I also included the utility bill for where I was this summer, which was not in my name!
I handed it in in person, and was told they "don't accept affidavit's", but it seems to have done the trick!
Phoned two days ago and was told a decision had been made, but she wouldn't tell me over the phone. Got the letter today, so now I can get on with concentrating on exams and not on where I'm going to get the E7,000 for fees.

Thanks again