Set my data free!

dynamick

Which data do you think the state should release to the general public relating to its operation of public transport services?

After the Dublin Bikes scheme opened (following a secret contract which even the elected councillors were precluded from seeing), the operating company prevented a 3rd party company from freely redistributing data from its web site showing which bike stands had bikes and free slots.
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/0923/1224255060614.html

Limited & selective data on the operation of our state owned transport companies is available to the public through their company reports and press statements.

The RPA has recently stated that the Luas project cost 728m out of a budget of 775m (including contingency). But I had never heard this figure before and I suspect it had never before been released to the public. I understand that PPP budgets should not be released before bidding but what about after bidding has completed? Or after the contract is signed? Or after the project is constructed? Or 6 years after the project is constructed?

Now RTPI will go live for Dublin Bus, but will the raw data be available to the public to analyse and feed into apps?

Which data do you believe should be available?

I would like to see put in the public domain:
* all raw data relating to actual departure and arrival times of buses and trains
* all winning PPP bids prior to contracts being signed
* passenger numbers per route per month

expectationlost

on what basis are the UK bike data released? do we have the same regs?

foggy_lad

I would like to see arrival and departure times for all intermediate stations for Irish rail and passenger numbers on all routes for all services broken down to individual trains and busses

dynamick

expectationlost wrote: »

on what basis are the UK bike data released? do we have the same regs?

The UK bike data is published by Transport for London but not in raw format. The Boris Bikes API uses screen scraping to provide the data in raw format for apps such as this one:



The British have a site called data.gov.uk dedicated to providing government data in raw format for the public to feed into applications. They hired Tim Berners-Lee to run it.

http://data.gov.uk

BrianD

I think you are talking about two different types of data here. The data relating to a public contracts and operation or system data.

Even if the JCD/DCC contract was fully disclosed the DB operating data is their data and they can decide how it's used. They may decide to make it freely available to one and all or restrict to their own applications. They might want to make their own DB app (which I thought they had but no reference to it on the web site) and make a few more quid for the council.

Whether its Dublin Bus, IR, Dublin Bikes or whoever, the data is useful and of value. They should be able to maximise this value for the taxpayer. An example might be making a free live information or timetable app, for example, that carries advertising. Otherwise you might have a situation where a third party uses public data and makes money out of it by either selling the service or advertising around the data.

smackyB

BrianD wrote: »

I think you are talking about two different types of data here. The data relating to a public contracts and operation or system data.

Even if the JCD/DCC contract was fully disclosed the DB operating data is their data and they can decide how it's used. They may decide to make it freely available to one and all or restrict to their own applications. They might want to make their own DB app (which I thought they had but no reference to it on the web site) and make a few more quid for the council.

Whether its Dublin Bus, IR, Dublin Bikes or whoever, the data is useful and of value. They should be able to maximise this value for the taxpayer. An example might be making a free live information or timetable app, for example, that carries advertising. Otherwise you might have a situation where a third party uses public data and makes money out of it by either selling the service or advertising around the data.

But shouldn't a company or individual have every right to take this data and make something useful out of it (whether it is commercialised or not)? The data is produced from a public body (in the case of IE and DB) that is owned by everyone - everyone should have the right to access this data. To restrict it to just DB or IE would stifle anything innovative that developers might produce. Also the public sector is so ridiculously inefficient that I can't see anything they could create providing any value to the taxpayer.

dowlingm

smackyB wrote: »

But shouldn't a company or individual have every right to take this data and make something useful out of it (whether it is commercialised or not)? The data is produced from a public body (in the case of IE and DB) that is owned by everyone - everyone should have the right to access this data. To restrict it to just DB or IE would stifle anything innovative that developers might produce. Also the public sector is so ridiculously inefficient that I can't see anything they could create providing any value to the taxpayer.

http://www.toronto.ca/open/

expectationlost

BrianD wrote: »

I think you are talking about two different types of data here. The data relating to a public contracts and operation or system data.

Even if the JCD/DCC contract was fully disclosed the DB operating data is their data and they can decide how it's used. They may decide to make it freely available to one and all or restrict to their own applications. They might want to make their own DB app (which I thought they had but no reference to it on the web site) and make a few more quid for the council.

Whether its Dublin Bus, IR, Dublin Bikes or whoever, the data is useful and of value. They should be able to maximise this value for the taxpayer. An example might be making a free live information or timetable app, for example, that carries advertising. Otherwise you might have a situation where a third party uses public data and makes money out of it by either selling the service or advertising around the data.

so don't put advertising on it

BrianD

smackyB wrote: »

But shouldn't a company or individual have every right to take this data and make something useful out of it (whether it is commercialised or not)? The data is produced from a public body (in the case of IE and DB) that is owned by everyone - everyone should have the right to access this data. To restrict it to just DB or IE would stifle anything innovative that developers might produce. Also the public sector is so ridiculously inefficient that I can't see anything they could create providing any value to the taxpayer.

No, I don't agree. Why should a third party be allowed make money out of data that the taxpayer pays for?

There should be no automatic right to data, each body should be allowed decide how they allow third party access to it.

n97 mini

BrianD wrote: »

No, I don't agree. Why should a third party be allowed make money out of data that the taxpayer pays for?

They wouldn't -- they would be making it from a derived work. They'd be adding value if you like.

BrianD wrote: »

There should be no automatic right to data, each body should be allowed decide how they allow third party access to it.

The Americans are very free with data. It stands them well.

Carawaystick

BrianD wrote: »

I think you are talking about two different types of data here. The data relating to a public contracts and operation or system data.

Even if the JCD/DCC contract was fully disclosed the DB operating data is their data

from the first line of the dublin bikes terms and conditions:
"dublinbikes is a public service ("the service") offered by the City of Dublin"

If it's a public service, then the data should be free. same as in the USA.

mackerski

dynamick wrote: »

Which data do you think the state should release to the general public relating to its operation of public transport services?

• Locations, names (ha!), reference numbers, and shelter/bench/Kassel kerb info for all stops
• Routing information for every route and variant, at least as a stop list
• Timetable data for each route (and ideally stop, not that that exists)
• Real-time timetabling data, either as due time at stop and/or vehicle location

Much of this information could currently be scraped (i.e. infringed) from the Dublin Bus web site, but for OpenStreetMap purposes we have to go by the book, so progress is slower than it could be.