Fantasy Finance Minister

padrepio

Presuming there is no way we can restructure with bondholders or the EU (personally if I was Finance minister I'd tell the EU to go f*ck themselves, they have a lot to lose to if Ireland started making noise about leaving the euro or indeed the EU...but anyway.....)

what reforms would you make to make the necessary cuts

I read a report that suggested free fees didnt actually cost that much but one scheme I'd love to pass would be that those who did their leaving cert in a private fee paying secondary school would have to pay fees in university. I think it is pretty fair, if you can afford to pay fees at second level you can afford to pay it at third level. Would also probably cripple the educational apartheid in time which wouldnt be a bad thing either.

60,000 students did the leaving last year - if 20% of them went to a fee paying school - 12,000 * 1500 = 18m - small change in the greater scheme of things but definitely worthwhile.

Any other constructive ideas?

gurramok

What have you got against the EU? They are funding us indirectly right now via ECB, keeping us afloat

The cuts have been debated to death is a rake of active threads already.

Yes, introduce fees for students whose families can afford them. Slash the wages of teachers\lecturers to bring their pay levels within the norm of our neighbours. No need to pay a primary school teacher at average of 60k.

padrepio

gurramok wrote: »

What have you got against the EU? They are funding us indirectly right now via ECB, keeping us afloat

The cuts have been debated to death is a rake of active threads already.

Yes, introduce fees for students whose families can afford them. Slash the wages of teachers\lecturers to bring their pay levels within the norm of our neighbours. No need to pay a primary school teacher at average of 60k.

The EU essentially dont have our national interest at hear. These cuts will only depress growth for 10 years which is good for German bondholders who will be getting a steady income stream but bad news for our country imo. There is a global currency war on at present, if our politicans had any backbone they would start making some noise about leaving the euro if even to secure a better deal for our country. Without investment (dumping money in Anglo is not investment) this country is finished. Cuts and tax increases will not stimulate growth. (Dont want to get into this discussion by the way)

not sure about merely cutting teachers salaries. They have been cut a fair bit. I think the pay scales of all public sector employees should be changed though. A nurse, teacher, guard etc starting wage should be about 25k or less, basic supply and demand - there is huge demand for these jobs now and has been for sometime so naturally their entry wage should drop. Maybe instigate a mass early retirement scheme for public sector employees and replace them with new young blood on lesser wages. The young blood will be delighted to have jobs, the older ones might take the hint to leave now before further pain

gurramok

padrepio wrote: »

The EU essentially dont have our national interest at hear. These cuts will only depress growth for 10 years which is good for German bondholders who will be getting a steady income stream but bad news for our country imo. There is a global currency war on at present, if our politicans had any backbone they would start making some noise about leaving the euro if even to secure a better deal for our country. Without investment (dumping money in Anglo is not investment) this country is finished. Cuts and tax increases will not stimulate growth. (Dont want to get into this discussion by the way)

You don't get it do you? The bank stuff has been added to the national debt, paying the public sector/welfare has not been added as the money is mostly borrowed from the financial markets. Its based on day-to-day revenues.

If the cuts don't happen, how we will pay the public sector & welfare? Where does the money come from?

padrepio wrote: »

not sure about merely cutting teachers salaries. They have been cut a fair bit. I think the pay scales of all public sector employees should be changed though. A nurse, teacher, guard etc starting wage should be about 25k or less, basic supply and demand - there is huge demand for these jobs now and has been for sometime so naturally their entry wage should drop. Maybe instigate a mass early retirement scheme for public sector employees and replace them with new young blood on lesser wages. The young blood will be delighted to have jobs, the older ones might take the hint to leave now before further pain

Its a good idea but that will take a generation to implement but we don't have time for that as the money to pay the existing lot has to come from somewhere. Problem is not with new entrants as per se nor existing temps, its the full timers on huge wages who will not budge.

On the euro. we have more to lose by leaving that staying in it and I'd reckon the brains in Brussels have figured out that avenue of blackmail!

ei.sdraob

padrepio wrote: »

personally if I was Finance minister I'd tell the EU to go f*ck themselves

The current 3% deficit by 2014 plan is actually a second iteration, the original plan was 3% by 2013

if we go again to EU to change/extend our plan, whatever little credibility remains will be pissed away

without credibility good luck borrowing on the markets at anything approaching reasonable rates

padrepio

ei.sdraob wrote: »

The current 3% deficit by 2014 plan is actually a second iteration, the original plan was 3% by 2013

if we go again to EU to change/extend our plan, whatever little credibility remains will be pissed away

without credibility good luck borrowing on the markets at anything approaching reasonable rates

the irish economy has no credibility at present - it is a basket case. Do you think our current borrowing rates are acceptable? I appreciate that attempts are needed to balance the books which is the reason for this thread but seperate to that growth needs to be stimulated by investment. Tax hikes and expenditure cutting will not promote growth.

not too many ideas about what cuts should be made

ei.sdraob

padrepio wrote: »

the irish economy has no credibility at present - it is a basket case. Do you think our current borrowing rates are acceptable? I appreciate that attempts are needed to balance the books which is the reason for this thread but seperate to that growth needs to be stimulated by investment. Tax hikes and expenditure cutting will not promote growth.

not too many ideas about what cuts should be made

You do realise that borrowing alot and high rates are related?

borrowing even more on top of the 20 billion we already using to "stimulate" the economy via direct injection into welfare/public purses will send rates sky high

our expenditure is still at bubble levels, there is simply no choice but to cut, the alternative is dropping out of euro and devaluing, pick your poison

we wasted 2 ****ing years with arguments like yours, could have been well on the way back to growth like the rest of the world by now, instead we keep digging deeper and borrowing more

whats the point of borrowing more if the money will just go straight out the economy and you endup with a high interest bill suppressing growth in longterm

our problem is debt, even more debt is not the solution

padrepio

ei.sdraob wrote: »

You do realise that borrowing alot and high rates are related?

borrowing even more on top of the 20 billion we already using to "stimulate" the economy via direct injection into welfare/public purses will send rates sky high

our expenditure is still at bubble levels, there is simply no choice but to cut, the alternative is dropping out of euro and devaluing, pick your poison

we wasted 2 ****ing years with arguments like yours, could have been well on the way back to growth like the rest of the world by now, instead we keep digging deeper and borrowing more

whats the point of borrowing more if the money will just go straight out the economy and you endup with a high interest bill suppressing growth in longterm

our problem is debt, even more debt is not the solution

aside from your nauseating tone, if you bothered reading this thread again the whole aim was to identify opportunties where cuts can be made. if you want to suggest some.......

debt by itself is not a huge problem if the repayments can be made. take the example of arsenal fc, they borrowed millions to build the emirates stadium putting the club in serious debt. with the new stadium though their cash flow has greatly increased so meeting the repayments hasnt been a huge issue. Debt is fine, as long as the funds were used to invest in strategic infrastructure with the possibility to create some returns - not anglo irish bank or INBS - that money is gone forever. if you want to pick where 2 years were wasted start with the first cent that was put into anglo without sending in external forensic accountants - that sums latest figure is 35bn by the way

A national fibre broadband network is one infrastructure project we could invest, extending the dart to dublin airport by PPP even if necessary etc etc create jobs, gets people of the dole, exchequer returns are increased etc etc. The markets see that Ireland is actually doing something to get of its arse rather than throwing good money after bad in dead banks.