kenpo karate

Crann na Beatha

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Furious-Dave

Most of the fundamental principles of Kenpo are fine in terms of self defence. However, it can be difficult to find a coach who teaches Kenpo in a manner that is realistic for self defence.
Are you thinking about starting?

Crann na Beatha

This post has been deleted.

Furious-Dave

The best thing you can do is try it out for yourself and if you like it stick with it, if you don't, move on. Do you have a particular club in mind? And do you know what style of Kenpo they do?

Zen65

Obaraten wrote: »

Whats your opinions of it particulary in self defence situations?is it an effective style?

Almost all martial arts have attributes that make them effective in a self-defence situation. By that I mean that a person who trains in MA will usually be better prepared to defend themselves than they would have been if they had not trained in the MA. This should not be interpreted as meaning that a trained person is going to be better at fighting than an untrained person, because once you start comparing two people the equation is very different, and the victor will be the person who has the greatest physical strength, speed, and determination.

That said, the same MA can be taught in very different manners in different clubs. As Furious-Dave says, the real issue for you is to ensure the club you intend to train in teaches the MA as a fighting art, rather than just a competitive sport. Karateka (or anyone training in a striking MA) who only train for sport may well find that in a self-defence situation their training is inadequate, and can even give them bad habits (for example, being unable to actually make powerful contact in a high-stress situation because of poor distance training in the dojo). Furthermore the mental approach to self-defence is not the same as for sport. In a self-defence situation it is usually necessary to limit the range of your techniques, because only very fast high-impact techniques are going to end the fight. Fancy high kicks are just too unreliable to use in self-defence.

So Kenpo, like any other striking art (including other forms of Karate, TKD, Kung Fu, Ninjutsu etc) is useful only if the training is geared to make it useful, and only if you train regularly enough so that the application of the principles is instinctive to you.

Grappling/wrestling MA's (Judo, BJJ, Aikido, etc) equally have limitations in a self-defence situation, though there are particularly well suited to situations where you are trying to subdue a rowdy person, and in close-quarter situations. I believe these arts are more limited in multiple-attacker situations.

The bottom line is that if you choose to train in a MA it has to be because you enjoy it, and if you want to maximise the self-defence benefits then be careful to train in a club which focusses on this aspect of the MA. If the kenpo club enters a lot of competitions I would suspect the training is going to focus on the sporting aspects, and while competing in fights is good training for the stress of a real attack, you need to supplement this with "street"-focussed training to derive the best self-defence advantage.


Be at peace,

Z

Darren Mahony

Hi

My name is Darren Mahony and I am Kenpo Karate Instructor.
Kenpo IMHO is a great system for self defence but of course I am a Kenpo practioner so I am biased. However before taking up Kenpo, I did study other arts, one for 6 years and since starting Kenpo I have never looked back. The key is finding a good, genuine teacher.
There are some "buts" though as I am a realist. Kenpo was the firat MA to be taught in Ireland having been introduced in the early 60's by American, John McSweeny. Mc Sweeny was a Black Belt under Senior Grand Master Ed Parker, the founder of modern Kenpo. Because of this, Kenpo in Ireland has great depth of knowledge in it and a strong history but equally because of this there are many chancers and bluffers out there who claim to have lineage from Ed Parker but never really had much contact with him at all.
Parker's absolute fundamental wish was that his Art never be traditionalised and as times change, Kenpo changes with it! Kenpo Instructors who are stuck in the past and teaching things that are outdated and usless just beacuse the book says so or because thats the way it was done back in the day should be avoided. Everyones body makeup is different and the beauty of Kenpo is that the Art can be tailored to suit the individual and a good Instructor will do this for you and not the other way round, trying to shoehorn you in to doing something that works for them. The other thing a good Instructor will do is fix something thats broken, ie a self defence technique thats outdated and doesn't work anymore because of the inovations other MA's have made and not just keep blindly teaching the same old technique "beacuse".

A good teacher will have a realistic approach to his teaching and use live training, not just monkey see, monkey do teaching. Kenpo is a SYSTEM of self defence and a good teacher will help you develop your own style within the art.
If you tell me where in the country you are I can try and point you in the right direction of a genuine Instructor. Can't guarantee you'll like the classes of course as Kenpo my not be to your liking but if I recommend someone they will at the very least be honest and genuine.

Regards
Darren Mahony
European Kenpo Karate Association

truebluesac

hi oberaton .

i am a kenpo instructor and a student of kenpo . i have studied it and practiced it on and off since 1984 . i have represented Ireland on many occations. as a martial art it is fantastic . as a means of self defence 1 of the best if it is applied correctly ( i was a doorman in rough pubs and clubs around dublin for many years ) it also gives the person confidance that if somthing happened they could deal with it even though the practicition is always encouraged to refrain from using it until absaloutly nessary.

i left kenpo years ago to persue a path in MMA / cage fighting and found that kenpo had well prepared me for this challange . all of my path seems extreem but i have taught people and indeed the majority of people are normal people of all ages that just want to do somthing new and learn to defend themselfs should the need arise . i have since finished in the cage and have returned to kenpo

the key to it all is a good instructor , if you are in dublin i can introduce you to my instructor . he is a down to earth good guy. he has many students who have irish , europeen and indeed world tiltles to their name

Furious-Dave

I also left Kenpo to train in MMA (and Kyokushin). However, I found that my Kenpo training only helped me in terms of posture and coordination. It did not prepare me in anyway for the conditioning of full contact, nor the psychology of having someone actually hitting me hard. I have since returned to Kenpo and as much as I love Kenpo as a system, and as much as I love training in the club that I'm at, I find the training far too theoretical and many of the techniques seem to have been developed in a sterile, safe martial arts laboratory, devoid of any real threat, aggression or adrenaline. A lot of the techniques are also anything but basic, as many instructors claim them to be.

Granted, truebluesac, you did say that finding a good instructor is key, and I do agree with that, and I like training with my coaches, and also think that Mr. Downey is a great coach. But when you say Irish, European and World titles, I have to ask "in what?": point sparring or forms? Or competition where Kenpo skills are actually put to the test?

I'm sorry if this post offends anyone here, or puts anyone off joining a Kenpo club. I suppose I'm just venting some frustration I have with how Kenpo is trained in general.

truebluesac

hi dave , i train with jimmy poland , when we are in the class we hit to feel the technique . so the student gets the conditioning that he requires within the classes other wise he is not well preparred for the outside .

as for my credentals . i was never any good at competition forms or techniques . i am a full contact / continious fighter . which i very rearly see in ireland anymore due to insurance .

as i dont want to turn this into a pissing contest of whos instructor is better or what medals i or anyone else has won , i will remind you that the op was looking for a kenpo club and i was giving him an option and a helping hand if he wanted .

Furious-Dave

Thanks for replying truebluesac. I don't want to start an argument either. In CRX we too make our training partners feel the techniques, and I have heard the stories of how the training used to be decades ago. The OP actually asked my opinion of a particular club and after looking at their website I recommended him to join.
I could go into my criticisms of Kenpo, but you're right, this isn't the thread for that

CRX Kenpo

Obaraten wrote: »

Whats your opinions of it particulary in self defence situations?is it an effective style?

When considering what style of martial art to adopt you should strive to experience them.

In the broadest terms systems vary in emphasis between the ‘Martial’ and the ‘Art’. As Kenpo is designed to adapt to the needs of the individual similarly there is variation in the focus of different Kenpo clubs in Ireland as Darron Mahony has described. Overall this is a strength not a weakness, just be aware that these differences exist.

Go to the club you have in mind. Meet the instructors and students. Get involved. Indeed it is necessary to spend some little time with a martial art. It is only once you feel the changes within your own body and mind that you will have a sense of whether a particular style, club or instructor are going to lead you to where you want to go.

Similarly beware of guys on Boards who enjoy answering questions but do not train. There is a temptation nowadays to flit from one style to another in the belief that you are experiencing the best of all worlds. This is a mistake. Whilst maintaining an open mind you must also focus, accept challenges and train hard. Only through tough disciplined physical experience will you build a true understanding of the martial arts.

Kenpo is an absolutely superb style which for so many has become a lifelong obsession. It is an eclectic style meaning that its knowledge base has been augmented with inclusions from many other disciplines. And it is an analytical art meaning that you will be grounded in proper body mechanics. This is your base from which to develop your own fighting style and to understand those of other men.

Kenpo is under pressure as styles like Krav Maga try to seize the mantle of ‘street fighter’ and that is exactly as it should be. At its core, as Darron mentions, is Kenpo’s willingness to adapt and overcome. This is perhaps the greatest commitment any martial artist can make, where there are no corners of safety but only humility and continuous learning.

Lab_Mouse

CRX Kenpo wrote: »

Similarly beware of guys on Boards who enjoy answering questions but do not train

Beware of people on boards who have 1 post to their name and talk as if they know every thing about anything as compared to regular posters on the SD&MA forum who have a proven record providing advice/tips whether its muay thai,judo,bjj or the deadly dangerous krav maga

themandan6611

Furious-Dave wrote: »

I also left Kenpo to train in MMA (and Kyokushin). However, I found that my Kenpo training only helped me in terms of posture and coordination. It did not prepare me in anyway for the conditioning of full contact, nor the psychology of having someone actually hitting me hard. I have since returned to Kenpo and as much as I love Kenpo as a system, and as much as I love training in the club that I'm at, I find the training far too theoretical and many of the techniques seem to have been developed in a sterile, safe martial arts laboratory, devoid of any real threat, aggression or adrenaline. A lot of the techniques are also anything but basic, as many instructors claim them to be

Furious-Dave, if you dont me asking what were your reasons for returning to Kenpo and leaving MMA ?

smashiner

Hi All,
I joined Kenpo about a year an a half ago, to learn a bit about self defence and I have to say that I think that the techniques (so far) are very practical over all.
There are some that are perhaps a little over elaborate and you probably would not use all of them 'in the street', but the fundamental concepts of the techniques are very good. I am in the Kingswood Club with Paddy Kennedy and Lucy Reid and so far, so good!

DrumSteve

truebluesac wrote: »

hi dave , i train with jimmy poland , when we are in the class we hit to feel the technique . so the student gets the conditioning that he requires within the classes other wise he is not well preparred for the outside .

as for my credentals . i was never any good at competition forms or techniques . i am a full contact / continious fighter . which i very rearly see in ireland anymore due to insurance .

as i dont want to turn this into a pissing contest of whos instructor is better or what medals i or anyone else has won , i will remind you that the op was looking for a kenpo club and i was giving him an option and a helping hand if he wanted .

Does Jimmy still do the training in Ballyfermot? I remember dropping up years ago and he introduced me to the tiger press up(?)...thought my arms were gonna fall off

SBG Ireland

pretty much agree with everything you wrote there 'CRX'.

CRX Kenpo wrote: »

And it is an analytical art meaning that you will be grounded in proper body mechanics

just curious, what does that mean?

truebluesac

DrumSteve wrote: »

Does Jimmy still do the training in Ballyfermot? I remember dropping up years ago and he introduced me to the tiger press up(?)...thought my arms were gonna fall off

hi steve . yeah we have a full time studio in the BLCO center .

agrh the tiger pressup hahahaha

DrumSteve

truebluesac wrote: »

hi steve . yeah we have a full time studio in the BLCO center .

agrh the tiger pressup hahahaha

Might try drop up sometime in the new year if I get a chance

truebluesac

yeah you would be more than welcome . hope to see you in the new year . try get rid of my xmas puddin lol

DrumSteve

Ha same here man got to get rid of the christmas excess

Josh_Calvert

I did kenpo for 2 years in tcd back when....not sure how good the instructor was as I've no comparison to another MA instructor but I remember all the moves for the belt and tag I did and every exercise was always framed in a realistic context.

for self defence a mix of as many styles as you like seems best....boxing is still the best for hand speed and body movement- I did that for a year in college too and it really is an art to get good at.

as ever, best self defence is not being in the situation to begin with.