Fuel prices will go orbital soon and its not because there is a shortage

derry

NB before using any fuel that is not the normal E5 do your own research on the subject as there is no liabilty accepted or aknowelged from me if you go fuel up with other fuels than the recommed fuel types for your own cars and or if you experment on your own cars .EG you experment on your own car with other fuel types at your own risk

The oil in the world is sold in USA dollars and is about ~75 a barrel (one barrel is about ~35 UK gallons)
It seems the USA dollar is going south fast and so the barrel of oil will go to 200 USA dollars a barrel
The result will be for the USA a fuel cost ~$5 a Amercan gallon or ~$6 a USA gallon still cheaper than what we pay in Irl about ~$10 a UK gallon

However it is to be expected that the Euro also will tumble in value for various reasons and so expect the fuel prices to rise a lot maybe not as much as the USA but maybe as much 2.20 Euros a liter in Ireland by July 2011 (one liter of fuel in Ireland even if the oil companies gave to us for free has a 0.85 cent tax on it so any hike in barrel of oil fuel prices even small ones have a huge effect and can make E5 fuel go to ~2.20 Euros a liter very quickly )

Me I will get my car a junker 1998 Fiat bravo SX 1400 with no E85 kits or mods which runs happy on E85 fuel mixxed with E5 a ratio of 50% will hopefully keep my costs down
So if E5 fuel went to ~2.20 euros a liter my fuel costs per liter would be more like ~1.70 per liter

I hopefully can get my car to run on 100% E85 with no modifications.
My last car a 98 Susiki Swift 1000cc before it was stolen would run on 100% E85 without any major problemsbut a bit soggy on acceleation and cold starts in winter were a bit of issue and car heater took ages to heat up up car
Again that car engine wasnt modified and did 20000 miles with some E85 fuel mixxes in it
However it did run best on a ratio fuel mix of ~70% E85 and 30% E5 fuels with a 10% drop on MPG from the base line E5 fuel

If you do a lot of miles it seems that you can buy a E85 kit for about 600 Euros and run your petrol car on 100% E85 fuel and get fuel costs closer to the price of the E85 fuel probably about 1.20 euros a liter in july 2011 (E85 fuel cost about 0.99 cents a liter in october 2010 but with fuel price spikes going to ~2.20 euros for a liter of E5 expect the E85 to increase also ). I have no idea who sells E85 kits and who fits them and what garentees they have or dont have

Dont say I didnt warn you ahead of time sources for fuel price future comes from sources that has rarely ever been wrong in thier predictions

No I dont sell E85 kits or fuels or cars I am just your typical motorist who is gearing up to have some alternitives before the hammer falls down on us joe soaps. I dont do eneough miles in a year to justify spending money on E85 kits or modifying the engines to run at full effency on E85 fuell mixxes

Good luck for the future motoring which gormless and the green scum bags show are determined to also stick on extra green taxxes on those prices so even ~2.20 mght not be the top figure a liter

Derry

coolbeans

So fuel will jump to $200 a barrel amidst the weakest worldwide economy since the Great Depression. That's a serious assumption you've made there. Also, I think it's a bit of a leap to blame the Greens for all your motoring woes especially when they brought in the current progressive motor tax regime. Fianna Fail would certainly have added extra taxes to fuel as they've bankrupted the country so it's a tired and lazy argument blaming the Greens when things go wrong for Irish motorists. Also, it's very difficult to read your posts without punctuation.

btkm8unsl0w5r4

Yes there is a lot of inflation coming, however I would say that the price of oil has been hedged and optioned well into next year. I doubt we will see such a dramatic increase. Inflation also tends to increase wages. I think with global consumption down at the moment that the OPEC countries will not allow any massive inflation on oil.

coylemj

Your economics are complete rubbish, you're saying that the dollar is going to fall, therefore oil will increase in price, then you say that the Euro is going to fall which will put prices up even more. You obviously don't appreciate that since the gold standard was dropped, currencies are measured against one another so if the dollar falls, the Euro goes up and v.v.

The reason oil is priced in US Dollars is because the US is the single biggest market for exported oil. Despite having lots of oil of their own, the US is the largest importer of oil in the world (the Chinese and Indians use lots of coal) so exported oil all over the world is traded in US Dollars. This means that when the dollar falls, so does the price of oil for us in Europe.

The currencies used in the gulf states such as the Saudi riyal and the UAE dirham are tied to the dollar so the only time they notice a falling dollar is when they go to London or Paris for a naughty weekend because by tying their local currencies to the dollar, they get the same income regardless of how the dollar is doing versus other global currenices.

NewApproach

lol

johndaman66

coolbeans wrote: »

Also, I think it's a bit of a leap to blame the Greens for all your motoring woes especially when they brought in the current progressive motor tax regime.

I don't particularly agree with that. Many would argue that a system based on CO2 emmissions is fudamentally flawed. Of the various exhaust gasses passed out your exhaust pipe CO2 is far from the most dangerous or damaging to the environment. Some may argue that there is a covert agenda to rid the roads of older perfectly good cars to generate higher taxes from VRT and VAT and I'd be inclined to agree.

coolbeans

johndaman66 wrote: »

I don't particularly agree with that. Many would argue that a system based on CO2 emmissions is fudamentally flawed. Of the various exhaust gasses passed out your exhaust pipe CO2 is far from the most dangerous or damaging to the environment. Some may argue that there is a covert agenda to rid the roads of older perfectly good cars to generate higher taxes from VRT and VAT and I'd be inclined to agree.

Ah yes, that's it. Shur it's all a conspiracy, just like climate change and all the rest of it. I'm not going to even go there.

stackerman

The price of fuel IS going to go up, quite a bit if you ask me, and hyper inflation is around the corner. Gold is king again and will continue to increase.

Ignore if you like but youve been warned

johndaman66

coolbeans wrote: »

Ah yes, that's it. Shur it's all a conspiracy, just like climate change and all the rest of it. I'm not going to even go there.

Well please yourself, don't bother. To be quite honest I find your reply rather abrupt and even ill-mannered. You didn't even attempt to counter my argument, just an automatic I'm wrong and your correct sort of attitude. And by the way I'm not one to buy into conspiracy theories either. I'll alwayss striver to look at a particular situation as logically and objectively as possible.

zilog_jones

johndaman66 wrote: »

I don't particularly agree with that. Many would argue that a system based on CO2 emmissions is fudamentally flawed. Of the various exhaust gasses passed out your exhaust pipe CO2 is far from the most dangerous or damaging to the environment. Some may argue that there is a covert agenda to rid the roads of older perfectly good cars to generate higher taxes from VRT and VAT and I'd be inclined to agree.

And the old size-based system wasn't fundamentally flawed? At least CO2 emissions are somewhat related to fuel consumption.

coolbeans

johndaman66 wrote: »

Well please yourself, don't bother. To be quite honest I find your reply rather abrupt and even ill-mannered. You didn't even attempt to counter my argument, just an automatic I'm wrong and your correct sort of attitude. And by the way I'm not one to buy into conspiracy theories either. I'll alwayss striver to look at a particular situation as logically and objectively as possible.

Sorry, I just saw this turning into a debate on climate change, as caused by CO2, and I didn't want to go there.

derry

derry wrote: »

Me I will get my car a junker 1998 Fiat bravo SX 1400 with no E85 kits or mods which runs happy on E85 fuel mixxed with E5 a ratio of 50% will hopefully keep my costs down

Whatever about the rest of the post being looney, why chose a 1.4 Bravo, one of the worst 1.4s ever for fuel efficiency. Fiat garages moved temp sensors to try and stop them guzzling when they were new.

bazz26

zilog_jones

zilog_jones wrote: »

At least CO2 emissions are somewhat related to fuel consumption.

My 2.5 ZT uses more fuel than the 2.2 Prelude, 520 and Celica I had. All of them used more than the 1.4 & 1.6 petrol Rovers I had which used more fuel than my Dad's Accent and the sister's Ka. My 2.5 diesel Merc used more than my 2.0 diesel Rover

cgarrad

Awful post, no facts and loads of conjecture.

Same poster, different topic, same issue.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?threadid=2056069586

skelliser

Who would want to steal a piece of **** 98 Susiki Swift!!

lol!!

johndaman66

zilog_jones wrote: »

And the old size-based system wasn't fundamentally flawed? At least CO2 emissions are somewhat related to fuel consumption.

Agreed there zilog_jones, certainly was. The CO2 emissions are as you say somewhat related to fuel consumption but hardly an exact science either I believe. Also I believe the original mandate was to encourage more environmentally friendly cars on the road with regard to emissions rather than fuel consumption per se. Furthermore I wonder why the new system wasn't rolled out to cars pre July 2008. I personally think that motor tax rates should perhaps be based on the original price or physical size of the car to a certain extent.

coolbeans wrote: »

Sorry, I just saw this turning into a debate on climate change, as caused by CO2, and I didn't want to go there.

Apology accepted coolbeans and thanks. I don't want to derail the thread off the topic on hand either and would rather see us sticking to fuel prices as oppossed to the merits or demerits of new motor tax system, as OP intended. Thanks again, apology is appreciated.

zilog_jones

johndaman66 wrote: »

Agreed there zilog_jones, certainly was. The CO2 emissions are as you say somewhat related to fuel consumption but hardly an exact science either I believe. Also I believe the original mandate was to encourage more environmentally friendly cars on the road with regard to emissions rather than fuel consumption per se.

But emissions are entirely dependant on how much a car is driven. The most environmentally conscious way of motor taxation would be to get rid of the current system and tax on fuel only.

Furthermore I wonder why the new system wasn't rolled out to cars pre July 2008.

Because emission figures aren't easily available for older cars (pre mid-90s), and many people with older cars would be screwed by the system - I'd be paying €447 a year for my '98 Fiesta instead of €310 for example - despite the fact that keeping old cars on the road is much more environmentally friendly in many other ways. It would have been better if people could opt in, as more modern diesels at least could get lower rates.

But as I said before, a fuel-based tax would be better. People would only pay for as much as they drive, and if their car is inefficient or they drive inefficiently they will suffer. And you could have a big old V12 barge for weekends and not have to pay €1600 a year to keep it on the road :cool:

johndaman66

I certainly agree with you zilog zones that it would be better to move to a system that taxes fuel only. It would be the most equitable all round. I can see that €447 tax per annum on a Fiesta is saucy. The other side of that is that €1,566 is pretty extreme for a commercial 3.1 litre Isuzu Tropper if you need to tax it as a non commercial user now. So guess really you won't find a system that is completely equitable to all.

jock101

Oh well back to the 0.5 litre Jap bugboxes, or mopeds!

shedweller

johndaman66 wrote: »

The CO2 emissions are as you say somewhat related to fuel consumption but hardly an exact science either I believe.

Wikipedia says this:

Fuel efficiency directly affects emissions causing pollution by affecting the amount of fuel used. However, it also depends on the fuel source used to drive the vehicle concerned. Cars can, for example, run on a number of fuel types other than gasoline, such as natural gas, LPG or biofuel or electricity which creates various quantities of atmospheric pollution.
A kilogram of carbon, whether contained in petrol, diesel, kerosene, or any other hydrocarbon fuel in a vehicle, leads to approximately 3.63 kg of CO2 emissions.[8] Due to the carbon content of gasoline, its combustion emits 2.32 kg/L (19.4 lb/US gal); since diesel fuel is more energy dense per unit volume, diesel emits 2.66 kg/L (22.2 lb/US gal)

Link:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_efficiency
Link:http://www.ehow.com/how_5151173_convert-mpg-co.html
link:http://co2calculator.wordpress.com/2008/09/01/whats-the-difference-between-co2-and-mpg/
Maybe they're all completely wrong though. It wouldn't be the first time!

waxon-waxoff

I dont know the details of international fuel prices and currencies but i do know the government are desperate to raise taxes anywhere they can. The earlier we have the budget the better so people can get on with things.

If fuel prices go up its most likely to be as a result of increased or new stealth taxes. This is almost guaranteed to happen. I cant see €40k cars getting €156 tax anymore, that was never fair to begin with the old rates being so much more.

I sold my car recently but im no hurry to buy another until the new budget so ill see how fuel and motor tax work out then.

Del2005

shedweller wrote: »

Wikipedia says this:

Link:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_efficiency
Link:http://www.ehow.com/how_5151173_convert-mpg-co.html
link:http://co2calculator.wordpress.com/2008/09/01/whats-the-difference-between-co2-and-mpg/
Maybe they're all completely wrong though. It wouldn't be the first time!

Sorry for going wayyyyy OT.

CO2 isn't the worst thing that comes out of a cars exhaust.

Exhsust emmisions

European emission standards for passenger cars (Category M*), g/km
Tier Date CO THC NMHC NOx HC+NOx PM P***
Diesel
Euro 1† July 1992 2.72 (3.16) - - - 0.97 (1.13) 0.14 (0.18) -
Euro 2 January 1996 1.0 - - - 0.7 0.08 -
Euro 3 January 2000 0.64 - - 0.50 0.56 0.05 -
Euro 4 January 2005 0.50 - - 0.25 0.30 0.025 -
Euro 5 September 2009 0.500 - - 0.180 0.230 0.005 -
Euro 6 (future) September 2014 0.500 - - 0.080 0.170 0.005 -
Petrol (Gasoline)
Euro 1† July 1992 2.72 (3.16) - - - 0.97 (1.13) - -
Euro 2 January 1996 2.2 - - - 0.5 - -
Euro 3 January 2000 2.3 0.20 - 0.15 - - -
Euro 4 January 2005 1.0 0.10 - 0.08 - - -
Euro 5 September 2009 1.000 0.100 0.068 0.060 - 0.005** -
Euro 6 (future) September 2014 1.000 0.100 0.068 0.060 - 0.005** -
* Before Euro 5, passenger vehicles > 2500 kg were type approved as light commercial vehicles N1-I
** Applies only to vehicles with direct injection engines
*** A number standard is to be defined as soon as possible and at the latest upon entry into force of Euro 6
† Values in brackets are conformity of production (COP) limits

From WIKI

derry

coylemj wrote:

Your economics are complete rubbish, you're saying that the dollar is going to fall, therefore oil will increase in price, then you say that the Euro is going to fall which will put prices up even more. You obviously don't appreciate that since the gold standard was dropped, currencies are measured against one another so if the dollar falls, the Euro goes up and v.v.

I really didnt want to get into th big economic story its simple Gold will go orbital hitting $5000 an onze and more and all paper money will go south into the toilet including the YEN YAUN SWISS FRANC STERLING EURO

Its sorta like this if you throw a cat a dog a monkey and a human out of high flying aircraft they will all fall at different speed in terminal velocity eg the cat speed in free fall will be ~60 MPH and the heaviest animal the human will fall the fastest at ~120MPH
However we can say they are all in free fall .
So that where paper money its like these hapless animals is in this time its in free fall .
If gold is reprented by the aircraft the aircraft now lighter from these overweight animils will climb to higher heights even faster

coylemj wrote:

The reason oil is priced in US Dollars is because the US is the single biggest market for exported oil. Despite having lots of oil of their own, the US is the largest importer of oil in the world (the Chinese and Indians use lots of coal) so exported oil all over the world is traded in US Dollars. This means that when the dollar falls, so does the price of oil for us in Europe.

Wrong again It was Henry Kissinger in the 1970 era who went to the Arabs and made a secret contract deal with them that the USA would lways pledge to buy the arab oil if they would always trede oil in USA dollars and would always buy USA Treasury bills. Part of the deal was the USA would deleberatly suppress many oil finds they might find in the future to ensure the USA was always a oil importing nation .
So when the USA found a major oil feild in Alaska that could easily supply the USA with 200 years worth of oil the USA governemnt had those iol feilds capped and the proff for those oil feilds reserves buried in secret vaults

For the oil rich Arabs this Kissinger deal was a great deal so most took it with one exception Hussain in Iraq

When Hussain threatened to start selling oil in Euroes in 2001 ish he was sorted shortly after that and in 2004 hung out to dry .

Dont **** with the USA plans to control the world oil supply and sales in USa dollars or your history

The Shah of Irans replacement the mad mullah also kept the old Kissinger deal
But the new brigade in Iran every time they suggest they will sell oil in other Currencies than the USA dollar on the Iran oil burse the USA war drums ramp up big time.

coylemj wrote:

The currencies used in the gulf states such as the Saudi riyal and the UAE dirham are tied to the dollar so the only time they notice a falling dollar is when they go to London or Paris for a naughty weekend because by tying their local currencies to the dollar, they get the same income regardless of how the dollar is doing versus other global currenices.

[/QUOTE]


Wrong again .The oil rich Arabs are getting fed up with the toilet paper value of the USA dollar now worth with inflation over time some ~4 cents compared to it original value of 1 USA dollar in 1913 when it first started life as the USA reserve note dollar.
The arabs have seen clearly that paper money is going the way of the Do Do and they will opt out from the old deals soon

Then the oil rich rabs will demand only gold silver or stuff they need like food in trade swops for oil

However in the short run next year 2011 while paper money is marginaly worth more than toilet paper oil will continue to increase in costs for that year


Derry

The Nipp

E85 has gone up to 111.9c/l and 114.9c/l up from 105.9 and 101.9 at the places i usually get it. the most I have tried to mix in was around 30% with no problems


the problem with E85 is... there is just not enough of it to go around

derry

RoverJames wrote: »

Whatever about the rest of the post being looney, why chose a 1.4 Bravo, one of the worst 1.4s ever for fuel efficiency. Fiat garages moved temp sensors to try and stop them guzzling when they were new.

A freind gave me the car for free with 40k on the clock and a new timng belt and new tyres after jippo twots with no car theif standards in Limerick stole my granny mobile Susiki Swift.
No self respecting Dublin Car theif would steal that type of car but seems in Limerick they can only steal older smaller cars the bigger stuff is too hard forthem to steal or drive

Yeah that Fiat thing eats E5 fuel compared to my Susiki swift

Susiki swift around town about ~40mpg
Fiat bravo around town about ~34MPG eg ~25% less MPG

Susiki swift highway 55 mph about ~55 mpg
Fiat bravo highway 55 mph about~ 43 MPG eg ~25% less MPG


But compared to many cars its not too bad on MPG if you dont have a heavy right foot

The Fiat sure likes a blend of 50% E85 in the mix for acceleraton but seems to lose ~20 MPG using E85 mixxes compared to my Susiki Swift which lost about 10% MPG

Derry

derry

johndaman66 wrote: »

I don't particularly agree with that. Many would argue that a system based on CO2 emmissions is fudamentally flawed. Of the various exhaust gasses passed out your exhaust pipe CO2 is far from the most dangerous or damaging to the environment.
...snip....

So I take it when we all change to usng horses and carts you then say the gasses from the horse rear end are gonna kill us

Get real we all breath out CO2 gas .Plants then use CO2 to make food and trees and so forth so its a harmless trace gas

OH you mean that fake CO2 will cook our goose agenda and they got caught out faking the temperture data in the Copehagen meeting.
and thankfully the green fashist movement to tax us to death and stop us driving any cars with fake CO2 taxes was stopped in its tracks

Lets just say I proved to the green sections in the Boards that CO2 didnt make the world hot and was a harmless gas
Finnaly when they couldnt disprove my argument was in fact correct they opted for the good old green fashist argument ban the truth so they banned me for life from the green section of boards

So its simple this place is for motors and if you want to descuss the CO2 is a deadly gas get you green faschist freinds to undo that fachist ban and we can meet there in the green forum
That will let me continue to educate you green guys on the error of your logic and taxxing fuels which we need to go to work etc and not clutter this car lovers forum with the green fashist justifing taxxes on fake green puke

If you cant get the fashist greens in the green section of boards to undo that ban then its simple
I say CO2 is harmeless and you say it goona cook our goose and that the debate over done and dusted

Derry

johndaman66

^^^^Derry with all due respect I seriously don't know why your lashing out at me. It would seem to me that you either misread my post or else seen I had mentioned CO2 gas and automatically went off on one without reading the rest of my post but I said:-

johndaman66 wrote: »

Of the various exhaust gasses passed out your exhaust pipe CO2 is far from the most dangerous or damaging to the environment.

which I believe is broadly in line with your point of view? Perhaps I'm missing something?

Btw, I reckon at this stage in my life I've probably being called a lot of things but doubted if greenie was ever one of them;)

shedweller

Ah but you see, carbon taxes are here so they HAVE to play up the CO2 thing. To make money.
Derry, no doubt you have heard of the Dow/Gold ratio? I too believe the bottom is not here yet. That terrifies me.
Your point about the hidden oil reserves is more than likely true. I wouldn't call it a conspiracy either. Just good business!
If fuel prices go orbital soon then i'll be grand! Well, my d4d yaris will be grand, i'll probably freeze to death in my old do-er upper i bought at the top of the wave!
I have to say though; it's one helluva thread! It's related to motors alright but applies to a whole lot more IMO.