Still Netting

TimMac

Local river was netted last night was out walking dogs along river bank and found a few salmon heads & tails on the bank along with drag marks.
Its sickening to think a fella pays his licence fee of e60 & whatever the fishing permits are for the year & individuals are out there doing this to our rivers
:mad:

bitemybanger

Did you report it to the fisheries board or the guards?
What river?

TimMac

yes always do. I rang three fisheries officers one got back to me, he said there is noone working in cork this weekend but he said he would go there himself because he fishes there. He did a bit of surveillance on the place last night, must give him a ring later on to see how they got on?

I am going to organise some CCTV for him now next week that might have recorded them going there, hopefully!!!

A River in West Cork, would rather not say where because i live near it!

bitemybanger wrote: »

Did you report it to the fisheries board or the guards?
What river?

bitemybanger

Unfortunatly, unless theirs CCTV pointing at the spot on the river which was netted you would be wasting your time, maybe a car reg might be useful to watch out for if thier at it again.
Would be almost impossible to get a result unless they were caught in the act.

TimMac

Oh I know but at least the CCTV would identify who is doing it.

No car these are Slack Jawed Yokels id say and were on foot!!!

bitemybanger wrote: »

Unfortunatly, unless theirs CCTV pointing at the spot on the river which was netted you would be wasting your time, maybe a car reg might be useful to watch out for if thier at it again.
Would be almost impossible to get a result unless they were caught in the act.

Kess73

Hope you get lucky and get them caught for it. Bloody hate that shyte.:mad:

TT09

all eastern europeans should be banned from fishing in ireland they eat everything they catch no matter how small, starving animals.:mad:

aidanf

TT09 wrote: »

all eastern europeans should be banned from fishing in ireland they eat everything they catch no matter how small, starving animals.:mad:

This is a narrow-minded generalization.

As a counter-point example, Ireland’s Polish Fishing Club seem to be doing a good bit to encourage catch-and-release. I've seen a few pike fishing videos from them on youtube where they strongly emphasize catch and release and they seem to be trying to educate people to this philosophy.

Also, http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/0510/1224270050249.html

TT09

aidanf wrote: »

This is a narrow-minded generalization.

As a counter-point example, Ireland’s Polish Fishing Club seem to be doing a good bit to encourage catch-and-release. I've seen a few pike fishing videos from them on youtube where they strongly emphasize catch and release and they seem to be trying to educate people to this philosophy.

Also, http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/0510/1224270050249.html

this isn't narrow-minded what so ever, the majority of our eastern neighbour's never catch and release, i have seen this for myself on rivers and lakes around the country,a few fishing video's from youtube isn't really going to prove much when i have seen first hand what these scruff's get up to.

coolwings

Hey TT09: Have you never been on a salmon river and seen the Irish netting and strokehauling like every fish is a banknote to be taken and sold?

Also I know some Polish pike anglers who removed an illegal net out of Lough Ennell not so long ago, a net set there by Irish locals in case you're wondering!

fontanalis

TT09 wrote: »

all eastern europeans should be banned from fishing in ireland they eat everything they catch no matter how small, starving animals.:mad:

Give me a break, if you think illegal fishing only arrived with Eastern Europeans (East of where by the way) you are sadly mistaken. Look at the mess made of irish salmon stocks with legal fishing. Illegal fishing and legal overfishing in Ireland represents the backward attitude and inability to look a few steps ahead that has ireland where it's at now.

TT09

didn't mean to upset anyone but i'm only telling of thing's i have seen over the year's i have been fishing, and in the o.p case it could have been irish who were netting who's to know unless they're caught.

seamusmcspud

I thought that was very harsh TT09. Blame everything on someone else????
I think that you'll find that most salmon poaching is done by Irish lads ... netting, stroke hauling or whatever it takes. Horrible stuff!!! The Eastern Europeans that I know are as ashamed of their countrymen doing wreck as we are ours!!

TimMac

Its unfair to say every "eastern europeans" rape and pillages Irish rivers, this was a problem long before their arrival.

I do believe a certain amount of these "eastern europeans" are involved in a lot of illegal fishing i.e. fishing without licence/permits/outside the season more so than netting. last saturday the 23rd of October for example I walked past two "eastern european" gentlemen happy out fishing away for salmon in the lee fields & having a chat in their native tongue.

whereas their Irish counterparts do theirs under cover of darkness with nets.
give me the "eastern european" with his fishing rod any day as opposed to FCUKING NETS!!! :mad:

surripere

Did the original poster ever state the nationality of these poachers or did i miss something? Pretty much all poaching done by the Irish is of this kind i.e. salmon. I'd be very worried if the fns were in on this as well. TT09s point is factual, to use an example of a couple of catch and release Poles to refute it is frankly laughable and quite worrying. Pls stop peddling this pc poppycock ppl. The simple, irrefutable fact is that the vast majority of East Europeans do not practice catch and release, which is of great detriment to our native fish stocks.

bitemybanger

TT09 wrote: »

all eastern europeans should be banned from fishing in ireland they eat everything they catch no matter how small, starving animals.:mad:

Comments such as this won't be tolerated on the forum. Not deleting the post as a warning to others.
A small amendment will be made to the charter specifying this a little clearer.

fontanalis

surripere wrote: »

Did the original poster ever state the nationality of these poachers or did i miss something? Pretty much all poaching done by the Irish is of this kind i.e. salmon. I'd be very worried if the fns were in on this as well. TT09s point is factual, to use an example of a couple of catch and release Poles to refute it is frankly laughable and quite worrying. Pls stop peddling this pc poppycock ppl. The simple, irrefutable fact is that the vast majority of East Europeans do not practice catch and release, which is of great detriment to our native fish stocks.

PC poopycock, give me a break, someone posted before about Eastern Europeans being fined for fishing illegally and proper order.
TT09 said all Eastern Europeans should be banned from fishing. Going by that logic no Irish people should be fishing. Take it from someone who lived beside a great salmon river, Irish people will pillage every last fish they can get. I don't doubt for a second that there are Eastern Europeans fishing illeagally and I hope they are caught and fined heavily but the idea that they are the only people doing it is nonsense and part of the "it's someone elses fault'" meme that's partly why irelands in a heap.

TimMac

I dont know what nationality the people that netted my local river nor do I care being honest netting is netting in my book, does it matter if theyre Irish or non nationals?

I spent nearly every day of the season just gone on the river bar 20 days (not an exxageration folks ), I landed four salmon. I pay my licence and annual permits to fish several different rivers, in my opinion its my decision whether or not to return the fish I catch. Catch & release isnt going to drastically improve the salmonoid population in our rivers as much as reducing netting. I returned one of the four salmon I caught this year. Who knows how many salmon were in that net the last night 10, 20, more!!!I walked the river again today to see if I could spot any nets put out.The fact of the matter is we shouldnt have to do this. But unfortunately unless we do noone will.

surripere wrote: »

Did the original poster ever state the nationality of these poachers or did i miss something? Pretty much all poaching done by the Irish is of this kind i.e. salmon. I'd be very worried if the fns were in on this as well. TT09s point is factual, to use an example of a couple of catch and release Poles to refute it is frankly laughable and quite worrying. Pls stop peddling this pc poppycock ppl. The simple, irrefutable fact is that the vast majority of East Europeans do not practice catch and release, which is of great detriment to our native fish stocks.

ironbluedun

There is definitely a problem with Eastern Europeans poaching and illegal fishing and that is true and must be acknowledged. That’s not getting away from the fact that there is also an equally big problem with Irish people poaching and illegal fishing too, there always has been for hundreds of years.
Traditionally Irish poachers mostly targeted salmon, seatrout and brown trout, and probably in that order of preference. This is a problem that is set to continue and only the law can change this situation.
The truth is Eastern Europeans also target coarse fish; a lot of smaller ‘public’ or ‘free’ coarse lakes are largely devoid of fish thanks to them. This has to be said, some of the more politically correct people are not able to accept it but it’s the truth. The poaching of coarse fisheries is something that was not very common in Ireland in former times.
But really the problem is absolutely nothing to do with nationality. The problem is more to do with lack of fishery protection and proper punishment for culprits, there is no real deterrent. If a poacher irrespective of nationality gets caught do they go to jail? A month in the Joy and a prolonged intermittent fine or reduction in social welfare benefits/payments etc would give them something to think about. There are ways these people can be stopped, just a bit of willpower and thinking needed.

But I do not see any REAL willpower to tackle this problem, the state is governed by the most incompetent and ineffective people we have ever had in our history. REAL measures are needed but will they come? No nothing will be done. The poaching and illegal fishing situation is only going to deteriorate, symptomatic with the deterioration in our society as a whole.

coolwings

Thieves steal portable things of value and things they desire.

Poachers are exactly the same in their motivations.

Now given that Irish are traditionally game fish consumers, this is the reason their criminal poaching element take salmon and trout instead of pike and roach.
People of central european traditions have a greater familiarity with consuming coarse fish and this is why their criminal element of poachers take coarse fish. It's still a case of thieves are stealing what they desire and don't want to pay for.
To even refer to the nationality in the first place gets me riled up because these are all poachers taking what they want against the law.
There is a factor that does not get referred to in these debates and that is that this is the first time coarse anglers have experienced what game anglers have had to put up with for the last hundred years. And hear them whinge!!

Things I have learned:
The fish grow back quickly when the poachers are removed.
The poachers tend to only be removed when the locals band togetehr with the authorities on this.
If people relax after the fish grow back the poachers return. because they are never far away, they are fishing legally the rest of the time until temptation arises again.
Game anglers already know this, but coarse anglers will eventually learn this important lesson: Every sector of society has it's criminal element, and the criminal element of angling is poachers. So the source of poachers is not EE or Irish or any other place ... it's a certain percentage of anglers!

coolwings

surripere wrote: »

Did the original poster ever state the nationality of these poachers or did i miss something? Pretty much all poaching done by the Irish is of this kind i.e. salmon. I'd be very worried if the fns were in on this as well. TT09s point is factual, to use an example of a couple of catch and release Poles to refute it is frankly laughable and quite worrying. Pls stop peddling this pc poppycock ppl. The simple, irrefutable fact is that the vast majority of East Europeans do not practice catch and release, which is of great detriment to our native fish stocks.

Hmm you're confusing the motivation of poachers I think.

What do you call a poacher on a day when he goes out with a rod? Isn't he an angler?

Using a net is an escalation of degree, but the motivation is the same, greed to catch more fish because they are there. Why do they do it? Because they consider fish are valuable to them and are incapable of leaving them behind for anybody else. In essence, they are the greediest of the angling fraternity.

It is like the way shoplifters are a percentage of shoppers. Poachers will always be with us because they are a certain type of angler.

ironbluedun

coolwings wrote: »

. it's a certain percentage of anglers!

Yea I certainly would not confuse anglers with poachers. They are not the same. The original post was about netting, so we are talking about netting not illegal angling methods. I don’t know any anglers who set nets in rivers. Those people know nothing of angling and are purely doing it for greed and money. They are just like the people who set illegal drift nets at sea, they know little of rivers and many of them wouldn’t know anything about angling.

So personally I don’t believe that either type are a percentage of anglers, like its anglers who are netting on themselves. No doubt some anglers have gotten involved in netting but I believe that these are a very small minority. The vast majority of people netting are not anglers as you say they are low life thieves and should be treated as such.

SeaFields

One of the clubs I have been in since I was a child and where I first caught brown trout and sea trout on the fly has folded this season due to poaching. I was in a state of depression when I sat down with a few of the lads and it was decided to call it a day. A lot of work went into the club and the river. Several assaults on members took place this year when confronting individuals stoke-hauling and netting salmon and sea trout (including one particular nasty incident of a knife being held up to a members face). Bailiffs don't have the resources, Gardai's hands are tied. The river isn't worth a life tho.

We love our fishing, we love our rivers. It a fcuking shame. Victory for scum.

TimMac

what river was that seafields if you dont mind me asking?
That is a disgrace but like you said you shouldnt put yourself in danger.

I have also heard that a lot of the salmon being poached in rivers and netted illegally at sea this year are being smoked and exported, surely fisheries officers or another government body could clamp down on this at the smokeries (excuse spelling if its wrong :rolleyes:)

SeaFields wrote: »

One of the clubs I have been in since I was a child and where I first caught brown trout and sea trout on the fly has folded this season due to poaching. I was in a state of depression when I sat down with a few of the lads and it was decided to call it a day. A lot of work went into the club and the river. Several assaults on members took place this year when confronting individuals stoke-hauling and netting salmon and sea trout (including one particular nasty incident of a knife being held up to a members face). Bailiffs don't have the resources, Gardai's hands are tied. The river isn't worth a life tho.

We love our fishing, we love our rivers. It a fcuking shame. Victory for scum.

SeaFields

TimMac wrote: »

what river was that seafields if you dont mind me asking?

I wont say which river it is but it is in Cork. I suppose with the fisheries boards budgets getting smaller and resources getting sparser, incidents like yours and mine will become more frequent.

ironbluedun

SeaFields wrote: »

I suppose with the fisheries boards budgets getting smaller and resources getting sparser, incidents like yours and mine will become more frequent.

100% correct this shyte is going to get worse not better. Doesn't it mirror and reflect a degeneration of society and standards in Ireland today.

coolwings

Seafield:
If your club members sign statements and say they are willing to serve as witnesses, then the board and guards do not have to catch them at all!
I'll bet you already have more than enough reputable reports for evidence just waiting to be written by club witnesses.
The members just don't have power of arrest, but they can still put these guys out of business.

Either the Regional Board or Gardai can bring a prosecution summoning the members as witnesses. This has been done before with "difficult to catch" poachers. In a club there is never a shortage of eyes to see and later to report to a judge what was going on.

The advantages of this is the club does not have to bring a prosecution itself, or incur costs, or the liability costs of losing.
As far as the threats go, all poachers make them when confronted. They also know what the justice system does to people who interfere with witnesses and know that it's better to go down for poaching rather than do anything so rash.

I suggest you have a conversation with the Regional Board chairman, or his IFI counterpart, and also with your local police superintendent. They might have a solution which uses the kind of evidence you already have available.

SeaFields

Thanks coolwings but this season was a heavy straw on an ever struggling camels back.

We had lost several of our long serving members over the last few seasons due to a number of incidents. This season was probably the worst for incidents and too many have decided to walk away, rather than put up with the hassle, for the club to be sustainable.

We have been in contact with local councillors, Gardai and the fisheries board. When I was on the committee I got our plight into two local newspapers.

Its easy to say 'make statements and get the fellas prosecuted' - not so easy when your the guy making the statement. The Gardai openly and honestly said a small fine would be the result of many of the incidents. One of the lads said his wife hit the roof when she heard about an incident and a comment by one of the scum that "i know where you live" or words to that effect. Not many people would be willing to stand up facing that and I don't blame him in the slightest. Looking over your shoulder while fishing is not something that an angler should have to do.

Dusty87

surripere wrote: »

Did the original poster ever state the nationality of these poachers or did i miss something? Pretty much all poaching done by the Irish is of this kind i.e. salmon. I'd be very worried if the fns were in on this as well. TT09s point is factual, to use an example of a couple of catch and release Poles to refute it is frankly laughable and quite worrying. Pls stop peddling this pc poppycock ppl. The simple, irrefutable fact is that the vast majority of East Europeans do not practice catch and release, which is of great detriment to our native fish stocks.

I dont think the lads are being PC. Iv seen what foreingers do right, aaand, iv also seen a chinese in a small westmeath village buying perch from 15 yr old irish lads a few years ago. I know off a group of Brazillians in a house buying the fish from the same young fella's. The laws fishing over in eastern europe are different as regards here and im not denying the 'poaching' being done by them but its a good bit 'closer to home' than ya think too

ironbluedun

SeaFields wrote: »

Its easy to say 'make statements and get the fellas prosecuted' - not so easy when your the guy making the statement.

You hit the nail on the head there. Very easy to make the snowballs it’s another thing throwing them……..

Anglers are afraid to get too involved and rightly so because the law and institutions of the state will offer them little or no protection from the retribution that the perpetrators will be glad to give if given the slightest opportunity to do so.

Again it is up to the legal system to deal with and solve this problem. Anglers are people who are partaking in a piscatorial pursuit they are not appointed to enforce the law. They should not have to go to ‘war’ with poaching scum. Others are paid to do that.
But yes by all means report poaching to the authorities and do what you can within the boundaries of personal safety.

ironbluedun

SeaFields wrote: »

The Gardai openly and honestly said a small fine would be the result of many of the incidents.

Here lies the root of the problem no real punishment or deterrent at all worth talking about. Until this changes (and it could change easily) the situation will only deteriorate.

davidk11811

ironbluedun wrote: »

Here lies the root of the problem no real punishment or deterrent at all worth talking about. Until this changes (and it could change easily) the situation will only deteriorate.

Do you honestly believe it will change? As much as I'd love for it to change, it won't.

ironbluedun

davidk11811 wrote: »

Do you honestly believe it will change? As much as I'd love for it to change, it won't.

of course it wont change....i did not say that it would, i said it could change easily......but can we see that happening eh no not with these useless buffoons running the country.....it possible to commit murder and get out in seven years for good behaviour (as if you were meant to behave in any other way in prison) so if we are so lenient and over compassionate with murderers well its clear we don’t give a fiddlers about the netting scum and they will largely be left to continue...…
the way this country is governed in all aspects is utterly pathetic.

davidk11811

ironbluedun wrote: »

of course it wont change....i did not say that it would, i said it could change easily......but can we see that happening eh no not with these useless buffoons running the country.....it possible to commit murder and get out in seven years for good behaviour (as if you were meant to behave in any other way in prison) so if we are so lenient and over compassionate with murderers well its clear we don’t give a fiddlers about the netting scum and they will largely be left to continue...…
the way this country is governed in all aspects is utterly pathetic.

How bad do you think this will have to get before a change is made?

coolwings

davidk11811 wrote: »

How bad do you think this will have to get before a change is made?

They didn't ban drift nets until east coast salmon rivers were pretty much empty ... :mad:

Mind you that was the drift nets the "government" legalised 20 years ago ..... (cue for chimpanzee noises)

ironbluedun

davidk11811 wrote: »

How bad do you think this will have to get before a change is made?

Presumably what you mean by 'change' is a change in attitude to poaching.

That is a hard one. I suppose when it gets to the stage of acts of violence then those who are paid well to govern might listen. But like everything it takes some form of a tragedy before anything gets done.