Neck Shots

widespread

I have been shooting for many years and have always shot deer in the head or neck. It was the way we were brought up to do it.

The trick we were thought was get in position, setup your gun, and just before you take the animal make a small noise to get it to look at you and aim right for the gullet. I have a 100% success rate with taking deer and I have never last one yet and in all case's the deer drops on the spot.

I done my hcap test 2 years ago and they were adiment that the best way to shoot deer was heart lung area. So I tried this out. Hit the deer in the hearth lung area and he ran like be jaysus into the woods. I spent age's looking for him. and couldn't find him. I went home and got the dog and found hime to be fair not far from where i shot him. but he was in amoungst the tree's and i couldn't see him but with the dog i found him.

So I decided enough with that hearth lung s$%t. I will go back to the way I always done it.

But recently I was reading the ISD mag and there was a company in meath advertising for hunters to sell deer to them. it stated they were looking for clean deer, shot in the hearth lung area and wait for this. " They did not condune the shooting of deer in the head and neck and would under no circumstances accept such deer."

after all this, My question is, What have people got against shooting deer in the head and neck. I think it's the best way to shoot them and they drop on the stop. rather than having deer running into the woods and possibly suffering. All comments and suggestions gladly taken on board.

meathshooter1

+ 1 on the neck shot always prefer them especially with sika who I have had run 100/200 yrds with a broadside shot.depending on conditions my first choice would be the neck,old saying dont try and fix something that aint broken

ssl

widespread wrote: »

I have been shooting for many years and have always shot deer in the head or neck. It was the way we were brought up to do it.

The trick we were thought was get in position, setup your gun, and just before you take the animal make a small noise to get it to look at you and aim right for the gullet. I have a 100% success rate with taking deer and I have never last one yet and in all case's the deer drops on the spot.

I done my hcap test 2 years ago and they were adiment that the best way to shoot deer was heart lung area. So I tried this out. Hit the deer in the hearth lung area and he ran like be jaysus into the woods. I spent age's looking for him. and couldn't find him. I went home and got the dog and found hime to be fair not far from where i shot him. but he was in amoungst the tree's and i couldn't see him but with the dog i found him.

So I decided enough with that hearth lung s$%t. I will go back to the way I always done it.

But recently I was reading the ISD mag and there was a company in meath advertising for hunters to sell deer to them. it stated they were looking for clean deer, shot in the hearth lung area and wait for this. " They did not condune the shooting of deer in the head and neck and would under no circumstances accept such deer."

after all this, My question is, What have people got against shooting deer in the head and neck. I think it's the best way to shoot them and they drop on the stop. rather than having deer running into the woods and possibly suffering. All comments and suggestions gladly taken on board.

Just wondering what caliber & bullet your using

kieran1141

have 9 fallow prickets shot this year all shot in the neck except 1 heart and lung and 1 in the back of the head, seen a programme lately where up to 100 deer or springbok a night shot for the european market in africa all have to be shot in head and neck or would not be accepted, they said has to be a clean kill. friend of mine shooting deer 20 years using 25-06 all deer shot in the neck, would have tought this would be more humane.

Tackleberrywho

The only Time I don't take a head or kneck shot is when it is not safe to do so.

Not a fan of body shots myself, destroys too much meat and leaves a very dirty carcass

kieran1141

true tack, but would be tryin to set up in such a way that you would be fireing into a good backdrop when i go in, but if was unsure would take heart and lung shot, they dont run to far with 100g 243, but know you use .308 and ballistic tip ammo so wont be any running there.

4gun

Last year I shot two deer and droped them on the spot with shots to the back of the neck ..just at the base of the skull both under 100yds and from an elevated position this year I have so far shot three in the heart ( twice the bullet passed through and the last one severing the heart from the main arteries) In the case of the two where the bullet went through they both traveled a bit before droping one going almost 100yds and had a bit of a job to find him in dark woods ....I would be of the opinion thatif you are confident to take headand neck shotd then by all means do so.
If animals are wounded because of this practice it is because the hunter is either a poor shot in the first place of compleately rushed the shot

Tackleberrywho

kieran1141 wrote: »

true tack, but would be tryin to set up in such a way that you would be fireing into a good backdrop when i go in, but if was unsure would take heart and lung shot, they dont run to far with 100g 243, but know you use .308 and ballistic tip ammo so wont be any running there.

We'll have to compare notes soon, I'm around tomorrow if you are up for a bit of shooting.
I've no use for a deer at the mo though, i'll help skin etc, however I need no meat. I'd like to get a shot though.

I can provide the transport too, if ya want to take a break from driving and feel like lord of the manor

widespread

ssl wrote: »

Just wondering what caliber & bullet your using

.243 caliber 100 gr. but I have also used 80gr with the same success. I know lots of lads with 6.5 and .308 and 270's but I have shot with my trusty Tikka T3 for years now and wouldn't change for all the tea in china

welsummer

everybody i know , except one, goes for a head/neck shot. The reason he goes for a body shot is because he is crap at shooting and has a much bigger target area. If there is so many people shooting head and neck shooting why have they all got overpowered rifles. I shoot a .243 with a 95grain ballistic tip.

kieran1141

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

We'll have to compare notes soon, I'm around tomorrow if you are up for a bit of shooting.
I've no use for a deer at the mo though, i'll help skin etc, however I need no meat. I'd like to get a shot though.

I can provide the transport too, if ya want to take a break from driving and feel like lord of the manor

sorry about the delay tack went to bed, was up at 6 this morn and was going to go, never turned on computer so did not see your message, have the daughters 21st today so that sorts that for later,would'nt mind the onely reason i did'nt go this morn i was on my own and not in the humor for pulling myself, still never looked at them reds will make it my business to check it out in the next few days, and mabey we'll give it a lash the next day that suites you. And was looking at the other threads and see 1 were no need for 308's and 270's well its what your happy with iam happy with 243 have a friend with a 25-06 i dont like the feel of it at all but ive seen him shoot 2 deer in the back of the head running last year he uses this gun for about 15 year deadly shot, he got 117g hornady ballistic and this year went for walk with him seen pricket i steped out after he shot him in the neck off his shoulder 215 steps, he tells me you look at the deer then the backdrop put up the gun and within 2 to 3 seconds pull,he says he sees him dead defore he fires, he has a great shot i have to say, so its what your happy with.

shedd7

Have to say,with all this head and neck shooting of deer,it's a wonder how the first time failure rate of the HCAP shooting test is so high:rolleyes: Maybe it's only the poor shots who do the HCAP and the really good shots don't bother.

tfox

Having done the Hcap and DMQ level 1 they all teach that heart/lung shots are the way to go, but the 2 fellas teaching the DMQ both advocated the use of neck shots as there own personal choice of shot !!As already said a neck shot animal drops on the spot, whereas heart shot animals can cover some amazing ground, normally through the heaciest of cover !! I always take a neck shot unless it is a long distance shot off the sticks where the larger shot area is handy :-) But def wouldnt rush to take a chest shot if the animal is close to heavy cover. Neck is either hiss or miss, no gut or liver shots !!

Tackleberrywho

shedd7 wrote: »

Have to say,with all this head and neck shooting of deer,it's a wonder how the first time failure rate of the HCAP shooting test is so high:rolleyes: Maybe it's only the poor shots who do the HCAP and the really good shots don't bother.

The HCAP is to shoot Coillte, no other reason.
A deers head is a large target in comparison to a rabbits head.
Placing a round from a prone position at 200 yards or less with a 200 yards zero'd rifle is no big deal.

the HCAP is not a test on stalking, it is a range test & written test on all kinds of deer species.
A good stalker can get well within 200 yards and get a safe, clean, and accurate shot off. The key is practicing on the off season.

But yes, if the shooter is not confident to shoot in the head,(or the boiler house is a better option, shoot in the heart lung

A rabbit is a good training yard, as the margin of error is much smaller

clivej

Well I got this buck testerday. My first head shot at a deer - all the work at the range looks to have paid off. Dropped on the spot. He'd lost half of an antler.

deerhunter1

welsummer wrote: »

everybody i know , except one, goes for a head/neck shot. The reason he goes for a body shot is because he is crap at shooting and has a much bigger target area. If there is so many people shooting head and neck shooting why have they all got overpowered rifles. I shoot a .243 with a 95grain ballistic tip.

Define overpowered Rifle's

clivej

welsummer wrote: »

everybody i know , except one, goes for a head/neck shot. The reason he goes for a body shot is because he is crap at shooting and has a much bigger target area. If there is so many people shooting head and neck shooting why have they all got overpowered rifles. I shoot a .243 with a 95grain ballistic tip.

deerhunter1 wrote: »

Define overpowered Rifle's

Maybe 'cos it's only a ladies .243:rolleyes: he uses. ;)

Tackleberrywho

clivej wrote: »

Well I got this buck testerday. My first head shot at a deer - all the work at the range looks to have paid off. Dropped on the spot. He'd lost half of an antler.

Well Done Clive, his a nice animal.

deerhunter1

clivej wrote: »

Well I got this buck testerday. My first head shot at a deer - all the work at the range looks to have paid off. Dropped on the spot. He'd lost half of an antler.

Nice one

deerhunter1

clivej wrote: »

Maybe 'cos it's only a ladies .243:rolleyes: he uses. ;)

Ya true I suppose:rolleyes:

Tackleberrywho

deerhunter1 wrote: »

Ya true I suppose:rolleyes:

Comparison 110grain .308 Vs 100 grain .223
.308 @100 yards has the same energy of the 100 grain .243 has at the Muzzle

The .308 after all is the Daddy of the .243.

However the .243 is a fine round, my cousin loves his one. I only bought .308 as it's easier to feed and that I have the option of continent shooting.

I'd love a .243 or 6XC for a second hunting/varminting rifle

Nico13

clivej wrote: »

Well I got this buck testerday. My first head shot at a deer - all the work at the range looks to have paid off. Dropped on the spot. He'd lost half of an antler.

nice oone buddy

Feargal as Luimneach

Draw a line from the medial canthus of one eye to the contralateral ear. Do the same with the other eye. The bisection of the two lines is the correct placement for a shot for instantaneous/painless death. Mind you I have only ever shot one animal in my life:D

widespread

clivej wrote: »

Well I got this buck testerday. My first head shot at a deer - all the work at the range looks to have paid off. Dropped on the spot. He'd lost half of an antler.

Nice one clive. brillant shot, what make of scope is that.

clivej

widespread wrote: »

Nice one clive. brillant shot, what make of scope is that.

Thanks for the kind words lads.

The scope is a bushell 6-24x50 4200 elite with target turrets. Great scope for the money, I have another on my cz varmint 223.

meathshooter1

deerhunter1 wrote: »

Define overpowered Rifle's

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fi8gFJPWHcw&feature=fvw
this is overpowered and not a very safe shot (skylined) thank god its america

Tackleberrywho

One of my neck shots with my old Sako 75 6.5x55
And a Nikon 2.5-10x56, I found an old phone today. I'd been looking for it for a long while, I have a few more phones with hunting pics, although my first few deer were pre the digital cam era.:D

ejg

I spoke to a German hunter last year who is in charge of culling huge ammount of deer and boar for a venison processing plant.
Under field conditions they have changed back to heart lung shots and will only process such animals. They reason it with a better meat quality, as the head/neck shot deer do not bleed out as well.

I think head or neck shots are not for every situation and certainly not for every stalker. Put up a deer head target at 150 - 200yds, get a bunch of stalkers and let each fire prone ten rounds at that and then judge the result.
Then repeat on wobly sticks....and judge., judge the percentage of clean misses, jaw shots, nose shots and so on.
Then maybe even try to imagine this test on a drizzly windy half dark evening.
Nothing wrong with neck shots but I think one should practice well and
be realistic about the percentage or chance of failure.

edi

Tackleberrywho

Neck shots to me, are the perfect shot.

i.e, everything goes to plan.
70% of the deer I shoot are neck. 30% would be heart/lung.

Heart lung are fast off the shoulder shots.
Neck shots are my fav from a prone position.
I have shot several deer in the neck where the artery was cut by the vertebrae cutting it. In these situations the deer pumped out blood until the blood pressure was lost.

If you notice one of the fallow doe's you will see a lot of dark red un oxygenated blood in the pic.

Several of necked deer i shot squirted blood up to 2 metres away.
However, If I do not feel confident I will take a heart lung shot (bearing in mind, a heart lung shot is a mess bast8rd when skinning as all the blood is within.
A perfect neck shot will leave a lovely clean carcass. And any arterial or ventricular blood is drained whilst hanging.

saying that, If the stalker is not comfortable with head/kneck shooting, go for heart lung.
i only ever needed a follow up shot on heart/lung shot deer.
I'm not a serious stalker, 8 deer max per season over the last ten years or so.
I only state my experiences, and all my deer were fallow.
I also use now "ballistic tip only*"

*I use soft nose if I have no other ammo available

FISMA

Usually, I will put the 6:00 post of the reticle along the front leg of the deer and adjust my elevation. Works well.

Logically, however, I have to say that I believe the head/neck shot should be the better shot. Better implying: more humane and better for the taste of the meat.

A proper head shot that causes "cranial evacuation" or the removal of the spinal cord will cause almost instantaneous paralysis. Almost, no time to release adrenalin or other chemicals.

Also, a head/neck shot limits the possibility of lead migration from the area of contact to edible meat.

I have read the testimonials from others that are shooting far more animals than I, however, I have yet to see any logic or ideas that make sense to me.

Just my opinion.

welsummer

>Maybe 'cos it's only a ladies .243.

LADIES RIFLE!!!!

YESTERDAY DAY EVENING I NECK SHOT A FINE 8 POINTER AT 265 YARDS.
MY MATE WHO WAS WATCHING FROM ABOUT A 1/2 MILE AWAY SEEN THE PUFF OF HAIR EXIT HIS NECK AND THEM COLLAPSE AND ABOUT 3 SECONDS LATER HE HEARD THE SHOT.
GROLLOCKED HIM AND LEFT HIM THERE AND WENT BACK UPWIND ABOUT 4 FIELDS AND SHOT ANOTHER ONE ABOUT HALF AN HOUR LATER , COMING OUT OF THE WOOD TO A 2 HINDS AT ABOUT 40 YARDS.
JUST AT LAST LIGHT I WAS GOING BACK DOWN TO THE FIRST ANIMAL AND A FOX WAS HAVING SUPPER ON THE GROLLOCK, AND HE PAID FOR HIS SINS.
SIGNED
LADIES RIFLE

Deerspotter

Prices per KG of meat in the game dealer in Wicklow are based on shot position and you get the most money for head / neck shot.

Any hunter I know only neck shoots, as it is a hit or miss with no risk of injuring the animal. If you hit it, it is stone cold dead instantly, if it runs, you know you missed!

The HCAP is for novice hunters that need the larger target area. I still do not understand the logic the the heart lung shot.
You damage the meat from the front legs, the animal will run at least 10meters and in thick cover, chances of finding it are reduced.

On another point, I have been doing a lot of deer spotting this year and have noticed that the stags antlers are generally of poor quality - there are of course some great heads - but less than usual and the majority have poorer heads. Might this be due to the harsh winter last winter?
Any comments on this?

clivej

welsummer wrote: »

>Maybe 'cos it's only a ladies .243.

LADIES RIFLE!!!!

YESTERDAY DAY EVENING I NECK SHOT A FINE 8 POINTER AT 265 YARDS.
MY MATE WHO WAS WATCHING FROM ABOUT A 1/2 MILE AWAY SEEN THE PUFF OF HAIR EXIT HIS NECK AND THEM COLLAPSE AND ABOUT 3 SECONDS LATER HE HEARD THE SHOT.
GROLLOCKED HIM AND LEFT HIM THERE AND WENT BACK UPWIND ABOUT 4 FIELDS AND SHOT ANOTHER ONE ABOUT HALF AN HOUR LATER , COMING OUT OF THE WOOD TO A 2 HINDS AT ABOUT 40 YARDS.
JUST AT LAST LIGHT I WAS GOING BACK DOWN TO THE FIRST ANIMAL AND A FOX WAS HAVING SUPPER ON THE GROLLOCK, AND HE PAID FOR HIS SINS.
SIGNED
LADIES RIFLE

welsummer (now AKA LADIES RIFLE as signed above)

Oh it's so easy to rise people. I was just pulling ya leg

Lets face it ANY center fire calibre is more than capible of killing the large game that you have here in Eire. But it's the law that a minimum calibre must be used and from the humain view point the .243 is well within this region.

ATB - aim small and hang loose.:)

It wasn't me!

Deerspotter wrote: »

Prices per KG of meat in the game dealer in Wicklow are based on shot position and you get the most money for head / neck shot.

Not exactly a great reason for choosing the shot. Hardly ethical.

Any hunter I know only neck shoots, as it is a hit or miss with no risk of injuring the animal. If you hit it, it is stone cold dead instantly, if it runs, you know you missed!

That is complete and unmitigated bollocks. You're not aiming to hit the neck; you're aiming to break the spine. Fluffing the shot will mean destroying the oesophagus or wind pipe, cutting blood vessels which won't lead to a quick kill or just ploughing through muscular tissue leaving a wound which will ultimately kill the animal, much later, through infection. It's far, far from a hit or miss shot. There's no such thing. Likewise the head; it's a much trickier shot than people realise. There's an awful lot of movement you need to be able to predict and even then the target is much smaller than the head itself. Fluffed shots here typically include jaws blown off as the deer turns its head and shots glancing off the skull, taken at bad angles which don't penetrate. The heart-lung is the most guaranteed shot which minimises the possibility of the above happening. It's a forgiving target. That said, seeing the number of peoople who can't get through the HCAP range test, shooting for the heart-lung shot, I don't think most of them should dream about neck shooting.

The HCAP is for novice hunters that need the larger target area. I still do not understand the logic the the heart lung shot.
You damage the meat from the front legs, the animal will run at least 10meters and in thick cover, chances of finding it are reduced.

The HCAP is for anyone who wants to shoot deer on Coillte lands, novice and experienced alike, and not all those failing are inexperienced either. The heart-lung shot is the one that reduces the possibility of a bad shot best; it's therefore considered most ethical. I don't have a problem with short-range neck and head shots by excellent shots who understand the deer's behaviour well, but even they're going to encounter the occasional problem. A proper heart-lung shot, through the ribs, isn't going to damage any real meat, and what it does damage is typically a cut for the mincer anyway. In summary, it's an ethical decision. The head and neck moves an awful lot more than the body shot, most people are incapable of shooting well enough to really guarantee good hits and of those, fewer again understand deer behaviour well enough to predict that movement. Most people are much better served by the easier target, and judging by HCAP results, far more again are best served by time on the range.

kay 9

As above seen an animal with the jaw blown off before and it was not a nice scenario by any means. It can happen to anyone. Animals are not sure bets as to which way they will move.

Tackleberrywho

kay 9 wrote: »

As above seen an animal with the jaw blown off before and it was not a nice scenario by any means. It can happen to anyone. Animals are not sure bets as to which way they will move.

A good stalker, first thing he does is reloads. waits 2-3 mins to see if the animal is staying down. There should not be reason for a follow up shot, however one should always be prepared for one.

I personally use a high mag scope for the purpose of precision. And the rifle is tuned regularly to achieve best results. Neck shots are taken prone only by myself.
I believe consistency is required, firing a rifle 6 or 8 times a year will not make a great hunter, it's hundreds of bunnies and range work that improves bullet placement

Deerspotter

It Wasn't Me;

Thanks for your information. As a non hunter, I only know what hear - it seems that most of that must be bravado!

From the hunts that I have been on, the deer drops on the spot from neck shots, but I would not have any idea about the 'ethics' of such a shot, or indeed the science bit either.

From what I have seen of the HCAPers on the range, I am in total agreement with you that more range time is a must for some.
But it is easy to talk when just a spotter and not a hunter!

No offence meant by my misinformation and thanks again for correcting me.
As a lover of the outdoors, I am happy to know that hunters are so well informed.

Tackleberrywho

Deerspotter wrote: »

It Wasn't Me;

Thanks for your information. As a non hunter, I only know what hear - it seems that most of that must be bravado!

From the hunts that I have been on, the deer drops on the spot from neck shots, but I would not have any idea about the 'ethics' of such a shot, or indeed the science bit either.

From what I have seen of the HCAPers on the range, I am in total agreement with you that more range time is a must for some.
But it is easy to talk when just a spotter and not a hunter!

No offence meant by my misinformation and thanks again for correcting me.
As a lover of the outdoors, I am happy to know that hunters are so well informed.

Deerspotter.
I've been hunting deer many years now, however I was hunting deer 5 years or more before i developed the confidence for neck shots.(And had fired thousands of rounds)

As Edi said, it's a personal choice. A greenhorn is well advised to take a heart lung shot. However some one who has gained the skills and confidence required to dispatch an animal there are several shots on offer.

A good knowledge of anatomy is a help. and a good study of the wound channel after skinning also increases knowledge.

Stalking deer with a pair of bino's is as good as with a rifle, you will learn who a doe barking can make a head change in an instant, or the clatter of a tractor and trailer going on a nearby road.

Stalking is a craft, the easiest part is squeezing the trigger.
The hardest thing to do is not squeeze the trigger. I have laid in wet fields and much for up to an hour to get that shot. Deer in the forefront chewing the cud, licking his balls, whatever.
Learning how animals move developes over time.

To be a good hunter you need to know the quarry.
This developes over time.
However stalking can be practiced on all game as the same skills are required to get close to a fox/bunny/deer. Keep the wind in your face, your footsteps light, and your noise to a min.
keep your silhouette low, follow the ditch line, learn how to cross gates without ring out like church bells etc etc

And try get in close, prone if possible, part the grass/rushes that obscures your view, crawl on your belt buckle, wait until your deer is ready to be shot then WhaaaThuuump

Deerspotter

Thanks for the lovely post - as a spotter - I am expert at 'stalking' and can get as close or closer than most hunters would need to.
The joy of watching a herd interact, especially at this time of the year is what I live for.

To see the stags sparring and roaring and all that goes with it is amazing to me.

Feargal as Luimneach

I find this RPG works well for Heart/lung shots. Kill them instantly:D

kieran1141

Feargal as Luimneach wrote: »

I find this RPG works well for Heart/lung shots. Kill them instantly:D

would think this would just about do the job ok. no need to be ready with the second shot.

yank_in_eire

We always used heart/lung shots back home - best point of aim was in the crease immediately behind the front leg. Miss low and you miss completely, miss high and you still hit the lungs. I took 3 whitetails with this shot - all ran less than 20 yards and the blood trail was as wide as the California freeway.

Mind you, we were using 12ga slugs and they pack quite a wallop:D
This video shows what I'm talking about.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpoVCNwfodo