Helo missing in the Mournes

Klunk001

Reports of a helo missing in the Mournes with multible fatalities:(

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-11613622

Oscar Bravo

Its on the News on Rte1 now.Sad to hear news like that.

Fishtits

Reported as a six seater, left Eniskillen en route to wales, EI reg.

Weather reported as CAVOK, witnesses stating unusual engine noises (pinch of salt etc)

deelite

On Sky news now

Klunk001

N2NR by all accounts.

Steyr

R116 sent up too, possibly for recoveries.

nag

Really hate the way Tommie Gorman described the victims as "monied people" on the news this evening. Maybe it's just me but imo, it's a horrible adjective. There are better ways to get the same point across.

Foggy43

Why not put it that way! It's just one way of doing it. Probably preparing us to be told that one person on board was a high ranking personal friend of a member of the royal family. Fly by helicopter from Redhill in Surrey to Northern Ireland and back is a long trip. Why not use a small jet? Some questions yet to be answered. Were they carrying weapons?
I suppose it is just wait for the PSNI and Metropolitan Police statements.

DeepSleeper

Belfast Telegraph have more details, including one name...

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/uk/princes-shocked-by-friends-death-14985349.html

... And so Foggy43's prediction re. connection to British royal family comes to pass...

DeepSleeper

And the (London) Telegraph has more...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/8084571/Polo-club-chief-dies-in-helicopter-crash.html

Fishtits

Really hate the way Tommie Gorman described the victims as "monied people"

Didn't see his report but if he did refer to them as such then I'm offended. Dead is dead in anyones book. same loss to relatives regardless of status.

nag

Foggy43 wrote: »

Why not put it that way! It's just one way of doing it. Probably preparing us to be told that one person on board was a high ranking personal friend of a member of the royal family.

Fishtits wrote: »

Didn't see his report but if he did refer to them as such then I'm offended. Dead is dead in anyones book. same loss to relatives regardless of status.

My gripe was not with the fact that he described them as having money, it was just the term "moneyed" (if I may correct my spelling) and the connotations I feel that are attached to the term. He could have chosen from a whole host of other more neutral words such as affluent, wealthy, well-off etc. When I hear the term moneyed, I automatically think of someone who is so 'flush-with-cash', they just throw their money around like it's nobody's business.

Ald

nag wrote: »

My gripe was not with the fact that he described them as having money, it was just the term "moneyed" (if I may correct my spelling) and the connotations I feel that are attached to the term. He could have chosen from a whole host of other more neutral words such as affluent, wealthy, well-off etc. When I hear the term moneyed, I automatically think of someone who is so 'flush-with-cash', they just throw their money around like it's nobody's business.

Do you not think that's a pretty accurate description of people who take a nice bit of kit to go shooting ducks in another country? I do...

Either way they've died. Not much difference. I think bigger questions need to be asked. Are there risks in flying near the Mournes? What are they? How to avoid? I flew over them in September and would like to know more! Any pro pilots or mountain experienced pilots got any tips or advice? I'm fixed wing btw...

nag

Ald wrote: »

Do you not think that's a pretty accurate description of people who take a nice bit of kit to go shooting ducks in another country? I do...

To me, that sounds a bit resentful of the fact that someone is able to do such an activity which is exactly the impression I get when someone is described as moneyed. Just because someone is wealthy doesn't automatically mean they're flathulach with their money.
If they would regularly pay for something small (let's say five or ten euro) with a fifty euro note and then tell the recipient to keep the change, then that would be a different story.

As for the accident itself, I'm not sure there's anything to be learnt from it based on the reports. It sounds like it was just a simple case of engine failure unfortunately. Of course, we'll have to see what the investigators come up with. The only obvious tips is to avoid (as best you can) overflying high ground/difficult terrain if you're not able to glide past it in an emergency and to avoid the leeward side of mountains on a windy day.

Ald

I can see what you mean but it does sound like it was a trip of extreme indulgence to me. I can understand why they would be described as 'moneyed'. I don't know any pilots that would go shooting ducks in a helicopter abroad. But, at the end of the day that is what they choose to do and it's an accident that needs to be learned from for everybody's sake.

Klunk001

It doesn't sound like "a simple case of engine failure". At this point it is just to early to tell, all we know is the end result. I will leave it to others (AIU) to figure out what led to this tragedy. RIP.

nag

Klunk001 wrote: »

It doesn't sound like "a simple case of engine failure".

So what other possible scenarios would you infer if there were reports saying that the "engine sounded abnormally loud"?

Thinking about it again, perhaps the pilot stalled the blades? Don't they generate a lot of noise when they stall?

Klunk001 wrote: »

At this point it is just to early to tell, all we know is the end result. I will leave it to others (AIU) to figure out what led to this tragedy.

Like I also said, we'll have to await the accident report for the full story but I don't think there's anything wrong with speculating as to the possible cause.

Klunk001

So what other possible scenarios would you infer if there were reports saying that the "engine sounded abnormally loud"?



And that nugget of information came from.....? An abnornally loud engine, whatever that is, does not equal a simple case of engine failure. I have been to two helicopter crash sites over the years that included fatalities also been the first to arrive on scene and seriously questioning the career path I took, one crash site very similar to this one in the same general area.
I have my own ideas as as to what happened but I am going to keep that to myself, not air them on a public forum. I will wait for the report and hopefully learn something from it. The speculating to the possible cause I will leave to others, thats all it is and in my opinion not very helpful.

nag

Klunk001 wrote: »

And that nugget of information came from.....?

Well, it's the only info that's been reported on.

Klunk001 wrote: »

An abnornally loud engine, whatever that is, does not equal a simple case of engine failure.

Perhaps it was a little naive of me to call it simple, as usually it's multiple factors that have contributed to the accident. So I'll cop to that one.

Klunk001 wrote: »

I have been to two helicopter crash sites over the years that included fatalities also been the first to arrive on scene and seriously questioning the career path I took, one crash site very similar to this one in the same general area.

Wow. My hats off to anyone who voluntarily put themselves out there to do that kind of work. Not a chance I'd be able to deal with those kinds of scenes. Who were/are you with if I may ask? Guards/Civil Defence/Coast Guard?

Klunk001 wrote: »

The speculating to the possible cause I will leave to others, thats all it is and in my opinion not very helpful.

Not very helpful to whom? I would understand if the speculation had some direct or indirect impact on the investigation but in my opinion, it's no different than discussing it down the pub with your mates.

jmayo

Ald wrote: »

Do you not think that's a pretty accurate description of people who take a nice bit of kit to go shooting ducks in another country? I do...

Either way they've died. Not much difference. I think bigger questions need to be asked. Are there risks in flying near the Mournes? What are they? How to avoid? I flew over them in September and would like to know more! Any pro pilots or mountain experienced pilots got any tips or advice? I'm fixed wing btw...

There are always risks to flying in mountains and always a few extra things to consider.
You should always have an appreciation of how the weather can affect your flight path, be it low cloud, rotor, downdrafts, etc if flying near mountains.
Also good map reading can help you avoid flying down the wrong valley which maybe dead end or have gradually increasing ground that your aircarft may not be able to climb clear of.
Also never fly down the middle of valley as leaves less room for turning out of it.
Fly down the side of valley that has wind hitting it as you are not then facing downdrafts. Use the wind to help in your climbs and not the opposite.
Beware of other traffic that route through any particular valley, I have found this very important in Canada and indeed in Scotland where you might have chance meeting with someone from the RAF.
Fast jets and indeed C130s are great to look at, but not when they are coming fast around a corner towards.

Of course since the Mournes are low and if weather good enough you can just fly well clear over the top.
Otherwise just skirt around them.

Mountain flying can be some of the best aviation fun you can have and it is always kinda fun to be looking up at the ground above you, but just remember rock is very unforgiving.

Klunk001

"Not very helpful to whom? I would understand if the speculation had some direct or indirect impact on the investigation but in my opinion, it's no different than discussing it down the pub with your mates."


To family and friends of the deceased, some close to home in this country. A few key words on Google will bring you to these pages.The pilot has still to be indentified, so all of his next of kin have still to be informed. If you want to speculate with your mates in the pub that's fine, there your mates and it's not a public forum. But again were talking about fatalities here. So lets just agree to disagree.

ciarsd

Is it true a Police Helo has just crashed into the Mournes also?

EDIT: http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/1028/mourne_helicopter.html

Ald

Surely, with strong southerly winds and being leeward side of the mountain they might have called off any operation today. Gale force winds forecast today too. Seems a bit silly to me to be there. Anyone agree?

DeepSleeper

More info here...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-11644029

Ald

I wonder is it G-PSNI or G-PSNO? SNO is only a matter of months old.

N7777G

Ald wrote: »

I wonder is it G-PSNI or G-PSNO? SNO is only a matter of months old.

It's been reported to be AS355 G-SEWP

http://www.flickr.com/photos/eigjb/3462611655/

Klunk001

http://www.u.tv/News/Helicopter-crash-victims-lucky-to-be-live/94f23143-e32a-4906-a444-ab3b0eac7831

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-11644029

Klunk001

http://www.aaib.gov.uk/cms_resources.cfm?file=/Agusta%20A109A%20II,%20N2NR%2011-11.pdf