New SMTP settings

cormie

Hi there,
I had an error since last night trying to send my emails from Thunderbird using pop33r.cp.blacknight.com, got onto support in the morning who asked me to try mail.blacknight.com, but that didn't work either, so then I tried mail1.eircom.net, which did work, I was in a rush this morning so couldn't finish sorting it out. I didn't want to stick with eircom as it's given me trouble before on my @eircom address so would like to sort out the blacknight one if possible, I was told the following but had to go:

David
are you able to open up a command prompt We can check your connection to our mail server
David
and hopefully get it working agian
David
again
David
can you try #2 in httpssupport.blacknight.ieindex.php_m=knowledgebase&_a=viewarticle&kbarticleid=161
David
this should test your connection to our email server (and see if its blocked or not)

I'm not too sure what to do with the above.

Also, I think some of my emails to customers are ending up in their spam folder. Is this related at all and how can I stop this from happening?

Any feedback on where to go from here would be appreciated!

I'm using Thunderbird 2.0.0.19 by the way

mneylon

Sorry for not replying sooner - long weekend etc.,

If you catch one of the guys on livechat they can walk you through it for you.

cormie

Eventually got around to getting back on to support. For anyone else experiencing the same problem. The below transcript should clear things up a bit. Yes I like to ask a lot of questions

cormie: Hi there, just trying to resolve this again: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056068622
* Welcome cormie! Your request has been directed to the Technical Support department. Please wait for our operator to answer your call.
* Call accepted by operator Blacknight. Currently in room: cormie, Blacknight.
Blacknight: Hi cormie
cormie: Hi
cormie: did you get the link in the first post there?
Blacknight: I did indeed; could you please clarify what errors you're getting in your email there - and if it's when sending, receiving or both?
cormie: I'm trying to remember now, I think it was only when sending
cormie: would you know the exact settings I should enter?
Blacknight: You can use the following settings:

Mail server (inbound + outbound) : mail.blacknight.com
username: your full email address
password: the password for that mail account
Blacknight: Past that, we would really need the exact error message to see what was occurring
cormie: I've 4 email accounts set up through thunderbird, 3 are hosted on blacknight, ****@***.ie (default), [email]info@*****.ie[/email] and [email]info@***.ie[/email], then I have my @eircom.net address too, thunderbird asks to use a default sending server for all accounts, does this mean I should set an individual server for each account?
Blacknight: As you have them from 2 different services, you would want the ***.ie ones to use mail.blacknight.com and the Eircom one to use the Eircom mail server
cormie: just tried mail.blacknight.com as default and getting an error trying to send again:

Sending of message failed. The message could not be sent because connecting to SMTP server mail.blacknight.com failed. The server may be unavailable or is refusing SMTP connectiongs. Please verify that your SMTP server setting is coirrect and try again or else contact your network admin.
Blacknight: Okay; and what port do you have it set to send through?
cormie: all ports on server setting tabs for all emails are 110, on outgoing SMTP it's 25
Blacknight: Could you try changing all of the outgoing mail servers to mail1.eircom.net please
cormie: yeah, I had to do that after you first changed the server thingy on your side, which was about 2 weeks ago, and it's been fine since, but I'm worried that some of the mails I'm sending customers are ending up in their spam folder and this may be a reason why
Blacknight: Sending mail via Eircoms mail server will not cause you to end up on a spam list, cormie
Blacknight: If you want, you can check your own IP address against common blacklists at http://mxtoolbox.com/blacklists.aspx
Blacknight: You can get your own IP address at http://www.whatismyip.com/
cormie: I'm on 5 blacklists , Barracude, Casa-CBL, CASA-CDL, RATS-Dyna, spamhaus-Zen
Blacknight: In this case; all the listings except for the Barracuda one appear to be normal and can be ignored - there should be no reason why your IP would be blocked from any of the others
Blacknight: The Barracuda one may cause some issues; but would outright block the mail rather than cause it to appear in a spam folder
Blacknight: So you would get notified it had been blocked
cormie: right, well I've never been notified yet. this guy recommends to use blacknight as opposed to eircom for mail: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056089980 post 2
cormie: have you any idea why the mail isn't sending with these settings? I just received a mail to [email]info@***.ie[/email], but can't send any
Blacknight: Eircom actually block port 25 across large segments of their network, cormie - which appears to be what is happening here
Blacknight: This is why I had suggested switching to the Eircom mail server
Blacknight: Your IP address isn't reaching us at all, which I checked from the mail server side - this means that you would need to use Eircom's as they allow anyone on their IP range to send from it without issue
Blacknight: Unfortunately there is little we can do to assist with this as this is a block from the Eircom side.
cormie: strange, so I need to switch to eircom, just for the eircom one, or for all of them?
cormie: switched the @eircom address to use eircom server, still same problem sending from [email]info@****.ie[/email]
Blacknight: Okay; in that case it could well be an anti-virus or internet security package blocking port 25
Blacknight: Do you have any anti-virus or internet security tools installed?
Blacknight: Such as firewalls, etc
cormie: but doesn't the eircom server also use port 25, so how could this be it if I never had the issue before, by the way, before changes were made at your end, I was using pop33r.mail.blacknight.com with no problems, or whatever the address was, I forget exactly
Blacknight: Are you able to send mails through the Eircom mail server from any accounts at the moment
Blacknight: ?
cormie: yes, all accounts were using eircom server without any problems
cormie: have temporarily switched back to blacknight now while trying to sort the problem
Blacknight: And now, with it set to use the Eircom server - it's not working, yes?
cormie: it's set to use the blacknight server now while testing, except the @eircom address is set to use the eircom server, but the blacknight domain mails still dont' work with this set
Blacknight: Okay, that's not what I asked you to test, sorry Corma
Blacknight: cormie*
cormie: so in summary:

all using eircom: all work
all using blacknight: can't send
eircom using eircom, blacknight using blacknight: blacknight can't send
Blacknight: What I need you to test, is having the ***.ie mail accounts set using Eircom
Blacknight: Okay
Blacknight: so when they all use Eircom, they do work - that is what I would expect, cormie
cormie: yeah
Blacknight: as I mentioned earlier - Eircom block port 25 for external mail
Blacknight: this is why you cannot use our mail server
cormie: so what must I do to use your server? I prefer not to use eircom, have had trouble with them before in the past with not receiving mail and stuff due to their server being down
Blacknight: You would need to contact Eircom and get a business line, which doesn't block port 25
cormie: this seems a bit excessive, what has eircom blocking port 25 got to do with me being able to send and receive from the @***/@**** addresses if each of the blacknight accounts are set to use blacknight servers for incoming and outgoing mails?
Blacknight: The outbound mail server port is 25, cormie - and Eircom block this. If you cannot reach port 25 on our server, then you -have- to use Eircoms. I'm afraid there is no way to work around this
Blacknight: It's part of an anti-spam measure on Eircoms behalf
cormie: are you saying it's related to my ISP.. as in, if I connect to the internet using my android phone over 3g using vodafone, it should send and it's only because I'm using eircom internet connection it's failing?
Blacknight: With Vodafone, you would have to use the Vodafone mail server instead
Blacknight: But yes, this issue is due to your use of Eircom
Blacknight: Most ISPs do block port 25 though, and force you to use their mail server
Blacknight: 3, Vodafone, Eircom, Smart, etc to name a few
cormie: how did it work before so when I was using pop33r.blacknight and it only stopped working when you changed something at your end? It always worked on eircom connection with pop33 mail server from blacknight?
Blacknight: The only thing we changed was forcing the need for using SMTP authentication, cormie - which does not affect your ability to reach our servers, which is what is happening here
Blacknight: Not all of the Eircom network is blocked like that, so you may have been on the part which wasn't blocked previously
Blacknight: Unfortunately there is little more I can advise regarding this. If you are using Eircom as an ISP and cannot reach our mail server - you must use the Eircom mail server
cormie: I'm pretty sure nothing changed on the eircom side when it worked using the mail33pop thingy from blacknight. I had never any trouble using android phone to send/receive mail at all on these server settings, the only time I had a problem is the day something was changed at blacknights end.
Blacknight: The only thing we changed was forcing SMTP authentication, cormie
Blacknight: This would not have stopped you reaching our mail server
Blacknight: I'm afraid I must repeat, but if you cannot reach ourselves - there is nothing we can do in relation to this
Blacknight: This is down to the way Eircom block their network
Blacknight: The only resolution to this is to use their mail server
cormie: it happened the very day that changes were made at your end though, so it's quite coincidental that eircom changed something too the same day when I never had any trouble on an eircom, or any other connection before?
Blacknight: Whilst it may seem quite coincidental - it is indeed just a coincidence, cormie.
Blacknight: The change we made cannot prevent you from reaching our servers. It's simply not possible.
Blacknight: The change itself relates to a transaction that is made -after- the connection is made. With this, you cannot reach the server at all according to the error message.
cormie: I find it too coincidental that the very same day you change your requirements, my eircom connection stops me connecting to something that I previously could connect to, on eircom and every other connection I've ever used, including 3 and Vodafone also, never tried Smart, but every other connection both in Ireland and abroad
cormie: is pop33r different in that it's pop and not SMTP or something?
Blacknight: All three, pop33r / smtp1r and mail.blacknight.com all resolve to the same server, so can be used interchangably
Blacknight: And whilst it may seem coincidental, I'm afraid that is the way it is, cormie. It is common for Eircom lines to suddenly be unable to reach our mail servers and need to switch to the Eircom mail server
Blacknight: I see several of these a week
cormie: so if I connect to the internet using another non eircom connection, it should work?
Blacknight: Depending on the ISP, yes
cormie: do you know of any that definitely should work?
Blacknight: As I mentioned earlier; most ISPs block access to port 25 - so it would have to be one who don't
Blacknight: UPC don't
Blacknight: I send through our mail servers using UPC from my home connection
cormie: ok, and you reckon the server itself has nothing to do with mails going to spam?
Blacknight: That is correct -- unless their mail server is listed in a blacklist, but that should just prevent the mail from being received at all
Blacknight: If it went into their inbox spam, then likely it was just Outlooks own junk mail filter, which is notoriously unreliable
cormie: I think the first time I was on chat about this issue, your colleague mentioned the changes were made at your end to further sercure the server from spam threats or something?
cormie: well I think this was an @gmail address that my mail ended up in the spam folder of, and I'd hate to think every @gmail address I send to, the mail ends up in the spam folder
Blacknight: Indeed; this was the change we made to the SMTP authentication that I mentioned earlier
Blacknight: Okay - what you can do
Blacknight: is check the headers of the mail - and it should tell you why your mails are being blocked if it came through any of the more common spam filters
Blacknight: Past that, really you would need to be checking the spam side of things with Eircom as its their servers
Blacknight: Without access to them to see, there is little I can suggest or do more than make some educated guesses without any real information
cormie: right, and are you saying that if I WAS able to use the blacknight server, my mails would have a higher chance of not going to spam folders?
Blacknight: No, I'm not saying that, cormie
Blacknight: I'm saying that I don't know why the Eircom ones should show as spam
Blacknight: And nor should there be any reason why they would
cormie: by the way, the server settings for all blacknight emails are set to pop33r.cp.blacknight.com still, it's only the outgoing on that's mail.blacknight.com, basically with thunderbird you set each individual account up, and then there is a tab for outgoing server where you set the server. Would it make a difference that the incoming vs outgoing are different?
Blacknight: No it wouldn't make any difference if the inbound/outbound were any different
cormie: ok, but when you say I'd need to check the spam side of things with eircom as it's their servers, do you not mean that if there was a problem, it may be because I'm using eircoms server and if in this situation, I was using blacknight server, I may not have the same problem?
Blacknight: No it doesn't mean that, cormie
Blacknight: What I mean is that if you're having problems with the Eircom servers
Blacknight: It's Eircom you need to talk to
Blacknight: You could equally have the same problems with ours
cormie: ok, but is the server, Eircom or yourself, likely to have any effect on my mail turning up in someones spam folder? So if gmail viewed eircom as a spammy server and blacknight as clean, it would be best to use blacknight?
Blacknight: Only if it were happening due to the mail server being the cause of the issue
Blacknight: The server you pick is unlikely to have an effect on if it turns up in someones spam folder or not
Blacknight: If it did, and it was being caused by server issues - then yes, clearly switching would be a good idea at that point
cormie: ok cool, so for now you say to just use eircoms server and maybe when I'm in my friends house who uses UPC, if I have my laptop I can check if it works there and it should?
Blacknight: That is correct; and yes, you can use your laptop to test sending via Blacknight from a UPC connection and that should work as expected
cormie: ok, by the way, mail1.eircom.net in my outgoing server list is ALSO port 25??
Blacknight: That is correct
cormie: so they don't block port 25 once it's connecting to them or something?
Blacknight: They don't block port 25 for their own mail server
cormie: ok, now as I said, I've had trouble with the eircom server before being down for a few hours or more, is there any way I can use a gmail smtp? I have smtp.gmail.com port 110 in my outgoing server list. Is it possible to use that if the eircom one goes down again and I can't use the blacknight one?
cormie: I don't think I've ever used it before
cormie: but it's there...
Blacknight: I'm afraid I'm not certain if you can use the Gmail one; I would not imagine so unless you had the domain configured on their service in some fashion
cormie: ah ok, all very complicated for me! So I'll continue using the eircom one anyway I guess and just hope my mails get to my customers
cormie: Thanks for your patience, I know I can ask a lot of questions just very confused, still am a bit :P
Blacknight: No problem; was there anything else I can help with in the meantime?
cormie: Actually, one last question, can I ask eircom to stop blocking port 25 did you say or is there a charge or need for a special line for that?
Blacknight: My understanding is that you need a fixed IP or a business class line, which I believe costs extra - I'm not certain on the specifics I'm afraid
Blacknight: we only ever hear back bits of the story about what was required
cormie: ok grand, fingers crossed with the eircom server anyway! Thanks again and have a good day!

bhickey

cormie wrote: »

Eventually got around to getting back on to support. For anyone else experiencing the same problem. The below transcript should clear things up a bit. Yes I like to ask a lot of questions

I had to check the year in the date for this post to believe what I was reading! From the transcript, it seems to say that Blacknight have no solution to offer for Eircom customers whose outbound e-mails on port 25 are being blocked?

Try using port 587 instead of port 25.

mneylon

Port 587 should work fine

cormie

I just tried port 587 and it worked

Are there and cons to using this port as opposed to port 25? Why should I use port 25 if I can? Is there any reason port 587 wasn't suggested before if it's just the same as port 25, only it bypasses eircoms block?

Thanks

mneylon

cormie wrote: »

I just tried port 587 and it worked

Are there and cons to using this port as opposed to port 25? Why should I use port 25 if I can? Is there any reason port 587 wasn't suggested before if it's just the same as port 25, only it bypasses eircoms block?

Thanks

Port 25 is the standard port

It's the one that just about any email software will use by default

There is zero guarantee that ISPs will not start blocking port 587 and from what our support team have been saying some of the ISPs already are

cormie

Still a bit double dutch to me here, so as long as I can still use 587, it means eircom, at the moment, aren't blocking it and I shouldn't experience any more problems, unless they do decide to block it, in which case I should go back to using the eircom one?

mneylon

cormie wrote: »

Still a bit double dutch to me here, so as long as I can still use 587, it means eircom, at the moment, aren't blocking it and I shouldn't experience any more problems, unless they do decide to block it, in which case I should go back to using the eircom one?

Yes
If you are always on Eircom you can always use their SMTP and not ours ..

cormie

Ah I prefer yours, have had some trouble with eircom one in the past. Only trouble with yours was because of eircom coincidentally, but port 587 seems to be working fine now Thanks a lot!

cormie

Hi, having a slight problem trying to send mails at the moment and I'm not sure if it's related, I get a "qq read error 4.3.0" problem the first 2 or so times I try and send a mail, but then it appears to send fine after another attempt. Has happened with about 3 emails this evening.

mneylon

cormie wrote: »

Hi, having a slight problem trying to send mails at the moment and I'm not sure if it's related, I get a "qq read error 4.3.0" problem the first 2 or so times I try and send a mail, but then it appears to send fine after another attempt. Has happened with about 3 emails this evening.

If you're having an issue please contact our support desk - they're more likely to be able to help you.

cormie

Seems ok now was just checking if anyone else had the same issue at the time last night, thanks!

Just upgraded to Thunderbird 3 from 2 this morning actually which was a lot scarier than a temporary server error