Banned from After Hours

FreudianSlippers

I was banned from after hours for supposedly ignoring on-thread mod warnings.
Link to thread: http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056055227&page=6

The mod warning was issued while I was writing the offending post in question, as such I had no way of seeing said warning on thread until after my post was submitted.

Upon seeing the warning, I replied (albeit on-thread) to the warning explaining that the previous post was made before I had seen the warning and apologising for any upset I may have caused.

I then, promptly, PM'd the mod (Micky Dolenz) apologising for my post following the warning and explained that if he felt it necessary to edit/delete the post then I consented in advance to such action.

I received no reply from Micky Dolenz to my PM, but rather received a ban for 3 days.

Upon replying to the banning PM explaining yet again the situation, I received this reply:

Hi OisinT

You were give ample warning in that thread, you ignored all instruction. You even questioned mod instruction twice. Once you had seen the warning, you should have deleted your post and PM'ed me, instead you quoted my instruction and commented on it, once it was seen by you.

Micky

Firstly, at no point did I "question mod instruction" in that thread. In the on-thread warning that occurred prior to the final warning, I had simply stated that I was not using a "tone".

Secondly, I did in fact PM said moderator with instruction to delete or edit my posts as necessary - clearly this was fully ignored by the mod in question.

Thirdly, I admit commenting on the instruction - however it was done so (as previously mentioned) to explain the previous post which also fell post-warning.

It was at all time my full intention to cease posting in said thread following the warning. It was also my full intention to follow any moderator instruction regarding the editing and/or deletion of one or any post in the thread.
No instruction was given and no reply was issued to me.
Rather, the moderator felt it more appropriate to issue a ban in spite of a clear intention to follow instruction. Had the moderator issued a reply to my previous PM requiring or asking me to delete numbered posts or portions thereof I would have promptly complied.
Furthermore, it was my contention prior to the ban that this or any other mod could delete or edit my posts in that thread.

As such, there is a claim by myself that I fully intended on deleting or editing any posts - such intention was brought to the attention of moderators both on-thread and via PM prior to the issuance of the ban notice.

Perhaps it is possible that the moderator was in the process of issuing the ban while the PM was received, however if this is the contention it only serves to bolster my claim that I in no way intended to disobey instructions.

It falls now that I request CMods to adjudicate in the matter at hand.
It should be fairly simple to ascertain whether or not my PM was received before or after the ban was issued.

FreudianSlippers

Timeline of events for clarity:

15:08 - Mod warning on thread. It was at this point that I was writing my reply to a previous post.
15:13 - Offending post submitted.
15:14 - I saw the mod warning before my offending post.
15:16 - My explanation for the offending post and an apology posted on-thread
15:18 - PM to Micky Dolenz consenting to deletion or editing of my posts following warning. (no reply made)
15:21 - Ban notice received in inbox
15:22 - My reply to ban notice
15:27 - Micky Dolenz's reply (quoted in its entirely above)

g'em

Hi OisinT

OisinT wrote: »

I was banned from after hours for supposedly ignoring on-thread mod warnings.
Link to thread: http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056055227&page=6

I've read the thread and I've read your posts here and you did actually ignore the warning - Micky Dolenz requested that you not post in the thread again, and you did, twice.

I appreciate that you were writing one of the replies while he was posting the warning, but there is a time window that allows you to delete or edit your own posts - the responsibility was on your shoulders to do so once you saw that a direct request had already been issued.

If you wanted to apologise you do so by PM, not on a thread that you've been asked not to post on.

I think Micky Dolenz acted quite correctly here.

OisinT wrote:

It falls now that I request CMods to adjudicate in the matter at hand.
It should be fairly simple to ascertain whether or not my PM was received before or after the ban was issued.

This is a moot point - even if the time stamp shows an overlap you could have deleted your post once you saw the warning.

FreudianSlippers

g'em wrote: »

Hi OisinT


I've read the thread and I've read your posts here and you did actually ignore the warning - Micky Dolenz requested that you not post in the thread again, and you did, twice.

I appreciate that you were writing one of the replies while he was posting the warning, but there is a time window that allows you to delete or edit your own posts - the responsibility was on your shoulders to do so once you saw that a direct request had already been issued.

If you wanted to apologise you do so by PM, not on a thread that you've been asked not to post on.

I think Micky Dolenz acted quite correctly here.

This is a moot point - even if the time stamp shows an overlap you could have deleted your post once you saw the warning.

I fully understand your point and in my OP I stated quite unambiguously that I was not aware of what procedure to follow.

This is exactly why I posted both on-thread and via PM - also, why in my PM I suggested that the moderators deal with the offending posts as necessary.
Clearly, now I know the procedure to delete first, ask questions later: however at the time, I promptly messaged Micky Dolenz seeking instructions or prompting action on his part.

All it would have taken was a brief reply from Micky Dolenz saying "delete the offending posts" and it would have been done immediately.

It is impossible to ignore a warning which was not given when I posted. It is impossible to apply constructive notice in this situation.
Granted, I fully accept that I "ignored" the warning in the second post - perhaps I ought to have only PM'd him in that case, but I was not posting in clear defiance of his warning. In fact, and on the contrary, I was posting in compliance with his warning.

If it was my responsibility to delete the offending post(s) then that responsibility ought to have been acknowledged in my PM to Micky Dolenz.
I don't see how I am to have known that it was for me to do the deletion when:
a) this situation has not arisen with me previously
b) I asked for clarification constructively by suggesting that Micky Dolenz edit or delete my posts.

I can and am willing to post my PM correspondence with Micky Dolenz if requested.


Finally, as you have read the thread and offending post(s), you must see that while the 2nd reply in question was a technical breach of warning, it was only done so as a means of explanation (or an addendum so to speak) to the first.
While certainly I will agree that a technical breach is still a breach, I don't think it is arguable that my post was in any way meant to incite poor behaviour or argument to the moderator direction - quite the contrary in fact.


It is my clear contention that in light of all evidence, the ban received was unduly strict in that I clearly brought the situation to the attention of the mod prior to action, my breach was offered by way of explanation in the fastest way possible and I offered to rectify the situation via moderator action.

It's my belief, furthermore, that the situation would have adequately have been resolved by issuing a formal warning (yellow card) or infraction and deletion of offending post(s) and that a ban for this type of breach is completely disproportionate.

FreudianSlippers

I suppose I'm to take it that this is a CMod upholding the ban.

As such I will pre-empt argument and disagreements and request an Admin investigation in the matter.

I feel that it is fairly clear that I understand the scenario but disagree perhaps with the action (rather more aptly perhaps: Inaction) taken by Micky Dolenz in moderating the situation.

It is my full submission that at all times I intended to comply with the instruction.
I sought instruction or action from a moderator (Micky Dolenz) which was not acted upon or even replied to (perhaps not even read prior to banning?).
Such action could have brought a prompt and civil end to matters with either the mod deleting the offending post(s) or his instruction to me to delete the posts.

Without prejudice to the foregoing, if my 2nd post was in breach of the moderator direction and instruction (which it is denied) then the appropriate action would have been an infraction. The issuance of a ban was disproportionate in the circumstances - for example, a warning to stay on topic was issued which other members blatantly ignored, quoting and bringing up posts from before the warning. No warnings or infractions were issued in spite of clear disregard for moderator directions.
While my 2nd post may have been a technical breach (which is denied) it was not clearly in disregard of the instruction - on the contrary it served to explain a previous post made without foreknowledge of the moderator warning.

g'em

OisinT wrote: »

I suppose I'm to take it that this is a CMod upholding the ban.

As such I will pre-empt argument and disagreements and request an Admin investigation in the matter.

I am, and that's no problem, this can be handed over for Admin review.

OisinT wrote:

It is my full submission that at all times I intended to comply with the instruction.
I sought instruction or action from a moderator (Micky Dolenz) which was not acted upon or even replied to (perhaps not even read prior to banning?).
Such action could have brought a prompt and civil end to matters with either the mod deleting the offending post(s) or his instruction to me to delete the posts.

With due respect, your behaviour throughout the thread was to not comply with a Moderator's instruction - you received two verbal warnings before being asked to leave the thread which you also subsequently ignored, one of which you disputed in-thread.

OisonT wrote:

Without prejudice to the foregoing, if my 2nd post was in breach of the moderator direction and instruction (which it is denied) then the appropriate action would have been an infraction.

The issuing of infractions vs a ban is at the Moderator's discretion. You had already ignored two verbal warnings, I think the escalation straight to a ban was quite appropriate here.

OisinT wrote:

The issuance of a ban was disproportionate in the circumstances - for example, a warning to stay on topic was issued which other members blatantly ignored, quoting and bringing up posts from before the warning. No warnings or infractions were issued in spite of clear disregard for moderator directions.

The ban was entirely proportionate - in that thread you ignored two warnings, disputed one in-thread, ignored a request to leave the thread and then discussed the matter with the Moderator in-thread. As a Moderator yourself it is expected that you are aware of site rules, and not arguing with Mod instruction in-thread is a site-wide rule.

FreudianSlippers

I genuinely do not recall arguing with a mod instruction so if evidence can be posted here it would be appreciated. I'm not sure how it is unclear what I'm saying but obviously it isn't setting in. I did not argue with the mod and did not disobey or ignore a warning once. any post in violation of warning served as an apology only.

I stayed on topic per previous warnings. it was other posters ignoring the on topic warnings

FreudianSlippers

BTW I am not sorry for apologising to people I may have insulted or upset in that thread regardless of mod warning not to post. the moderating an ah is usually fair but in this case is wrong. I did not argue with instruction once.

I.did post in reply to a warning to apologise and if I'm banned for that then so be it - I felt it necessary to clear my position up. I deserve that ability. I have already had to pm one poster to clarify what was said.

FreudianSlippers

AFAIK my ban expires tomorrow and I'll be back to postwhoring in AH in no time

I shouldn't have posted the explanation for the post in the thread, but rather only via PM.
I certainly didn't intend to defy the mod warning, so it was an over-reaction to ban me - but an over-reaction that Micky Dolenz has the power to have!

I still think the banning decision was wrong hence why I started this thread, but it's only a 3 day ban and it's over pretty much now anyway. (I would enjoy an early reprieve however ). I still believe, however, that I made an effort to discuss the next course of action with the moderator to which I received no reply.

Anyway, let's just end this messing about and get on with it I've built a bridge and gotten over it and I hope that I haven't caused too much fuss or stress for any AH mods, CMods or Admins... it definitely was just a case of me feeling that I was in the right (which I still believe).

Lock as necessary.