Could this really be true? Really? (facebook course for councillors)

Lenny Lovett

So, in today's Indo we read that Councillors are off on a jaunt to a course in Killarney to learn how to use Facebook:

By Ralph Riegel and Edel Kennedy

Friday October 22 2010

COUNCILLORS will attend a crash course this weekend on using social-networking site Facebook -- for a €195 fee.
However, when the hotel and travelling costs are included each councillor could run up fees and expenses of more than €500.
Last night the conference system was branded a "flagrant waste of taxpayers' money" that brings no benefit to the public.
The conference is called 'Facebook for Councillors -- a Business Perspective' and will run tomorrow at the Killarney Heights Hotel, Co Kerry.
The conference concludes on Sunday with a keynote address. However, many councillors will travel tonight, therefore claiming overnight expenses for two nights in the three-star hotel.
The event aims to help public representatives exploit the vast communication potential of sites like Facebook -- and hone their social-networking skills.

Is this some sort of elaborate piss take by the Irish Independent? It couldn't possibly be true.... Could it?
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/taxpayer-to-foot-bill-for-crash-course-on-facebook-2390334.html

Liam Byrne

Hope it's not run by the same crowd that ran a social media one that I went to......that'd make it an even bigger waste of our money.

That said, I didn't get any hotel and travelling costs; funny how those always only show up when it's someone else wasting taxpayers money.

Deise Tom

Does anyone know of any Councillor, County, City or Town who has gone on this junket to Killkarney to let to use Facebook. What a waste of Money. Anyone of them that turns up at it should be named.

drBill

More fodder for the Jay Leno show. Wasters.

Lenny Lovett

drBill wrote: »

More fodder for the Jay Leno show. Wasters.

Groooaaaannn :mad:
That has just occourred to me too. In fairness we can't blame the world for laughing at us. We did elect these people...

JohnDee

Hmmm, any chance of these guys attending some sort of Effective Local Government/Efficent Local Government course??

It makes you wonder about their competence if they have difficulty navigating a social network page? You don't exactly have to be a computer wizz.

2hellr2conaght

Jasus, usually they go away just on the piss to look at breeding cat fish in Brazil or something. At least this time it's only to Killarney and how to use a computer. €500 a man seems cheap, compared to the Paddy day trips of a couple of years ago. Can't wait to see the profile pics though.

2hellr2conaght

JohnDee wrote: »

Hmmm, any chance of these guys attending some sort of Effective Local Government/Efficent Local Government course??

It makes you wonder about their competence if they have difficulty navigating a social network page? You don't exactly have to be a computer wizz.

They did. In Listowel 2 weeks ago I think. (night of Russia match) I know because they were all in the pub beside me. Blocking my view with their big noses....

Deise Tom

I am not an expert on computers by any means, but if any councillor is reading this and wants to learn about face book, i will gladly give them a crash course for a lot less than the reported figures.

flutered

just tell them to walk in to the 6th class room of their local national school, there they get it for free.

Lockstep

It's not the course itself I have much of a problem with: I know way too many middle aged+ people who can barely work a computer and Facebook is extremely handy in politics, although €195 is fairly high.

However, it's the hotels and expenses that I find suspect. Massive waste of cash.

Lenny Lovett

flutered wrote: »

just tell them to walk in to the 6th class room of their local national school, there they get it for free.

They've probably closed the school down due to lack of funds!!:pac:

Essexboy

One of them was on News at One with a novel excuse for attending.

My friend's 7-year old son showed him how to use Facebook but not everyone has a 7-year old son so the course is necessary.

What is wrong with a 7-year old daughter, I wonder. Next step, I suppose will be a grant to get a 7-year old son. :rolleyes:

Deise Tom

Essexboy wrote: »

One of them was on News at One with a novel excuse for attending.

My friend's 7-year old son showed him how to use Facebook but not everyone has a 7-year old son so the course is necessary.

What is wrong with a 7-year old daughter, I wonder. Next step, I suppose will be a grant to get a 7-year old son. :rolleyes:

Fair fecks to them for having the balls to go on the news.

gurramok

My 72 yr old mother has recently started to use Facebook. I gave her literally a 10min tuition and for a woman who cannot pick up things straight away and has not a clue about computers other than browsing the web, she is regularly using FB through sheer common sense on what to do with it.

bonzos

Any way of finding out who from your own county took part in this robbery of the tax payer?

Callan57

Oh Boy ... they're still at it :mad:

Deise Tom

bonzos wrote: »

Any way of finding out who from your own county took part in this robbery of the tax payer?

Do you think you would get answers easy.

Laminations

I heard this on Pat Kenny yesterday morning. A guest on the show pointed out that transition year students teach computer skills for FREE; do you remember the ads? Elderly people learning how to email and skype. They really don't get it, at a time when every expense should be scrutinised to ensure it is absolutely necessary we see these people use tax payers money to equip themselves with new electioneering skills!! If they really want to communicate with people this way they should learn for free or pay out of their own pocket. Council expenses for junkets should be slashed to zero.

bijapos

A lot of councillors are on a little known gravy train which seems to be part of some training course for when they become TDs but to quote Denis Foley FG Bagenalstown:

"Big deal, big f**king deal."

(Article below)

By Fiach Kelly and Edel Kennedy

Wednesday August 04 2010


A TEDDY Kennedy-quoting councillor last night denied he got paid over €106,000 in wages, expenses and allowances over two years.
The Irish Independent yesterday revealed that Fine Gael's Denis Foley received a total of €106,567 for 2008 and 2009.
The Bagenalstown, Co Carlow, councillor also claimed €2.60 mileage and almost €17 subsistence to go to a dinner dance in his home town.
When asked why he claimed the sum, he said: "Big deal, big f**king deal."
Mr Foley, who served as cathaoirleach for a year between 2008 and 2009, previously insisted he wasn't paid enough expenses. He said it "couldn't be true at all" that he received €106,567 over two years-- despite the figure coming from official documents.
The documents -- supplied by Carlow County Council to the Irish Independent -- detail the councillor's spending at various conferences, seminars and community events across the two years, and prove that he received payments totalling €105,567 across the two years.

Allowance
"Well, that figure. . . that couldn't be true at all," he told 'The Sue Nunn Show' on KCLR Radio yesterday. "The chairman's allowance for Carlow County Council is €32,000 a year. Your actual wages is €1,400 a month so it's about €350 a week you get normally."
He previously said any payments he got were legitimate.
"You wouldn't get anything for going to a function in Bagenalstown," he said. "It's a mile from your home, how would you get anything for that?"
But the documents show that Mr Foley went to the emigrants dinner dance in the Estoria in Bagenalstown on August 9, 2008, and claimed €19.55.
He said he lived a mile from the Estoria, which is on the main street in town. The claim was made up of €2.60 mileage and €16.95 subsistence.
He also made similar claims for other events in his home town, such as:

• €19.55 each for the launch of the Bagenalstown festival and the unveiling of a plaque at a local national school.
• €23.44 for the launch of the Bagenalstown swimming pool.
• €22.15 for the opening of Bagenalstown library.
• €20.85 for an anti-social behaviour presentation.

Mr Foley also claimed €31.17 travel and €41.55 subsistence to attend a ceremony in Carlow town to mark the beginning of construction at a Merck Sharpe and Dohme pharmaceutical facility. The total payment of €72.72 was given for an event that was 20km from his home.
At the launch, which was also attended by Taoiseach Brian Cowen, Mr Foley quoted a famous speech given by Ted Kennedy to the Democratic convention. "The work begins anew. The hope rises again. And the dream lives on," he said.
When asked about his €2.60 mileage claim, Mr Foley said it "wouldn't pay for the diesel in the car".
"€2.60? Sure what's that anyway?" he asked. "Big deal, big f**king deal. If the council paid me €2.60 -- Jaysus, great stuff. I must look for more because I didn't get enough then."
He said he turned down trips to New York during his term as cathaoirleach because it would have sent out the wrong signal.
"Councillors get feck all. Councillors are the least paid of the public representatives in this country. We're not like (Ivor) Callely and them boys."
- Fiach Kelly and Edel Kennedy
Irish Independent

Lenny Lovett

Thank you Mr Foley. You've confirmed my long held belief that all Politicians are equally guilty of ripping us off. Now, we need to clear the whole lot of them out and start again.

Wertz

Hats off to whatever entrepeneurial spirit dreamt up this course and it's content. The country needs exactly this type of business mind to pull itself out of the bust.

Seriously, if facebook or other social networking sites truly garner an advantage to a politican or local councillor when it comes to pulling in votes then this course should be paid for by THEM or THEIR PARTY, not by some expense account for "training purposes".
Or they could, you know, learn how to use it the same way normal people do...

Fo Real

Thanks to bajipos for posting that article, confirming that it's not only TDs who are squandering our money, but also councillor hacks. I'm shocked at Denis Foley's attitude towards expenses. These guys wouldn't take a shít unless the taxpayer payed for the toilet paper.

This will be my number one issue when the hacks call to my door before the imminent election. Can the different party leaders not keep the amount of expenses claims by their councillors and TDs under control?

bijapos

Fo Real wrote: »

Can the different party leaders not keep the amount of expenses claims by their councillors and TDs under control?

Obviously not.

By Edel Kennedy and Fiach Kelly

Tuesday August 03 2010


CITY and county councillors received more than the average industrial wage for each of the past two years as they ran up a massive €75.6m payments bill, an Irish Independent investigation has found.
It also reveals that up to half the conferences attended by local politicians from some counties were organised by companies with links to three serving or former councillors.
The revelations will raise further questions about the lucrative earnings of our part-time politicians, who earned an average of €32,398 per annum over the last two years. Despite cuts to local authority budgets, this is still almost €3,800 more than today's average industrial wage.
Our investigation -- conducted over five months and involving information collated from more than 150 bodies for the years 2008 and 2009 -- reveals earnings have grown rapidly each year since 2005, when €26m was paid. It also reveals:

• Scores of councillors attended seminars on how to boost their personal vote in local elections. One taxpayer-funded seminar was held to show councillors how to claim all their "entitlements".
• Two high-profile sibling councillors claimed almost €110,000 in one year.
• One council spent €88,000 on conferences fees and an additional €284,000 on hotels and mileage.
• One councillor claimed overnight expenses to stay in a hotel just 25 miles from her home.
• Two councillors took a €12,388 trip to the US on St Patrick's Day. Twelve others enjoyed a €20,000 trip to Tennessee.
• Some councillors used up more than half their conference allowance to attend summer schools -- some costing in excess of €1,400 each.
• Others failed to turn up at conferences, despite their council paying out hundreds of euro in attendance fees.

Environment Minister John Gormley -- who has introduced new limits on the tax-free allowances given to councillors -- last night said councillors were only entitled to claim "reasonable" expenses.
"At a time of tough economic challenges, all politicians must take a share in spending cuts," he said.
"The figures compiled for the Irish Independent date partially from a time before my reforms and point to the need for the changes we brought in."
Earlier this year, Mr Gormley announced plans to impose a €4,700 annual conference limit, with limits as low as €1,000 for some town councillors. The conference fees are paid for by councils out of the councillors' allowance. Mr Gormley made the changes after seeing "conferences which were not really conferences".
The investigation found that a large number of seminars often last for just four hours. But because registration takes place the night before, those attending claim for an overnight stay in addition to mileage.
It also found that councillors would often do a 500-mile round trip to a seminar rather than attend the same one in their own county on a different date. Expenses varied wildly across the representatives, with some claiming the minimum -- but others claim every cent.
One Leinster-based councillor admitted to a €2.60 travel claim to attend a local dinner dance.
While travel has been reduced for 2009, many councillors still made their regular St Patrick's Day trip to the US at a cost of tens of thousands of euro.
Despite the revelations, the head of an umbrella group representing councillors last night insisted our part-time politicians were not paid enough.
Association of County and City Councillors president -- South Tipperary-based councillor Michael Fitzgerald -- also defended conferences, which he described as "most educational", and criticised Mr Gormley's cap of €4,700.
"It's too low," he told the Irish Independent, adding that they had sought a €6,000 limit.
When asked about abuses of the conference system, Mr Fitzgerald said he believed "that day is gone".
"If there was abuse there in the past. . . and there's no doubt there was abuse, I think that certainly is gone now."
He added that the work of a councillor had become "extremely difficult" and was now a 24/7 job. He claimed that councillors were almost expected to do more than a TD.
"You have to work extremely hard at it now because if you don't the public certainly won't elect you come the next election."
There are currently 883 city and county councillors on 34 councils. They only started receiving a formal salary, known as a representative payment, in 2002. It now stands at around €17,000 and is taxable.
Added to this, councillors receive a tax-free annual allowance, a tax-free conference budget, and €600-a-year mobile phone allowance.
Allowances for mayors or chairpersons of councils are taxed on a modified level, while additional expenses are earned from sitting on the boards of regional authorities, colleges, fisheries boards and others.
Councillors over 50 who were not returned in last year's local elections -- even those who chose not to stand -- were entitled to a lump sum payoff of as much as €70,416. A number of others will be entitled to retirement gratuity when they reach the age of 50.
The average payment in 2009 was lower than the 2008 average because of the June 2009 local elections. The fact that some councillors lost their seats -- while others were newly elected -- means that a greater number were getting payments.
The figures do not include the payments made to town councillors.
- Edel Kennedy and Fiach Kelly
Irish Independent

rasper

reminds me of my astonishment , when my sister (works for HSE ) that she had to do a course to teacil her to use email, yes an email course, didnt matter she was using it for years, she had to take a half day off work to throw money down the drain, made her sick
they could burn more money if they tried

Deise Tom

Teachers a while back got a letter giving them instructions how to open their pay packet receipt. What a bloody waste of money.

rasper

The more I think of this crap the madder I feel, why is the tax payer paying for this, if they feel the need to shell out €500 of my tax to learn how to use a most basic user friendly website on the go.
Since when do you do a course with expenses , is the no one there to tell them to cop on and pay for it yourself if you are such a moran that you need it.
who are the facilitators of such a course , they deserve a full investigation just for being involved with squandering my tax.
No lets just cut child benefit instead, vermin the lot of them

yoshytoshy

A government who will lead us out of the recession ,with a smart economy ,can't use facebook.

You couldn't make this stuff up ,not in a million years.

Deise Tom

yoshytoshy wrote: »

A government who will lead us out of the recession ,with a smart economy ,can't use facebook.

You couldn't make this stuff up ,not in a million years.

I was waiting for someone to say something like this.

This is something that we cannot blame on FF and the Greens, well not entirly anyway. While there may be members of their parties at the junket, the most of the councils, Town, City and County are controlled by Lab and FG, and they should have tried to pass some motion which would have said that if someone wanted to go they would have to pay for it from their own pocket. I bet that way not many would have wanted to go. If such a motion was to have been put to the floor, in most cases it would have been passed as FG and Lab hold the power in most bodies. A bit of an own goal by them this one i think.

rasper

Deise Tom wrote: »

I was waiting for someone to say something like this.

This is something that we cannot blame on FF and the Greens, well not entirly anyway. While there may be members of their parties at the junket, the most of the councils, Town, City and County are controlled by Lab and FG, and they should have tried to pass some motion which would have said that if someone wanted to go they would have to pay for it from their own pocket. I bet that way not many would have wanted to go. If such a motion was to have been put to the floor, in most cases it would have been passed as FG and Lab hold the power in most bodies. A bit of an own goal by them this one i think.

plenty of parasites in the three main partys, thats nothing will change when the Lab/FG if it was wouldnt our local government be in a lot better condition

but no one but the voter to blame here

yoshytoshy

Deise Tom wrote: »

A bit of an own goal by them this one i think.

I don't think it's as much of an own goal for lab/FG ,as it's an admission by fianna fail that they don't know their arses from their elbows ,when it comes to anything remotely modern.

PR is important for politicians and especially when they're finding it hard to communicate with people ,but this whole approach is just amaturish ,caveman like.

Pangea

This is ridiculous, why dont they just go into their local school and learn? Students are now teaching the older ones how to use the computer for free, I seen it on rte news.
This is scandolous.

ongarboy

According to the Kerryman newspaper today, not one Kerry councillor availed of this ridiculous course which incidentally was being held in Kerry - wonder was that because they wouldn't get the lucrative taxpayer funded overnight accommodation/travel/misc expenses that longer distance councillors were able to screw us for???

nuac

Anybody know if this course went ahead and if so how many attended?

Deise Tom

Reports in Waterford suggest that of the

23 County Councillors
15 City Councillors
9 Tramore Town Councillors
9 Dungarvan Town Councillors
9 Lismore Town Councillors

just ONE councillor (John Pratt - LAB - County Council) made the journey. Great to see the rest had the cop on not to go.

Smiley Burnett

Deise Tom wrote: »

Reports in Waterford suggest that of the

23 County Councillors
15 City Councillors
9 Tramore Town Councillors
9 Dungarvan Town Councillors
9 Lismore Town Councillors

just ONE councillor (John Pratt - LAB - County Council) made the journey. Great to see the rest had the cop on not to go.

The way this was reported in the media was a joke! It gave the impression that EVERY councillor in the country was spening 500 euros learning to use FACEBOOK!

Deise Tom

Smiley Burnett wrote: »

The way this was reported in the media was a joke! It gave the impression that EVERY councillor in the country was spening 500 euros learning to use FACEBOOK!

I agree with you. I am delighted that 50 plus councillors in Waterford had the cop on not to go. Most of them have their own facebook pages anyway. I have seen them. Maybe the ONE that did go could have went to one of them them and asked before a meeting or after one to show him how facebook works. It would take all of what, say ten minutes.