If all grants stopped... Sheep

johngalway

How would you make money off a sheep enterprise?

Just wondering what changes people would make.

Aside from running away from the job screaming.

kay 9

johngalway wrote: »

How would you make money off a sheep enterprise?

Just wondering what changes people would make.

Aside from running away from the job screaming.

Jes John, It's hard enough live with the grants, without them and I don;t know what the majority of smaller farmers will do. 2013 is D-day I believe. No worth thinking about, the president of the IfA was in Germany last week at a meeting about replacing the grants with some sort of schemes, i suppose they will be high work reps schemes:rolleyes: For most lads, the grants and such pay for fodder and day to day miscellaneous expenses. I wonder will many lads take a hit with these new audits Anyone had one yet I wonder.

johngalway

Come on Kay9, bit more enthusiasm

What's this about audits?

Birdnuts

johngalway wrote: »

How would you make money off a sheep enterprise?

Just wondering what changes people would make.

Aside from running away from the job screaming.

Its a scary prospect allright - I could see sheep numbers in the country collapsing unless some special deal could be done with the Chinese or something

kay 9

johngalway wrote: »

Come on Kay9, bit more enthusiasm

What's this about audits?

I have heard from a good few sources that all farmers are going to be audited;) I don't know why but they are starting in Connemara it seems. I suppose it's to try and get everyone paying a bit of prsi/tax which is fair. There was a piece about in the tuesday Irish independent (farming section) the last couple of weeks on advice etc. I just hope they aren't too strict:mad: Times are hard enough as it is these days.

Ps I'll try get that link for ya mate.

kay 9

Here it is from the 12th Oct http://www.independent.ie/farming/stay-on-the-right-side-of-the-law-as-farmers-targeted-in-revenue-audits-2374700.html

Rockery Woman

Sheep.

It costs more to get a sheep sheared than the value of the fleece.

If all grants stopped.....Sheep? Sure they could hire them out for discos, parties etc! Kangaroo is sooooo last weekend.....;)

amen

It costs more to get a sheep sheared than the value of the
fleece

see thats your problem. Too many small farmers with too many sheep.

Stop the grants, number of sheep fall and the price of the fleece should go up.

Btw very few industries get a grant to produce goods why should be farmers be different?

johngalway

Tax audit, I've no problems there. Got a good accountant and am always scrupulously honest with those figures.

Why? Because the Tax man is the one person on this Earth that I am afraid of.

Wouldn't like one because of the hassle, but ya get what ya get.

johngalway

OK, lets get this thread back on track please.

What changes would you make to your sheep farm in order to maximize your profits?

richiebon

hi guys quick question, the sheep grassland management scheme??? anyone know anything about it? did you have to apply or how does it work? filled in the sheep census but did you have to specifally apply for this to somewhere?

Birdnuts

What proportion of the grant is funded by the Irish Government as opposed to the EU in general?? - I suspect given the crisis in the public finances that the former could come under serious pressure in coming austerity budgets:(

Username John

richiebon wrote: »

hi guys quick question, the sheep grassland management scheme??? anyone know anything about it? did you have to apply or how does it work? filled in the sheep census but did you have to specifally apply for this to somewhere?

As far as I know it was just done on the census figures, but I could be wrong. I have nothing special for it either.

johngalway wrote: »

OK, lets get this thread back on track please.

What changes would you make to your sheep farm in order to maximize your profits?

I only started farming recently enough, the SFP that was there before me was very low. I am in REPS, but this will finish in 2013. So thats the end date for grants for me (I know there is a rework of the SFP going to happen, but not going to hold my breath that this will give me anything much)

Changes am making now is making farm more efficient (as best I can) Basically, trying to get more from less... reduce input costs, reseeding, better handling facilites, in time want to have a better paddock setup, for better rotational grazing, get a better handle on parasite management. If I could get the same output with less land, then I could either increase numbers, sell silage, maybe lease land, etc...

As for reducing input costs, I dont have a lot of input costs, main one being feed when lambing. But want to manage grass better so I can get this to a minimum. (I toyed with the idea of growing beet or similiar, as we used to do this years ago, but have little machinery, plus the time and effort it would take, it works out better and easier for me right now just to buy ration and have all fields in grass)

As I said, have only started farming, so I havent been at it long enough to talk a lot about breeds, and lambings rates. But this is something which I need to look at. Try to get the lambing rate up - but this is an easy thing to say... You would need to look at it to see how the different breeds would suit you. But I'd say this is something thats prob lower on my list. (Maybe it shouldnt be, but it is)

I know there was discussions on farmers markets, selling direct, getting more money for your meat. But this doesnt work for me, I only farm part time. So I need a system thats low input, and fits with my full time job.

For me, its about making the most from what I have. I know this doesn't guarantee I will make money, as am still completely dependant on market forces. But it means I am doing the best I can... If I cant make money at it then, well, maybe it is time to stop working for Larry Goodman or the likes... We shall see...

Nothing earth shattering in there I think JohnGalway... I think these are all things people have been talking about / doing for a long while.

But I am very interested to see what others say.

5live

amen wrote: »

see thats your problem. Too many small farmers with too many sheep.

Stop the grants, number of sheep fall and the price of the fleece should go up.

Btw very few industries get a grant to produce goods why should be farmers be different?

Because farming lives in the real world where you get the going price. Take it or leave it(and starve). The rest of the population has leglislative protection against getting fired, pay cuts, sick days, holidays, foreign workers etc etc etc etc etc etc. The grassland scheme kicks in when you send in your census figures(on time?) and apply for SFP. It may be delayed due to averaging of 2010 and 2011 figures of ewe numbers. John, i have to say i think the sheep industry is almost dead. In the mountains there is nothing else a farmer can produce but lamb. On lowland, especially startups, the cost of fencing is prohibitive so there for a grant scheme. But make it so restrictive and confusing that nobody can figure out what is actually happening and i suspect(but this is a very thin ice theory) wide open to political interferance. I mean, you can qualify and NOT get paid? Or not get clearance to start until later in the year. To me it looks like its time to join FF to have a decent chance of qualifying. The reason for these support schemes is to stop land abandonment. The prices we get are going to fluctuate from huge losses to decent income but how long till the good times return. I had over 200 ewes but cannot see myself increasing over the 60 or so i have as it would take a huge investment in wire and stakes and also more housing. I worry for the people entering into sheep production with E180 plus for hoggets. Them girls will probably die in debt:(

Username John

5live wrote: »

Because farming lives in the real world where you get the going price. Take it or leave it(and starve). The rest of the population has leglislative protection against getting fired, pay cuts, sick days, holidays, foreign workers etc etc etc etc etc etc. The grassland scheme kicks in when you send in your census figures(on time?) and apply for SFP. It may be delayed due to averaging of 2010 and 2011 figures of ewe numbers. John, i have to say i think the sheep industry is almost dead. In the mountains there is nothing else a farmer can produce but lamb. On lowland, especially startups, the cost of fencing is prohibitive so there for a grant scheme. But make it so restrictive and confusing that nobody can figure out what is actually happening and i suspect(but this is a very thin ice theory) wide open to political interferance. I mean, you can qualify and NOT get paid? Or not get clearance to start until later in the year. To me it looks like its time to join FF to have a decent chance of qualifying. The reason for these support schemes is to stop land abandonment. The prices we get are going to fluctuate from huge losses to decent income but how long till the good times return. I had over 200 ewes but cannot see myself increasing over the 60 or so i have as it would take a huge investment in wire and stakes and also more housing. I worry for the people entering into sheep production with E180 plus for hoggets. Them girls will probably die in debt:(

Yeah - this grant scheme for fencing is a fecking joke. No information, and what little info there is, basically says its either a lottery, or a who-you-know type arrangement...

I know what yer saying re the cost of fencing... boy, do I know

It is hard to see how lads would make money from paying 180euro for hoggets all right. Crazy money. Be interesting to see what'll happen next year.

I assume that you have cattle as well? And am not asking how much money you make
But if you had to compare sheep vs cattle, on a profit basis, how much more do you think you make on cattle? Just in general percentage terms.

amen

Because farming lives in the real world where you get the going price. Take it or leave it(and starve). The rest of the population has leglislative protection against getting fired, pay cuts, sick days, holidays, foreign workers etc etc etc etc etc etc

not if you are self employed which most farmers are. A lot of farmers also farm as a sideline.

In the mountains there is nothing else a farmer can produce but lamb

A lot of the land is commonage yet farmers have fences off this land and tried to claim as their own.

smokin ace

i work in a well known sheep factory in the south east and i dont want the sheep numbers to rise to much jsut enough sheep to keep us going for 3 or 4 days a week will do plenty thanks very much

johngalway

amen wrote: »

A lot of the land is commonage yet farmers have fences off this land and tried to claim as their own.

Some "commonages" are actually mapped and split, but unfenced. Many, with REPS and other schemes, were fenced in the recent past. Those commonages you could actually point at a particular bit and say "That's mine" as they did own it.

Other commonages were fenced entirely. This prevented problems of people from other commonages overgrazing their own commonage then pushing their sheep onto the neighbours commonage.

Feargal as Luimneach

smokin ace wrote: »

i work in a well known sheep factory in the south east and i dont want the sheep numbers to rise to much jsut enough sheep to keep us going for 3 or 4 days a week will do plenty thanks very much

x2:D
I do work in a factory that's on a five day kill of sheep. Tipping along nicely.....

5live

Username John wrote: »

Yeah - this grant scheme for fencing is a fecking joke. No information, and what little info there is, basically says its either a lottery, or a who-you-know type arrangement...

I know what yer saying re the cost of fencing... boy, do I know

It is hard to see how lads would make money from paying 180euro for hoggets all right. Crazy money. Be interesting to see what'll happen next year.

I assume that you have cattle as well? And am not asking how much money you make
But if you had to compare sheep vs cattle, on a profit basis, how much more do you think you make on cattle? Just in general percentage terms.

Very few cattle thank god. Mostly dairying and a few cull cows with most calves sold at about a month or 5 weeks. I got out of cattle about 10 years ago just as SFP was being discussed to ease workload but it seemed to me it was gambling without a cut for paddy power:). On comparison between cattle and sheep i would ALWAYS pick sheep as they are low cost to get into and maintain with low costs for housing and (very) high fencing costs whereas dry cattle need lots of capital for housing but little for fencing. I would be inclined more towards suckling than fattening as i had a suckler herd for years but drove them into the parlour one year to milk them:D. Now that was a fun spring:D:D:D. The costs of maintaining sucklers is only barely covered by sales on a lot of farms so SFP is the income and mine isnt high enough to justify much beef. To answer your question on %s i would say maybe 10% more profit on cattle but i have cubicles i can use. Ideally 60% cattle 40% sheep mix as i much prefer sheep