winter tyres : snow, studded ?

Mountainsandh

I'm in the countryside, and as the winter's approaching, starting to get a bit worried about a repeat of last year's "stuck at home" week and days.

Have to get a good set of tyres for the winter, but not too keen on getting the winter tyres. I'd be more inclined to go for chains with normal good tyres, or even get a set of studded tyres.

These would be to drive about 5 miles on black ice/snow/slush, and then another 8 miles or so on theoretically salted road every morning and evening.

Have read last year's thread on the subject, but still undecided, and wondering if any Irish tyre centers have updated and now sell studded tyres or chains or whatever.

I have a Toyota Corolla.

Winter tyres I'm sure would be better than normal ones, but please bear in mind I'm really out in the middle of nowhere, and about 230 m above sea level, so my first 6 miles are treacherous when the rest of the country is "driveable".
This was the road outside my door last year, after the slush had frozen over. This stayed this way for an entire week start of January. This is not slush, this is solid ice.

road outside my door last year by mountainsandheather, on Flickr
Thanks for advice

vibe666

i'm thinking a set of THESE in the boot would be the better (and more economical) option, given how on/off the weather is likely to get.

or maybe even THESE if it's going to be really bad.

i'm just not convinced that spending hundreds of quid on a set of winter tyres (and extra wheels) is worth it for what is essentially going to be a month at most of usage per year.

Vertakill

vibe666 wrote: »

i'm just not convinced that spending hundreds of quid on a set of winter tyres (and extra wheels) is worth it for what is essentially going to be a month at most of usage per year.

You can use winter tyres outside of winter... it's not like they explode when it hits midnight at the end of the season.

They'll wear a bit more/quicker when the road temperatures start to pick up after the winter, but they're still very usable because they do have good grip. Then you can just switch back to your other tyres afterwards. You'll get a LOT more use out of buying a set of winter tyres than you would out of buying those, quite expensive, flex-trax things. The autosock isn't too expensive and might be worth it but you'd still have to put them on/off yourself out in the cold..

Get a set of cheap 'used' winter tires and have them fitted and you can most of your winter driving fears at the back of your mind.

Viper_JB

vibe666 wrote: »

i'm thinking a set of THESE in the boot would be the better (and more economical) option, given how on/off the weather is likely to get.

Have you tried these yourself and do they work well? I gotta rwd that was a bit of a handful last winter, would probably get these if I thought they were any good.

Matt Simis

Mountainsandh wrote: »

Have to get a good set of tyres for the winter, but not too keen on getting the winter tyres.

Well then you dont have a "good set of tyres" for Winter, you have a good set of tyres for anything but Winter.

Winter tyres are for driving in weather under +7 but operate just fine till you get to asphalt temps over +21c. You dont need snow and ice to benefit from Winter tyres, put them on now and they will handily outperform Summer tyres for the next 4mths if not longer.


People really need to get over this hangup over winter tyres. I left mine on since March, stupidly good grip in every situation compared to Summers.

CiniO

Vertakill wrote: »

You can use winter tyres outside of winter... it's not like they explode when it hits midnight at the end of the season.

They'll wear a bit more/quicker when the road temperatures start to pick up after the winter, but they're still very usable because they do have good grip.

Are you sure what are you saying?
In high temperatures during the summer, winter tyres have very little grip, and car is just like swimming on the road. Driving in the summer on winter tyres is not a good idea.

CiniO

Mountainsandh wrote: »

I'm in the countryside, and as the winter's approaching, starting to get a bit worried about a repeat of last year's "stuck at home" week and days.

For the conditions like on the picture, winter tyres won't be good at all.
There's very little difference (if any) between winter tyres and summer tyres on pure ice.
Winter tyres are great on snow and mud. Also on partly melted snow that stays on the road. But not on ice.
For ice you need studded tyres. But I don't know if they are legal in Ireland. Or you can get a chains, but it would be hell lot of work to get them in and out everytime you approach different surface - you can't drive on chains on tarmac.

CiniO

Matt Simis wrote: »

Well then you dont have a "good set of tyres" for Winter, you have a good set of tyres for anything but Winter.

Winter tyres are for driving in weather under +7 but operate just fine till you get to asphalt temps over +21c. You dont need snow and ice to benefit from Winter tyres, put them on now and they will handily outperform Summer tyres for the next 4mths if not longer.

People really need to get over this hangup over winter tyres. I left mine on since March, stupidly good grip in every situation compared to Summers.

That's only marketing trick, that says that winter tyres are better whenever temperature falls below +7. There were many tests, that proved, that on clear surface, even on much lower temperatures, summer tyres have better grip.

Winter tyres that most people are thinking of (M+S marking) are good for snow or mud. Not clear surface or definitely not ice.

Matt Simis

CiniO wrote: »

Are you sure what are you saying?
In high temperatures during the summer, winter tyres have very little grip, and car is just like swimming on the road. Driving in the summer on winter tyres is not a good idea.

Are you sure of what you are saying? Winters on rear of the 850CSi meant its much harder to "light up" the wheels for burn-offs in the height of the summer heat.
Winters on the Alfa 156 I have noticeably improved braking distance last month when I put them on.

Winters wear faster in the heat, not get slippy in my experience, and I did explicitly test this. Their grip is, as I said, excellent.

CiniO wrote: »

That's only marketing trick, that says that winter tyres are better whenever temperature falls below +7. There were many tests, that proved, that on clear surface, even on much lower temperatures, summer tyres have better grip.
Winter tyres that most people are thinking of (M+S marking) are good for snow or mud. Not clear surface or definitely not ice.

Please link to these mysterious tests, in my experience and research (I looked this up a lot) what I have seen did not demonstrate what you are saying at all.

EDIT, 30seconds of googling finds lots of independent reports like this:
http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/Summer-VS-Winter-tyres-Warm-weather-performance.htm

Summer VS Winter tyres - Warm weather performance

There’s no arguing that winter tyres offer more grip than summer in temperatures below 5-7c, and that below 0c that performance gap is even wider, but how do winter tyres perform when the sun is out and the temperature is high?

To answer this we’ve used the 2010 Auto Bild All Season tyre test which was conducted during the summer months. Primarily an all season tyre test, Auto Bild were kind enough to include a summer and winter tyre for comparative purposes.
The results

Unsurprisingly the summer tyres won the dry and wet tests, but the winter tyre averaged just over 10% behind it’s summer counter part which is closer than expected. During the snow test, the summer tyre had less than 50% of the grip.

Our advice? If you commute during the winter and rely on your car to get to work, winter tyres will give superior grip on cold mornings without sacrificing more than 10% of summer tyre performance during the odd freak warm day.

Are Autocar part of your marketing conspiracy too?
http://www.autocar.co.uk/blogs/stillatthewheel/archive/2010/01/11/85547.aspx

On a level icy surface our long-term 635d on summer tyres could just about get going, but introduce any sort of incline or angle and it just struggled massively. While the 1-Series with winter tyres still slipped around a bit, it found traction much more quickly and generally felt ten times more secure. It even managed to keep going through thick fresh snow. Conditions that had us pushing the 6-Series.

Talking to the people at Conti here’s the really interesting thing - winter tyres aren’t just for snow, they can be used on slush, ice, frost and even wet roads. In fact any time the temperature dips below +7deg you’re better off on winter tyres. Apparently.

Also there’s no real reason you can’t use winter tyres all year round in the UK. There is some trade off in dry braking in really hot conditions, but this balanced with better braking in the wet and cold. Likewise the softer compound might wear more quickly in the summer, but this is balanced with better wear rates in the winter.

TireRack, quoting multiple sources:
http://www.automotive.com/auto-news/02/24889/index.html

At 44 degrees Fahrenheit (6.6c), on a road as wet as might be experienced during a snow melt, the braking distance from 56 MPH to 0 was reduced by 15 feet -- a full car length.

And lets not forget the point of this thread at this time of year, Winters will absolutely hammer Summers right now, as in 250% performance improvement, getting larger as the year progresses. Pulling over, getting out of the car in hazard conditions to put "socks" on the tyres is mind numbingly stupid as opposed just doing the right thing.

Winter tyres are not even expensive (nor do you "need" a 2nd set of alloys, I dont), come on guys, dont put penny pinching above all our safety!

Moanin

This might sound like a stupid question, but how would I know whether a tyre is a winter tyre or not? Is there any specific marking on the tyre wall?

Matt Simis

Moanin wrote: »

This might sound like a stupid question, but how would I know whether a tyre is a winter tyre or not? Is there any specific marking on the tyre wall?

Snow Flake symbol and usually a Wintery sounding name/branding. Just read the name and look it up. "M+S" (Mud + Snow) can be either All Season or Winter tyres afaik so thats not really a good way to tell.

What you dont want is dedicated "Snow" or studded tyres.

GTE

The Hankook all seasons I have on how have the snow flake mark as well so I dont know if that is the line between All Season and Winter tyres being blurred or if the Hankook (and its competitor Vector 4 Seasons from Goodyear) are a step above the rest of the all seasons.

Ill be getting two more of the Hankooks soon. Just in time too, it is getting very very cold in the past few days.

Bigus

I put a set of M+S tires on a RWD transit and it was then driving better out of a slippery quarry then 4wd with road tyres. Ask any body from austria how good winter tyres are. no need for studs or chains.

Anan1

Slightly OT, but the price of some winter tyres on eiretyres seems to be rising fast. Continental WinterContact TS 830P 215/60 R16 have jumped from €140ish to €175 in the past month.

yop

So would anyone go with these tiresocks?

I just email there about them


http://www.micksgarage.ie/CarSpec.aspx?mode=drilldown&DeptID=415&Make=16+inch+Wheel&BaseModel=&Year=&Engine=&PetrolDiesel=&MODEL=215+/+60+R16

Pricey!!!!

Matt Simis

yop wrote: »

So would anyone go with these tiresocks?

I just email there about them


http://www.micksgarage.ie/CarSpec.aspx?mode=drilldown&DeptID=415&Make=16+inch+Wheel&BaseModel=&Year=&Engine=&PetrolDiesel=&MODEL=215+/+60+R16

Pricey!!!!

Part-worn 16" Winters are like EUR40 each, so not a chance.
Whatever the gripes people may have about inspected used +5mm thread tires they can only vastly outperform those sock things. I assume you cannot drive on motorways with the socks either.

Mountainsandh

Thks everyone especially Vibe 666 for the "other" suggestions...

I still don't know what to do though .

I'm French and we used to stick on the snow chains often when I was a kid to go the skiing resorts. It wasn't too bad to fit them tbh. Ok, you've to do it out in the snow, but as the years went, the chains got better and easier to fit.
In my case, as I said, I have 6 miles of consistently lethal roads to drive on before I get onto the main road, and then on way back from town/work, I could stop and stick on the chains for the remainder of the journey.
So one of the setting up would be done from home, and only for the return journey would I need to stop on side of road.

So I'm inclined to go for the chains. These winter tyres don't look like they'd be much good on my road tbh.

The socks... hmm... not sure about their efficiency and durability. Might be worth it to spend that bit more on chains, they last ages.

Mountainsandh

Vertakill wrote: »

Get a set of cheap 'used' winter tires and have them fitted and you can most of your winter driving fears at the back of your mind.

Good idea actually, might just get something like that, and the chains too, since the tyres wouldn't do for the worst situations, but they would be a great help for the "fair bad" situations .

It's a good bit of money to be spending, then again, I've kids at home and being stuck for an entire week like last year, or/and taking chances every time we get out the driveway is pretty worrying.

johnb25

Matt Simis wrote: »

Part-worn 16" Winters are like EUR40 each, so not a chance.
Whatever the gripes people may have about inspected used +5mm thread tires they can only vastly outperform those sock things. I assume you cannot drive on motorways with the socks either.

Are part-worn winters easy to get hold of?
Do they have the same speed ratings etc as summer tyres?
I need to replace 4 tyres soon, so may do this.

Matt Simis

johnb25 wrote: »

Are part-worn winters easy to get hold of?
Do they have the same speed ratings etc as summer tyres?
I need to replace 4 tyres soon, so may do this.

Autodepot have several branches round the country. You just choose the best looking tyres if you want, but they are all quite good and pre-inspected. Speed Rating is likely lower, but still far higher than you are likely to be driving.

Autodepot stock Winters, as noted its 40ish fitted and balanced for 16" Winters (or Summers, no diff). For every extra inch in diameter add EUR10, for Run Flats, add another 10 premium.