Taoiseach's €820,000 bill for advisors

BluePlanet

didn't see much take up of this story.

Taoiseach defends €820,000 bill for advisors

Taoiseach Brian Cowen is today defending a wage bill of more than €800,000 a year for special advisors to him.

Mr Cowen told the Dáil that six special advisors cost the taxpayer €820,000 a year, one advisor less than in 2009.

“I think that anyone who would be knowledgeable in the area of the Department of the Taoiseach would recognise that there is a need for advisors to assist in relation to all the work that has to be done across Government,” he said.

Read more: http://www.breakingnews.ie/archives/2010/1019/ireland/taoiseach-defends-820000-bill-for-advisors-478339.html#ixzz12tqmrlRp

Seems like a pretty hefty bill for poor advice.

jmayo

It is interesting to check the names of these special advisors.

I know of one special advisor to bertie who was a party hack, albeit one with a hefty reputation as journalist and PR guru.
I know one of mary hanafins special advisors for last 10 years odd is averil power, a ff county council candidate, ex ogra TCD organiser and wife of fionnan sheehan political editor of Irish indepenedent.

BTW she is on around 100,000 per annum.
It always makes me wonder about old fionan's objectivity and his desire to see ff leave power.
After all the sheehan household would lose a fair whack of dosh when they do leave.

Someone can correct me on this but this habit of bringing in special advisors as way of giving jobs to party connneted types I think was kick started by Labour party in government back in the 90s ?

Of course bertie brought it to whole new level.

meditraitor

jmayo wrote: »

Someone can correct me on this but this habit of bringing in special advisors as way of giving jobs to party connneted types I think was kick started by Labour party in government back in the 90s ?

.

I think you should elaborate on that point rather than expect people to prove you wrong,,,, unless of course you know your wrong and your just mud slinging?

the_dark_side

Sgt. Bilko 09

Talk about taking care of your mates big boozer like em

jmayo

meditraitor wrote: »

I think you should elaborate on that point rather than expect people to prove you wrong,,,, unless of course you know your wrong and your just mud slinging?

Well from memory there were instances of Labour ministers bringing in raft of advisors some of which included family members if not party members.

Dick Spring had special advisors such as Fergus Finlay, John Rogers, Gregg Sparks and Willy Scally.

Did Labour in 1992 not introduce programme managers to monitor policy implementation in order to strengten the role of the Labour leader and Labour party in government ?
Each Minister had one Programme Manager and the Taoiseach and Tánaiste had two each.
The Programme Manager was akin to a Principal Officer.
They also brought in more party people from outside civil service termed Partnership Programme Managers who were to outmaneuvere the more cautious career officials upon whom FF relied on.

So no mud slinging, but fact is that they brought in special advisors originally with purpose of keeping eye on ff, but they were still more jobs for the party boys.

As a follow on from this I know someone with a theory that Labour began the politisation of the civil service and that this led to situation where the current civil service and in particular the likes of the Dept of Finance have become incapable of dealing with the financial situation.

BluePlanet

BluePlanet wrote: »

Seems like a pretty hefty bill for poor advice.

Only in Ireland can you get paid vasts amounts of money for nothing and wasted advise, bankers getting paid hundred of thousands for putting us in the mess we are in and then getting bailed out and no one doing jail time, money poored into a dead bank, developers been bailed out etc...

Is it any wonder this country is in a mess :rolleyes:

Gumbo

im a PS worked and im very dissappointed that its this type of over spending that brings the rest of the PS workforce into question.

to think what 800k could of done elsewhere?

ie. school construction/keeping beds open in certain hospitals etc etc

dunsandin

Is it not the case that the Govts special financial advisors (Merrill L.)concluded during the peak of the banking crisis when the banks sought the bail-out and guarantee, that the govt would be best not to do either? And were roundly ignored? If their advice had been heeded, their fees would have been a bargain. To seek advice and then ignore it, at a cost of many many thousands, is worse than the expense. Why exactly would a fair and equitable govt. ignore its own expert counsel??

GoldenEarring

jmayo wrote: »

It is interesting to check the names of these special advisors.

I know of one special advisor to bertie who was a party hack, albeit one with a hefty reputation as journalist and PR guru.
I know one of mary hanafins special advisors for last 10 years odd is averil power, a ff county council candidate, ex ogra TCD organiser and wife of fionnan sheehan political editor of Irish indepenedent.

BTW she is on around 100,000 per annum.
It always makes me wonder about old fionan's objectivity and his desire to see ff leave power.
After all the sheehan household would lose a fair whack of dosh when they do leave.

Someone can correct me on this but this habit of bringing in special advisors as way of giving jobs to party connneted types I think was kick started by Labour party in government back in the 90s ?

Of course bertie brought it to whole new level.

I am stunned to realise Fionnan Sheehan has such a strong connection with FF. He is utterly compromised. My respect for him has nose-dived.
Googled what you wrote and found the following:
AVERIL POWER is running for Fianna Fáil in the Howth-Malahide ward for the locals.
A former president of Trinity Students’ Union, she has also worked as a special advisor for Minister Mary Hanafin where her pay packet was the not inconsiderable sum of €94,740. The Department of Social and Family Affairs are the ones who brought you the cutting of the Christmas bonus. At least we know the people who advised the minister to do so don’t have to worry about their own Christmas.
Averil’s husband is Fionnan Sheahan, the political editor of the Irish Independent,
I feel so depressed reading this.

BornToKill

dunsandin wrote: »

Is it not the case that the Govts special financial advisors (Merrill L.)concluded during the peak of the banking crisis when the banks sought the bail-out and guarantee, that the govt would be best not to do either?

No, it's not the case. So the rest of the your post falls.

dunsandin

BornToKill wrote: »

No, it's not the case. So the rest of the your post falls.

Really?? How so? Please do explain.http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CBUQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rte.ie%2Fnews%2F2010%2F0716%2Fbanks.html&ei=EFm_TMquLsGS4ga9vuBw&usg=AFQjCNEsQ1ZfS0_aaIH8gukA0QBMLChfgg

BornToKill

Merrill Lynch didn't produce any simple conclusions and, in my opinion, it was probably unrealistic to except that they would given such a short timescale.

They gave a range of options and set out advantages and disadvantages of each. That's what Merrill Lynch, BCG, McKinsey, etc do. You can't seize on what in retrospect is one pearl of wisdom and conclude that they had all the answers. The truth of this is even in the link you posted reporting on the story:

"However, the email also states that 'there is no right or wrong answer' to the problem facing the Government...It also claimed that apart from liquidity concerns, 'all of the Irish banks are profitable and well capitalised', but warned that liquidity for some could run out in days rather than weeks.


Yeah, thanks a bunch guys. 'There is no right answer to the problem'. Worth every cent.

dunsandin

All advice requires filtration, but to ignore the downside is economic suicide, to quote Buffet, "rule 1:don't lose money, Rule 2:never forget rule 1". FF forgot rule 1, but sure it was only taxpayers money, and thats not really real, is it???

meditraitor

jmayo wrote: »

Well from memory there were instances of Labour ministers bringing in raft of advisors some of which included family members if not party members.

Dick Spring had special advisors such as Fergus Finlay, John Rogers, Gregg Sparks and Willy Scally.

Did Labour in 1992 not introduce programme managers to monitor policy implementation in order to strengten the role of the Labour leader and Labour party in government ?
Each Minister had one Programme Manager and the Taoiseach and Tánaiste had two each.
The Programme Manager was akin to a Principal Officer.
They also brought in more party people from outside civil service termed Partnership Programme Managers who were to outmaneuvere the more cautious career officials upon whom FF relied on.

So no mud slinging, but fact is that they brought in special advisors originally with purpose of keeping eye on ff, but they were still more jobs for the party boys.

As a follow on from this I know someone with a theory that Labour began the politisation of the civil service and that this led to situation where the current civil service and in particular the likes of the Dept of Finance have become incapable of dealing with the financial situation.

I think you will find that FG was the main government party back then...... so what your really saying is

Someone can correct me on this but this habit of bringing in special advisors as way of giving jobs to party connneted types I think was kick started by Labour fine gael party in government back in the 90s

Seth Brundle

GoldenEarring wrote: »

I am stunned to realise Fionnan Sheehan has such a strong connection with FF. He is utterly compromised. My respect for him has nose-dived.
Googled what you wrote and found the following:
AVERIL POWER is running for Fianna Fáil in the Howth-Malahide ward for the locals.
A former president of Trinity Students’ Union, she has also worked as a special advisor for Minister Mary Hanafin where her pay packet was the not inconsiderable sum of €94,740. The Department of Social and Family Affairs are the ones who brought you the cutting of the Christmas bonus. At least we know the people who advised the minister to do so don’t have to worry about their own Christmas.
Averil’s husband is Fionnan Sheahan, the political editor of the Irish Independent,
I feel so depressed reading this.

You never noticed the FF leanings of the independent papers until now :eek:

jmayo

GoldenEarring wrote: »

I am stunned to realise Fionnan Sheehan has such a strong connection with FF. He is utterly compromised. My respect for him has nose-dived.
Googled what you wrote and found the following:
AVERIL POWER is running for Fianna Fáil in the Howth-Malahide ward for the locals.
A former president of Trinity Students’ Union, she has also worked as a special advisor for Minister Mary Hanafin where her pay packet was the not inconsiderable sum of €94,740. The Department of Social and Family Affairs are the ones who brought you the cutting of the Christmas bonus. At least we know the people who advised the minister to do so don’t have to worry about their own Christmas.
Averil’s husband is Fionnan Sheahan, the political editor of the Irish Independent,
I feel so depressed reading this.

That is why I treat what I read in the papers, or at least what is written by some of the journalists with total distain.
Same with RTE and how some of it's prime stars are linked to ff.

BTW you do know that ryan tubridy is part of the tubridy/andrews ff clan.
His grandfather, two uncles were ff TDs and two cousins are current ff TDs.

BTW his little brother ran for council election and failed. LOL

meditraitor wrote: »

I think you will find that FG was the main government party back then...... so what your really saying is

And I thought you had an idea about what you were talking about :rolleyes:
FG was not the major party in government in 1992 when these extra outsiders and advisors were put in place.
It was ff under albert reynolds.

Labour and Spring surprised everyone, after their springtide result with increase in seats from 15 to 33, by going into power with ff.
It was in this government that these extra advisors were put in place.

That government lasted until November 1994 when it fell apart due to harry whelehan affair.

In December Labour, with Fine Gael and Democratic Left formed a coalition government, referred to as the 'Rainbow Coalition'.
And yes the advisors stayed but they were already in the door from previous regime.

Now try and get your facts straight next time and stop trying to spin it that it was FG or indeed ff that were somehow responsible.

meditraitor

jmayo wrote: »

That is why I treat what I read in the papers, or at least what is written by some of the journalists with total distain.
Same with RTE and how some of it's prime stars are linked to ff.

BTW you do know that ryan tubridy is part of the tubridy/andrews ff clan.
His grandfather, two uncles were ff TDs and two cousins are current ff TDs.

BTW his little brother ran for council election and failed. LOL



And I thought you had an idea about what you were talking about :rolleyes:
FG was not the major party in government in 1992 when these extra outsiders and advisors were put in place.
It was ff under albert reynolds.

Labour and Spring surprised everyone, after their springtide result with increase in seats from 15 to 33, by going into power with ff.
It was in this government that these extra advisors were put in place.

That government lasted until November 1994 when it fell apart due to harry whelehan affair.

In December Labour, with Fine Gael and Democratic Left formed a coalition government, referred to as the 'Rainbow Coalition'.
And yes the advisors stayed but they were already in the door from previous regime.

Now try and get your facts straight next time and stop trying to spin it that it was FG or indeed ff that were somehow responsible.

So before Labour there was no jobs for the boys mentality in government? Your spin of placing Labour at the birth of this dispicable behaviour is so obviously one of a FG mud sling tactic. The real truth is there has always been advisors with connections to government officials in the backround... This is not a labour invention and implying that Labour are is just another sign that the FG/FF civil war brigade who have so ruined this state are afraid of what is inevitable.... change is coming

jmayo

meditraitor wrote: »

So before Labour there was no jobs for the boys mentality in government? Your spin of placing Labour at the birth of this dispicable behaviour is so obviously one of a FG mud sling tactic. The real truth is there has always been advisors with connections to government officials in the backround... This is not a labour invention and implying that Labour are is just another sign that the FG/FF civil war brigade who have so ruined this state are afraid of what is inevitable.... change is coming

So you attack me for pointing out what you posted was incorrect.
You tried to twist it that some of the blame for this new level of advisors, brought in by Labour, was at the feet of FG as they were the primary party in government.
Except you made a balls of that because they weren't even in government. :rolleyes:

Yes there were always advisors and especially since cabinet responsibility came into being.
Indeed Garret Fitzgerald had advisors so that they could advise him on the matters happening in other departments that were outside his own brief.
Difference about what Labour did was they established a new high power layer of advisors that were outside the civil service.
They were on the same level as Primary Officers which would lead me to assume they were on the same salary scale.

Now you can claim that is mud slinging all you want, but it doesn't change the FACTS.
And if anything it is you that is mud slinging by trying to spin a party into it that wasn't even in government.

Nijmegen

The idea of political appointments to advise government is a good one in principal. After all, do we not complain that the "permanent government", the civil service, often has an agenda of their own.

In the US there are thousands of appointments in the public service that change with each new administration. There are a core of administrators, but the leaders are largely appointed.

This is a good model.

However, predictably, in Ireland we have a model where it is jobs for the boys no matter their expertise, and I note Cowen's advisers are on more than the typical salary of a managing director. That's crazy.

jmayo

averil power who I mentioned above has been employed by mary hanafin since 2002 or so and last time I checked she was on a salary of close to 100,000 euro.

And what is her role ?
Oh she is down as a political advisor or policy advisor to hanafin.

To quote her Linkedin entry.
http://ie.linkedin.com/in/averilpower

As the Minister's sole policy adviser, I am responsible for devising and analysing public policy proposals, writing speeches and monitoring delivery of the Programme for Government. Interacting with top-level officials from several government departments, elected representatives and interest groups is central to my role.

What is her qualifications and experience since leaving Trinity college ?
Oh yeah she worked for ff and was placed on advisory councils, committees courtesy of her party allegiances.

She is good example of what these advisors often are, party hacks hanging around in very well paid jobs courtesy of us the taxpayers, often while they try and kick start their own political careers.

tim_holsters

GoldenEarring wrote: »

I am stunned to realise Fionnan Sheehan has such a strong connection with FF. He is utterly compromised.

Totally agree. I've wondered in the past about his attitude towards the FF parasites, now things are a lot clearer.