Britian to reduces forces my 17000

twinytwo

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/Politics/Defence-Review-The-Number-Of-Britains-Armed-Forces-Will-Be-Cut-By-17000/Article/201010315761288?lpos=Politics_Carousel_Region_0&lid=ARTICLE_15761288_Defence_Review%3A_The_Number_Of_Britains_Armed_Forces_Will_Be_Cut_By_17%2C000

skelliser

Scrapping the Ark royal.

Scrapping all Harriers.

No fast jet capability until 2019, until the QE and prince of wales come on stream.
Even those need to be redesigned cause they were originally NOT able to handle the JSF!! Unbeleivable **** up!

Cutting over 100 tanks.

Withdrawing all bases in Germany.

Possible hint at scrapping trident after the next election.


Serious cutbacks by any account! 8% in total.

Steyr

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2010/10/19/348641/cameron-uk-to-swap-jsfs-to-carrier-variant-axe-harrier-and-nimrod.html


Aircraft
DATE:19/10/10
SOURCE:Flightglobal.com


Cameron: UK to swap JSFs to carrier variant, axe Harrier and Nimrod
By Craig Hoyle



The BAE Systems Harrier GR9, Nimrod MRA4 and Lockheed Martin’s short take-off and vertical landing F-35B have been confirmed as the main casualties of the UK coalition government’s Strategic Defence and Security Review (SDSR).

Announcing the results of the review process on 19 October, prime minister David Cameron said the Royal Air Force’s long-delayed Nimrod MRA4 programme is to be cancelled, while the UK’s remaining Harriers will be retired early to safeguard the service’s fleet of Panavia Tornado GR4s, which he says deliver more capability in Afghanistan.

Cameron also slammed the previous Labour government’s selection of the F-35B, and says the UK intends to switch its selection to the JSF’s “more capable, less expensive and longer-range” carrier variant (F-35C pictured below). The decision will also require one of the Royal Navy’s two Queen Elizabeth-class aircraft carriers to be equipped with catapult launch equipment.



Previous plans to greatly increase the size of the RAF’s Boeing CH-47 Chinook fleet have also been watered down, with the Ministry of Defence to acquire just 12 more aircraft. This will increase the RAF’s inventory of the type to 60 aircraft, Cameron says, with an earlier commitment to upgrade the service’s Eurocopter Puma transports to be safeguarded.

Other actions announced by Cameron include plans to cut 5,000 RAF personnel by 2015. This will leave the service with an operating strength of 33,000.

Cancellation of the Nimrod MRA4 programme brings to an end a troubled acquisition programme worth around £3.6 billion – the bulk of which has already been spent. Contracted in 1996, the project was originally to have delivered 21 maritime patrol aircraft, but had subsequently been slashed to just nine.



The decision leaves the UK with no dedicated maritime patrol aircraft capability, and extends a gap caused by the retirement of the RAF’s last Nimrod MR2s earlier this year.

Cameron says the measures to be adopted will result in financial savings worth £4.7 billion over the life of the review period. The process was launched to address a defence budget “Black Hole” totalling £38 billion.

time lord

Can anyone remember when they culled people before. I saw two officers on active service in the Balkans who got notice their services would no longer be required.

They were on the news and looked and came across as devestated. "pink slipped" is that what its called, anyhow how bitter would any of us feel if that happened to us especially if notified while deployed?:(

Steyr

Did you see the guy ( EXRAF ) who owns a pub outside RAF Kinloss, he broke down and cried.

Steyr

Maybe the new Boeing P8 Poseidon as a Nimrod replacement? Any ideas?

OS119

there appears to be consideration being given to a proposal by the manufacturer of the RQ-4 Global Hawk for a 'pay as you search' contract with the RQ-4 having a MP/ASW payload.

apart from that i see P-8 as being the only show in town - i've no idea when its current production run is due to end, so i don't know whether the 2015-2020 defence budget might be able to hop onto the program.

there is lots of very high level concern about the loss of the MRA4 capability though, it looks like being something that may well be re-visited pretty soon. Nimrod is dead, but i wouldn't be that surprised to see some kind of fixed wing ASW capability wiggled into the SDSR...

Darith

It would appear the artillery corps is going to be hit as well. 100 tanks, what percentage reduction are we talking about in the armour corps in this case ?

OS119

Darith wrote: »

It would appear the artillery corps is going to be hit as well. 100 tanks, what percentage reduction are we talking about in the armour corps in this case ?

the Challenger 2 force is being reduced from 360 to 260, but the Artillery reduction isn't clear yet - whatever the government may say - its not yet been decided what proportions of the AS90 vs GMLRS fleets will be retired. it appears that thetotal Artillery reduction will be by by around 25%, but until its worked out what prooprtion of what sysytems are going its difficult to say what the firepower loss is...

my own view is that AS90 will take the bigger hit.

its also pretty likely that whatever equipment is required is going to be mothballed rather than scrapped - quite simply there's no one in the market for a Chally 2/GMLRS/AS90 armoured force that the UK would be particularly keen on selling one to, and covering this stuff in WD40, wrapping it in plastic and sticking it in a warehouse costs very little compared to buying it all again should the need arise.

LighterGuy

So anyone who is thinking of joining the british army has no chance what so ever now?

OS119

LighterGuy wrote: »

So anyone who is thinking of joining the british army has no chance what so ever now?

not at all - the loss of 17,000 personnel/posts (out of 160,000-odd) primarily comes from the loss of particular platforms like Nimrod, surface ships and some Armour - unless an applicant is looking to join a very specific, effected trade they'll not face any more difficulty that they will currently.

by and large the losses are intended to be losses of posts rather than redundancies - because redundancies are expensive - and it'll happen through natural wastage, and natural wastage and the 'up or out' personnel management system in the UK forces mean that there will always be vacancies at entry level.

its possible there'll be recruitment pauses - as much so that the precise detail or how many entrants of each tech trade will be required given the loss of the associated platforms can be worked out as to save money - but they'll be no recruitment embargo of the like and duration seen in Ireland.

Darith

At least they have not reduced any more battalions. I sincerely hope it is natural wastage and not redundancies .Will the retirement of the harrier fleet mean a overall reduction in front line squadrons? If memory serves they have already been reduced this decade. Reducing the Royal Navy Surface fleet will present alot of challenges. Thank god there is no recruitment embargo after the damage it done in the past.
I find it ironic that the Armed Forces could nearly suffer as much damage from misbehavior within the financial sectors both nationally and internationally of the economies they are supposed to be protecting instead from those they are currently fighting.

Darith

I also think it is a mistake to decommission the Ark Royal.

goldie fish

Darith wrote: »

I also think it is a mistake to decommission the Ark Royal.

Invincible may yet be saved. Seems the Libya experience has changed their minds somewhat.

OS119

goldie fish wrote: »

Invincible may yet be saved. Seems the Libya experience has changed their minds somewhat.

dirty rumour doing the rounds is that a small AAC task force of AH-64's is being chopped for a deployment to Libya (open source) - given that its a fecking long way from any NATO base to Libya - far too long for an AH-64 with 30mm ammo and Hellfire ATGW to get there, do a strike and get back - a maritime basing capability is required.

HMG is furiously trying to pretend that the SDSR isn't being re-written as we speak, but it looks like Nimrod R1 has been saved until Rivet Joint arrives, Tornado GR4 will stay for longer, and in larger numbers, than previously decided - and i wouldn't be remotely surprised to see both Illustrious and Ocean continue in the LPH role, rather than just one of them, as was in SDSR.

Vince, sadly, is already dead, as is the Ark - but Lusty is, i believe in a long term re-fit which has saved her in the most immediate term.

goldie fish

Was it lusty? Whichever is in refit, (and not heading for breakers yard) is currently getting a fresh coat of anti slip paint for its deck. Some are suggesting that it isnt for the helis, but for the Harriers.

OS119

goldie fish wrote: »

...but for the Harriers.

yeah, its all gone very quiet on that front hasn't it?

lots of publicity when the MRA4's got chopped up, but nothing on physically taking Harrier out of service - those of us with nasty, suspicious minds might think that a U-turn is in the offing...

goldie fish

The fact that the F35B seems to be a dead duck may also be influencing their mind.

OS119

goldie fish wrote: »

The fact that the F35B seems to be a dead duck may also be influencing their mind.

nah, i don't think the F-35/QE issue has any bearing on it - the problem is a lack of airframes and the length of time its taking to get aircraft over Libya and the time they can stay there.

an 800 mile round trip merely to get there and back, with a two hour holding patern to wait for a target to appear and then whack it, means that the number of sorties you can squeeze into a 24hr period is pretty small - it also means that when aircraft get to Libya they aren't carrying much ordnance to actually use because fuel contraints.

as an example, a recent RAF publicity photo of a Tyhoon leaving Sigi showed the aircraft carrying 2 EPWII's, 2 ASRAAM's, and a LiteningIII pod. it carried two external drop tanks, but even then it had two empty wing pylons (rated for EPWII and ASRAAM), and four empty fuselage hardpoints rated for AMRAAM. the lack of AMRAAM or ALARM missiles or additional EPWII's - caused by the range problem - meant that other aircraft had to perform the air polcing role, as well as the SEAD role.

one GR9 operating from 20 miles off the coast could of carried PWIV (a better weapon for the job than EPWII), Brimstone anti-armour missiles, ALARM anti-radiation missiles, fuel and ASRAAM's. it probably could have stayed longer on task, as well as gone back and forth to complete more sorties during a 24hr period - it also would take much less time to get to an opportunity target than a Tornado or Typhoon from Sigi.

condemmining-the-idiot-who-got-rid-of-carrier-aviation rant over. and breathe...