Kickboxing's lack of popularity

Creampie

I thought I'd start this here as I'm unsure of a better spot for it.

I've watched some cards recently and enjoyed them very much. The format is short, which encourages action. Guys can't just flick out a kick and run around the ring and hope to steal a decision. With only 9 minutes of fighting guys go at each other and you get a lot of action in a short period of time.

I think it is maybe the most exciting comabt sport on the whole. You get plenty of dull boxing matches, crappy MMA fights where guys abandon what they're good at so you end with two poorly skilled guys throwing punches on their feet, very sloppy a lot of the time. Akiyama for one just the other day abandoned what he's good to trade punches, which he is pretty poor at.

I was listening to a Joe Rogan podcast recently and he made the point that a lot of MMA fans should be kickboxing fans, you know the guys who boo when it goes to the ground for a few seconds and who just want to see guys trading punches on their feet. It made a lot of sense to me.

In kickboxing the format is short, you get lots of action with guys solely striking, engaging a lot, and you get some stunning knockouts.

Which leads me to my next point; how badly is kickboxing promoted? I mean really, you have an exciting product and nobody is watching. Everyone is interested in MMA now and you have a decent enough amount who are still interested in boxing. I think kickboxing should be much more popular than it is and a lot of MMA fans should probably be kickboxing fans too. Just take a look at the main forums around, very few will have a kickboxing section.

I'd like to know what your thoughts are. Sorry if I started rambling or if I made no sense at all.

chprt

nah kickboxing is really good. I love sittin in painting my toe nails washing my hair and sitting down with a glass of wine to watch kickboxing, there really should be more of it on the tv

siochain

your talking about K1 format, right?

hisholinessnb

Eurosport is very good for kickboxing, regular K1 fighting, fight club has kickboxing / muay thai etc also the world combat games in china is being shown this week with a mix of different martial arts including kickboxing.

cowzerp

When Joe rogan Say's there kickboxing in MMA he is dumbing down that there performing striking arts, usually a combo of Boxing and Muay Thai (not always the case i know!) he is talking to the regular Joe who does not know the difference between Kickboxing, K1 or Muay Thai, Kickboxing is a bit boring to me, K1 format i really like in saying that.

Anyway, people vote with there feet and Kickboxing is just not really popular because people just don't get off on it.

hisholinessnb

I do agree with that, as I said theres plenty of kickboxing (along with K1 and muay thai etc) shown regularly on Eurosport.
If the appetite was there for it then the show would be hugely popular.
But its not. But if you are into it then its there to enjoy, so do so and don't worry about what other people want to watch.

p.s. how annoying is that present with the dreadlocks on "fight club"

chprt

go to England at least every 4 wkds and there will be a massive show on 5-8000 people at it, same in Holland to watch muay thai fighting, its massive....

theres just not the money in Ireland to bring in the fighters and pay the purses at the minute

cowzerp

chupasart.com wrote: »

go to England at least every 4 wkds and there will be a massive show on 5-8000 people at it, same in Holland to watch muay thai fighting, its massive....

theres just not the money in Ireland to bring in the fighters and pay the purses at the minute

When did Muay thai become Kickboxing!

chprt

When did Muay thai become Kickboxing!

hopefully it never will

If the appetite was there for it then the show would be hugely popular.

I was simply stating that there was an appetite for shows, but ifs your not in the circle fro that sport its very hard to know these huge shows exist, as there is often very little mention of them on here

siochain

I would say interest in Ireland in KB in Ireland is on the increase clubs I attend have had big increase in club members and numbers entering junior tournaments is way up.

I would find it strange that low kick is a must for someone to attend a show. If there was a decent card regardless of what style I would attend and appreciate it for what it is.

Don’t see many K1 or KB shows in around Dublin but Black Dragons run a few shows a year in Galway and by all accounts there shows are good.

TV, as mentioned above Fight Club on Eurosport is your best bet.

black dragon

Kickboxing in Galway is in great shape and our shows are always well attended - about 900 at our last show in May and Kikenny is busy also as last Sunday Top Pro had a full house as did Dragons Lair two weeks previous to that.
My next show in Black Box Galway is on Dec 4 and so far I have 3 fighters flyin in from Geneva, 3 K-1 fights, 3 IKF All Ireland Title fights and about 6 support bouts and I'll guarantee a full house.
Paddy Toland has well attended shows in Donegal/Derry.
People moan about not getting crowds at their shows - well spend some money on advertising them and let people know the shows are on and they may go see it but if they don't know about it .............well!!!
By the way - I'm lookin to match Aidan Brooks in a K-1 fight over 3 x 3 min rds on Dec 4 at 88-90kg - this is open to ALL Kickboxing & Thai Boxing clubs.

JohnMc1

Jordyn Enough Schoolmarm wrote: »

Even K1 with what it allows and doesn't allow, to me is a watered down muay thai, so why I would pay to go see a show where they aren't even allowed to low kick is beyond me.

K-1 isn't Muay Thai rules. Its International Rules. And since when can they not allowed to low kick in K-1?

JohnMc1

Jordyn Enough Schoolmarm wrote: »

No K1 isn't Mt rules,

Didn't I just say that? K-1 is International rules. So when someone says K-1 rules they are referring to International Rules.

I love Muay Thai as much as the next fan but it isn't the be all and end all of all Kickboxing styles.

JohnMc1

Jordyn Enough Schoolmarm wrote: »

Apologies I thought you were saying I said it was, I can see how it looked confusing how I had things typed.

No problem Jordyn Enough Schoolmarm.

Sid_Justice

Jordyn Enough Schoolmarm wrote: »

And MMA/UFC lads don't seem to a) kick very hard or b) block them very well in comparison to a thai boxer.

Like every other boxer/kickboxer/Thaiboxer you attempt to judge the striking in MMA as if it's in a kickboxing context. It isn't. People don't throw as many kicks, or throw as many 100% kicks in MMA because a badly timed kick can lead to a take down etc.

Are you saying a typical UFC fighter like Forrest griffen doesn't hit hard? Compared to who? Peter Aerts? Compared to Jo Bridgestone blogs? Or are you talking about someone more local.

Jordyn Enough Schoolmarm wrote: »

And yes sure people will say why arent there more MTboxers in MMA/UFC - there arent that many that would be heavy enough.

MMA is fought internationally and at a high level from 125, 135, 145 and 155 lbs up. Does thai boxing stop at 125? There aren't many Thai boxers in MMA because Pure strikers get mauled by grapplers. and rarely win.

Why make a comparison between 2 completely different sports especially when you don't understand the latter?

Just in case this got lost in translation. Of course a pure Thai boxer is way better at kicking than a MMA fighter. This is obvious and not worth stating except that JG has shown himself to be severely misinformed.

Niall Keane

Like every other boxer/kickboxer/Thaiboxer you attempt to judge the striking in MMA as if it's in a kickboxing context. It isn't. People don't throw as many kicks, or throw as many 100% kicks in MMA because a badly timed kick can lead to a take down etc.

Are you saying a typical UFC fighter like Forrest griffen doesn't hit hard? Compared to who? Peter Aerts? Compared to Jo Bridgestone blogs? Or are you talking about someone more local.

That's why sanda / sanshou is the future Sid! ;-) 1500,000,000 Chinese and striking and grappling but no making love on the ground!:D

Honestly, I think the days of hype are almost over, eventually the truth will emerge, professional athletes train for specific disiplines, and take any of them out of their format into another, and any professional will expect to take a few years and a lot of experience to become top dog no matter how good they are!

Sid_Justice

I was only talking about kicks. I was merely stating that to me, and no I don't have a great love for MMA, that to me some the kicks thrown look very slopy and a lot of them end up being taken on the thigh/hip rather than blocked.

Like I don't want to draw this out any more that is necessary. But you're saying from your irregular and infrequent viewing of MMA you have seen some technically poor kicks? Have you never seen a sloppy kick thrown in a Thai fight due to fatigue or other reason?

No it doesn't stop at 125. By not heavy enough I was talking Jermoe Le Banner/Mirko cro cop size.

Plenty of Thai fighters at 155 lbs, why don't they enter MMA?

Maybe you are right they could get mauled (their opponent might also learn why it can be important to block a kick to the thigh ) ,if anyone wants to put on a thai v MMA event I am more than happy to buy a ticket.

No I am right. There is debate amongst the MMA community about the importance of checking leg kicks. Most people agree, checking is important but others will say that you only take a small amount of leg kicks per fight in a mma match compared to a Thai fight, and that the effect is usually slow and cumulative that you can risk not checking a couple of leg kicks as long as you don't take too many. Most of the pain etc. from leg kicks hits you the next day. I'm not trying to argue with a thai boxer about leg kicks and i'm not saying they don't wreck people but i'm trying to explain that MMA is fought under a different context. nobody wants to watch Thai versus MMA because it's not 1995 anymore and everyone knows that a MMA fighter will beat a Thai fighter in a MMA fight 99 times out of a 100 and vice versa.

Sid_Justice

Niall Keane wrote: »

That's why sanda / sanshou is the future Sid! ;-) 1500,000,000 Chinese and striking and grappling but no making love on the ground!:D

Not so sure about this Niall. Yes, San shou has a greater range of techniques within it but one could argue that the best 'kickboxers' are Thai boxers and the best Wrestlers are Wrestlers. Removing ground fighting is artificial, I understand some prefer this aesthetic but ultimately i don't think it's useful for the MMA fighter. I am still open about these things but right now my opinion is:

MMA fighter should learn kickboxing from the best kickboxers = Muay Thai
MMA fighter should learn wrestling from the best wrestlers = Wrestling
MMA fighter should learn grappling from the best grapplers = BJJ

There is no evidence that Sanshou fighters transfer into MMA better than thai boxers or that sanshou is a better craft to learn for a MMA fighter but that might be purely due to lack of trials. Can't really think of any successful mma fighter other than cung le.

To answser the original question, I don't think kickboxing offers anything really exciting that isn't in boxing. MMA on the other hand offers an entirely different product. Muay thai, for all its attractions, is a very ethnic sport, and by it's nature, won't transcend boundaries.

K1 is a great product, but is ultimately the same people fighting each other with the same fan base UK, Netherlands, bits of continental Europe and Eastern.

black dragon

A show in Kilkenny two weeks ago had two 115kg men go at it in a kickboxing fight and one guy knocked the other one out with a spinning back kick to the face at one min and 50 seconds of round one - crowd went crazy with excitement.
Last week a kickboxer knocked out a Thaiboxer with a straight back kick to the midsection in round two in Waterford - the guy could'nt get off the floor to beat the count.
Both KO's seemed exciting enough to everyone at the shows - not too often you'd see that action in MMA or Muay Thai - and before everyone starts knockin - I'm a big fan of all combat sports and support them all - just doin my bit to support kickboxing.

Khannie

JohnMc1 wrote: »

I love Muay Thai as much as the next fan but it isn't the be all and end all of all Kickboxing styles.

Ah it is yeah.

Mac2010

Hey lads is there any kickboxing competition that is open to any nationalities? just to try out and test his/her ability.I have a friend who won the title of the World Intercontinental WKN Championship in 2006.he trains sometimes but according to him he wants to try out something and compete with other people.he hasnt searched deeply online or offline because of his lack of English.any ideas welcome, Thanks in advance:)

black dragon

Whats his name, weight, nationality, fight record etc?

crosstrainer1

Ive had allot clubs contacting me over the years looking for fighters but with no real standard rules as there are kickboxing clubs Thai clubs. freestyle, mma ect. the last person tried to sell their kick competition as for people who cant grapple but can do stand up competition. if kickboxing was to be run with the same striking rules as mma it would be more appealing to myself and others i know

siochain

crosstrainer1 wrote: »

if kickboxing was to be run with the same striking rules as mma it would be more appealing to myself and others i know

that equals Mauy Thai or are you talking about the gloves or both or what?

crosstrainer1

siochain wrote: »

that equals Mauy Thai or are you talking about the gloves or both or what?

no 10z gloves a cross between muay thai and savate rules. all hand stikes including back fist. hammer fist and all types of kick including thrust kicks anyone willing to set up a competion like that would draw a good crowd

Peetrik

crosstrainer1 wrote: »

no 10z gloves a cross between muay thai and savate rules. all hand stikes including back fist. hammer fist and all types of kick including thrust kicks anyone willing to set up a competion like that would draw a good crowd

So Muay Thai with foot sweeps allowed but no elbows?

This is just my opinion from doing clinch work but... If you allow foot sweeping (tripping) then your going to have to allow fighters to grapple while they attempt to foot sweep as its a legal move. This could very easily turn into rounds of wrestling which in my opinion would be boring.
With Thai clinch is only allowed to continue while knees are being thrown, otherwise the ref breaks them up.

So to sum up Muay Thai would be much better and more exciting to watch.

crosstrainer1

Peetrik wrote: »

So Muay Thai with foot sweeps allowed but no elbows?

This is just my opinion from doing clinch work but... If you allow foot sweeping (tripping) then your going to have to allow fighters to grapple while they attempt to foot sweep as its a legal move. This could very easily turn into rounds of wrestling which in my opinion would be boring.
With Thai clinch is only allowed to continue while knees are being thrown, otherwise the ref breaks them up.

So to sum up Muay Thai would be much better and more exciting to watch.

foot sweeps in for long distance not the clinch you could have 3 areas amature say hands and feet only, semi pro hands feet knees and pro hands feet elbows. there can be a 5 second clinch rules then break off round can go amature 3x 2mins to semi 3x3mins to pro 5x3mins i would go head gear body armour and shin guards for amature , head gear shin for semi pro and just foam shin guards for pro no head gear this would encourage the the use of kick and not turn it into a boxing match

OLDMAN1

crosstrainer1 wrote: »

foot sweeps in for long distance not the clinch you could have 3 areas amature say hands and feet only, semi pro hands feet knees and pro hands feet elbows. there can be a 5 second clinch rules then break off round can go amature 3x 2mins to semi 3x3mins to pro 5x3mins i would go head gear body armour and shin guards for amature , head gear shin for semi pro and just foam shin guards for pro no head gear this would encourage the the use of kick and not turn it into a boxing match

It already exsists really,SANSHOU-SANDA-KUOSHU!!!