bullpup design, good or bad?:)

adam_newe

alri lads have heard some debates over the months about bullpup designs and there flaws and advantages:)

what does everyone else think, good or bad?:P

Shiva

adam_newe wrote: »

alri lads have heard some debates over the months about bullpup designs and there flaws and advantages:)

what does everyone else think, good or bad?:P

Bad
Very bad.

Mods: request lock.

NakedDex

Some find the mag position awkward to change (I personally don't). Beyond that, I don't see a single disadvantage of a bullpup configuration. There's a reason all the big RS weapons manufacturers are sinking R&D in these designs.

Also, ignore Shiva. He has no taste. This is clearly evident by his multicam use. The man has a gold 1911 ffs...

thermo

adam_newe wrote: »

alri lads have heard some debates over the months about bullpup designs and there flaws and advantages:)

what does everyone else think, good or bad?:P

no need to shout!
i like the bullpup design, it allows you to have a full length rifle barrel in a carbine length weapon. as for mag placement, you get used to it fairly quickly.

Puding

a lot of the real world disadvantages do not translate into airsoft but fortunately a lot of the advantages do, know this does change a little between models ( aug tavor p90 fn200 etc etc )

advantages
- long inner barrel small over all length
- a lot of models are ambidextrous


disadvantages
- ergonomics ( depends on the person )
- mag position ( depends on model )
- control position ( depends on model )

thermo

i think the styer both real and airsoft are great,
in the airsoft version the 2 stage trigger and a well positioned safety make it easy to operate right and left handed.

adam_newe

yes i think i will ignore shivas stupid statement:L

and multicam=fail:L

i personnelly love em:D

i own a famas f1 and love the lenght of the barrel and the fact its very small and comfy to hold:)

keep em comin:P

Hande hoche!

Bad,on some models your ear ends up right next to the gearbox.

thermo

Hande hoche! wrote: »

Bad,on some models your ear ends up right next to the gearbox.

i had an aug a3 and it was the quietest aeg ive owned

Hande hoche!

thermo wrote: »

i had an aug a3 and it was the quietest aeg ive owned

Fair enough the only experience I have had with airsoft bullpups are the Famas and Fn2000.

*flees thread*

thermo

Hande hoche! wrote: »

Fair enough the only experience I have had with airsoft bullpups are the Famas and Fn2000.

*flees thread*

i was not having a go at you, more posting my experience, with the styers a good shim job will quieten the gearbox, and in the augs there is a little space around the gearbox to put foam which also dampens the sound a little bit.

my 2c

J.D.R

A big problem with bullpups tends to be one sided weight. I find that the Aug A1 which I have owned and used seemed to be very back heavy. The same can be said for the L85.

But, I shoudl say, that is the only small drawback in my opinion. For the shear fact that you can easily use a L85 for both long range and CQB is brilliant.

And the noises aren't much worse then normal AEG configurations.

Plus, the P90 is just so sexy:cool:

Lemming

J.D.R wrote: »

A big problem with bullpups tends to be one sided weight. I find that the Aug A1 which I have owned and used seemed to be very back heavy. The same can be said for the L85.

But, I shoudl say, that is the only small drawback in my opinion. For the shear fact that you can easily use a L85 for both long range and CQB is brilliant.

I would have thought the weighting of a bull-pup would be a benefit, not a hinderance, especially if you have to operate one-handed (you're running and have to fire across your body or some such, carrying something, etc.). Most of the weight is taken by your forearm and elbow rather than all on your wrist which you'll find with an armalite/kalash variant.

I've used quite a few bull-pups in skirmishes and longer events and enjoyed using them; Steyr AUG A1 (also my very first AEG), L85A1, and TAR-21 (tavor)

J.D.R

Lemming wrote: »

I would have thought the weighting of a bull-pup would be a benefit, not a hinderance, especially if you have to operate one-handed (you're running and have to fire across your body or some such, carrying something, etc.). Most of the weight is taken by your forearm and elbow rather than all on your wrist which you'll find with an armalite/kalash variant.

TBH, it depends. I find on the L85 it is a great help, but the Aug was just too unbalanced for my liking.

chris20

i love the bullpup design,have a tavor myself and i love using it,very easy to change mags and since there is still a long barrel its great over distance and cqb,great gun to hold too

deco nate

i agree jdr,i got a l85 here on boards.and
tbh i love it,anyone that i have played with since buyin it has only
seein me with this gun,it is that good imo.but now it needs a new
hop rubber.only fires bout 20-30 feet with out any hop on,will
be sorted next week when i give it to my man to sort:D.
so you (op) ask are they good in airsoft..yes.if you
get the one that suites you,great in all types of game
play,you just need to know how to play:)

edit:switch from semi to full auto can be a bit of a
pain if your right handed,rubs off your body can change it from one to the other.get over
this fault and its great

andy_g

deco nate wrote: »

i agree jdr,i got a l85 here on boards.and
tbh i love it,anyone that i have played with since buyin it has only
seein me with this gun,it is that good imo.but now it needs a new
hop rubber.only fires bout 20-30 feet with out any hop on,will
be sorted next week when i give it to my man to sort:D.
so you (op) ask are they good in airsoft..yes.if you
get the one that suites you,great in all types of game
play,you just need to know how to play:)

edit:switch from semi to full auto can be a bit of a
pain if your right handed,rubs off your body can change it from one to the other.get over
this fault and its great

Ewwww. sa80. oh wait i have one. never had that problem from it switching dec

deco nate

andy_g wrote: »

Ewwww. sa80. oh wait i have one. never had that problem from it switching dec

now now,andy i showed you wot it said on the side L85!!:D
happened a few times to me mate rubbin off my vest.
great gun through.il show you again next week WHAT IT
SAYS ON THE SIDE OF IT!! lol
edit:mine is well used,but well loved too,
seen the same grump from yer man in the us that does good reviews..
ill dig up his name

deco nate

i ment he's a scot.
heres his review

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FrHLst7GrI

andy_g

Yeah that guy has good videos. On my L85 i have a nice stiff switch hehe even when slung not a bother.

Right im off to the land of xbox

deco nate

land o bed for me,maybe see you tomorrow for a game,by
the by moh is ****e sorry for goin o t

NakedDex

The rear-biased weight distribution of a bullpup is inherint in it's design, there's little you can actually do about it. That said, due to the configuration around said weight, it usually works as a positive.
As Lemming said, you can shoulder a bullpup one-handed and still fire accurately, since your operating hand is supporting very little of the weight. Compare that to, say an M4, and you have a very different situation. Shoulder an M4 one handed and you'll realise very quickly how much weight your operating hand will bear, and that's not conducive to one-handed operation or accurate on-the-run firing.

Some bullpups have more forward centre of gravities than others. The Steyr AUG A1 and A2, for example, are quite far back, but in an advantageous manner. The F2000 is more forward since there's a lot more bodywork up front to balance it. The L85 is aft of the pistol grip, but the metal bodywork makes it heavier than most.
Generally, bullpups tend to balance somewhere around your wrist when you're holding it shouldered, or so I've found.

As with everything, there are exceptions. The Steyr AUG A3, for example, seems to balance around a point somewhere around three miles in front of it, due to that enormous metal rail kit. Same goes for the HBAR and the L85 LSW, for obvious reasons (that said, I still find the L85 LSW easier to shoulder than a FAL, despite similar length).

Manic Moran

I like 'em.

Balance to the rear allows for faster changes in point of aim, and is less tiring to hold in the aim for long periods. On the down-side, it does reduce the compensation effect on recoil, so follow-on shots can be slower than a forward-weighted rifle like a SIG 556. I've always thought the mag change argument was a bit of a red herring. You're going around in squads of nine or so, chances are that for the extra second it take to change the mag, someone in your squad is capable of shooting. And, of course, you get a full-length barrel in something the length of a carbine.

Biggest disadvantage is that it is very difficult to change the length of pull on a bullpup. I do know some people who refuse to have the chamber next to their cheek, in case of a catastrophic failure, but in my opinion if you're particularly worried that the weapon will explode, you probably want to be looking at a different rifle to begin with. Having a trigger which is as smooth as a conventional rifle's is also very difficult (read: expensive) to do, but for line applications it's less of an issue: we're not talking sniper rifle levels of precision required here.

NTM (Current owner of an AXR, formerly of an M17S)

Gatling

i like bullpups only used an l85 for about an hour during play ,kinda weird at first mainly the front grip and shouldering ,im holding out for a ICS LSW after christmas ,
the best of the lot for me is the p90 only wish the kept they design for the 2000 ,id would have to have seen top loading mags again on the bulkier reciever of the f2000

Stealthirl

well i love my G&G F2000

pros
443mm length barrel is only about 50mm off a m16 one.
it out ranges every gun iv compared it to
its very accurate out to about 45-50M
if needed its easy to fire 1 handed even if ur arm is out stretched
2 stage trigger
quick adjust spring/FPS
quick change spring
i find mag changes to be very easy and logical
the gun is quite with just a thud on semi

cons in my view
it can be heavy after a while when skirmishing if your not use to it
some mid caps don't fit but can with a few min work even for a beginner
butt plate can come off easy
slowish trigger response
some mids with strong springs can pop a few bb's into the receiver when removed

i would think G&G are lacking common seance if they do not bring out a P90 with the same internals,if they did it would be the p90 id buy !

Manic Moran

Oh, depending on how much you want to guccify your rifle, there's only so much real estate on a bullpup. Between the EOTech, magnifier, iron sights and flashlight, I'm out of room on my AXR. I realise that the AUG A3, for example, has more inch of rail, but it all starts to get rather crowded up front.

NTM

Chuck the Buck

On the subject of balance point of bullpups the Real Sword Type 97 (full length rifle) apparently has a balance point just at the pistol grip while the Type 97B (carbine length) balances just behind the pistol grip. The 97B is no problem to to shoot one handed (either shouldered or arm out streched) and I believe the same goes for the full length version too.

Danin

have to say they're a grower, initially I didn't like them but over time playing with a variety of them they work they're magic on ya. The Steyr A1 is fantastic if you're lucky to get a good one and they seem to me to be making a come back of sorts, I know a lot of the lads up here really like them and the G&G G2010 is also a great aeg.

Have to say though maybe its a vanity thing but I still can't stretch far enough to liking the famas even though, I've been shown how with time and patience (a lot of patience) it can be turned into a formidable AEG.

My last comment would be, that if like some of us, the colossal amount of M4 variants just seem to all start to look the same then a bullpup is possibly a more individual direction to go plus the accuracy of this type of AEG is excellent when coupled with a tight bore barrel and a good hop in comparison to some other AEGs

they get my vote...

TheDoc

Even when something comes along like the FN2000 that looks nifty and impressive, cant pull myself to buy one.

I can reload a regular armalite in a silly quick time, bullpups always seem awkward and weird to do a fast reload.

I tend to aslo like holding a spare mag alongside my current to quicken the change even more, something you cant really do with a bullpup.

Practically it is not something I think I'll be looking into more then " oooo that looks nice"

Reloading is a big part of my game and being as fast and efficent as I can is a big thing, picking a rifle that will slow down that process really is a major no no for me.

Inari

I just never really liked them - on an aesthetic level they look gaudy. The only exception to a bullpup-style gun is the P-90, which I like because of it's length. But otherwise, I can't say I'm a fan.

It is entirely based on looks though - I just prefer the look of the more standard rifle

senordingdong

I think they're brilliant for the innovations they bring to RS. but obviously this doesn't carry over to airsoft the same way.
But the weight distribution is definatley a plus.