Phoenix Park Tunnel - Can it be used for a commuter service?

Roryhy

A bit perplexed by the arguments to and fro about this.....does the tunnel have a potential useful commuter traffic purpose? Could some kind of radial northern loop commuter line be created between Heuston and possibly docklands? Interested to hear everbodys opinion, get the crayons out and do up maps to explain your ideas if possible, showing your route, possible new stops, will there be conflicts with traffic in and around Connolly or Broombridge. Look forward to hearing from ye

Bluetonic

Try a search, it's been covered (in detail) before.

Telchak

Roryhy wrote: »

Could some kind of radial northern loop commuter line be created between Heuston and possibly docklands?

The current track alignment doesn't allow for such a service. This would require either a) changing the junction towards the tunnel to a delta so trains from the main Heuston can go directly to the tunnel, or b) building a new station at the current location of the tracks which are a significant distance from the main station.

Roryhy wrote: »

will there be conflicts with traffic in and around Connolly or Broombridge.

Only a little trackwork would be required to make the tunnel line join to the Docklands line.


I don't think there would really be demand for such an orbital route however. Both areas are already connected by Luas. Anywhere else along the line would have quicker connections to the city by bus, instead of doing a loop of the whole Northside inner city =/

Roryhy

Bluetonic wrote: »

Try a search, it's been covered (in detail) before.

I've heard it spoken about, i have listened in detail but i have never seen a plan. Most have spoken of bringing a service into connolly but this cant happen because of a lack of slots. Also possible station locations etc. I just want to know if it CAN happen, its always being dragged up as an issue to counter the interconnector plans and i would just like to know if something practical and useful is possible or not.

I have done up a sketch of a potential route using Heuston platform 10, new station at the zoo, cabra rd, new broombridge station east of current, drumcondra and docklands.

FreudianSlippers

Telchak wrote: »

I don't think there would really be demand for such an orbital route however. Both areas are already connected by Luas. Anywhere else along the line would have quicker connections to the city by bus, instead of doing a loop of the whole Northside inner city =/

I disagree with this somewhat, I think a service from Heuston to Docklands with only 2 stops between that can travel at speeds higher than Luas would be very useful to people who live on that orbital route.
If I lived on or near that orbital route I would certainly take a quick train to Heuston and connect to the Luas rather than take a bus (and IMO the Phoenix Park / Cabra area has poor bus services... i.e. a few buses that go to the same place along effectively the same route (37, 38, 39) and 2 buses that go a different direction but weave through Cabra and it takes ages to get anywhere (121 & 122).
I used to live in that area and I hated taking the bus because it was impossible to get into town where I wanted to go quickly

Telchak

Roryhy wrote: »

I have done up a sketch of a potential route using Heuston platform 10, new station at the zoo, cabra rd, new broombridge station east of current, drumcondra and docklands.

I'd say forget about the one at Liffey Junction (no pint in moving the existing Broombridge station when the Luas is gonna go there), and instead go for one at Phibsborough that would tie in with trains on the Maynooth line I'd also say then forget about the one at Drumcondra and instead go for one at Ballybough Road that would help disperse crowds from Croke Park (:

Roryhy

Telchak wrote: »

I'd say forget about the one at Liffey Junction (no pint in moving the existing Broombridge station when the Luas is gonna go there), and instead go for one at Phibsborough that would tie in with trains on the Maynooth line I'd also say then forget about the one at Drumcondra and instead go for one at Ballybough Road that would help disperse crowds from Croke Park (:

Yeah, sounds good!

Cool Mo D

I think the tunnel should really be used a lot more when the Interconnector is up and running. Electrify the tunnel and run a Heuston platform 10 to Bray service - could have 3 trains per hour Bray Heuston, 3 trains per hour Bray - Maynooth, and keep the current Dunboyne - Docklands services.

This would complement a 3 tph Hazelhatch Malahide and 3 tph Hazelhatch Howth service, so that when the interconnecter launched the core part so f the DART network would have 6 off peak darts per hour (vital for a proper turn-up and go service), and there would be two good transfer points in the network, at Pearse and Heuston.

New stations at the Zoo, Phibsboro and the Cabra road would also be nice.

LeinsterDub

Anyone care to take a stab at how long the end to end journey would be?

DWCommuter

End to end journey from Connolly stn to Islandbridge junct. is 10 mins with a clear run and no stops. Of course IE will tell you that its longer, but it isn't. If you factor in at least 3 stops you're looking at about 17 mins.

DWCommuter

Roryhy wrote: »

I've heard it spoken about, i have listened in detail but i have never seen a plan. Most have spoken of bringing a service into connolly but this cant happen because of a lack of slots. Also possible station locations etc. I just want to know if it CAN happen, its always being dragged up as an issue to counter the interconnector plans and i would just like to know if something practical and useful is possible or not.

I have done up a sketch of a potential route using Heuston platform 10, new station at the zoo, cabra rd, new broombridge station east of current, drumcondra and docklands.

Where will this new "Zoo" Station be and why?

DWCommuter

Cool Mo D wrote: »

I think the tunnel should really be used a lot more when the Interconnector is up and running. Electrify the tunnel and run a Heuston platform 10 to Bray service - could have 3 trains per hour Bray Heuston, 3 trains per hour Bray - Maynooth, and keep the current Dunboyne - Docklands services.

This would complement a 3 tph Hazelhatch Malahide and 3 tph Hazelhatch Howth service, so that when the interconnecter launched the core part so f the DART network would have 6 off peak darts per hour (vital for a proper turn-up and go service), and there would be two good transfer points in the network, at Pearse and Heuston.

New stations at the Zoo, Phibsboro and the Cabra road would also be nice.

You've hit the nail on the head there.

Post interconnector (if we ever build it) there is no credible reason why the PPT line should not be used to service the areas along its route. What always annoyed me was its complete absence in post Interconnector plans when all the original "problems" had been eradicated. But that in itself is a more telling tale.

In the interim, it should be re-evaluated, considering the dire financial circumstances that the country faces. Unless of course the state wants to return to its usual recession attitude of investing absolutely nothing in rail transport unless a local TD is depending on it for votes.

Roryhy

DWCommuter wrote: »

Where will this new "Zoo" Station be and why?

I'd locate it pretty much at the North Circular Rd. entrance to the park, corner of North Rd. and Fountain Rd. Why?......because a commuter service is about getting people where they want to go. The zoo and the park in general are major destinations for tourists and locals alike. The station built i wouldn't imagine being very difficult, the tunnel is quite shallow so the area could be excavated, station built and filled back in quite rapidly id imagine.

dowlingm

A station under the park would probably have to be open cut for ventilation reasons.

flazio

It would certainly help people going to Croke Park, especially as I'm presuming this is using the line on the canal end if they built a station under Croke Park.

FredFunk

To make it simple and workable in a short time then they should concentrate on getting trains from Hazelhatch to Docklands. After the Parkwest the train should head through the tunnel and forget Heuston.
What would have to be done? Well the X junction between Drumcondra and Broombridge would have to upgraded to allow trains from the tunnel line to cross over to the Docklands line. I don't think this possible at present. Also this would allow the building of a Croke Park station serving both Maynooth and Hazelhatch lines which could open on match days.

Bluetonic

I can't see a Croke Park station ever getting planning permission. The queuing for the platforms would lead to massive congestion within and around the stadium on the already congested Jones's Rd and Russell St. Connolly is 10 mins walk, with Metro North 5 minutes.

There simply isn't the correct space due to the lines proximity to the stadium. People who don't want to use the station would be heavily disrupted by those who do, and visa versa. It would be a bad version of the already bad Lansdowne Rd.

dowlingm

The Docklands temporary PP would probably have to be upgraded, right? Probably another platform or two as well.

SeanW

FredFunk wrote: »

To make it simple and workable in a short time then they should concentrate on getting trains from Hazelhatch to Docklands. After the Parkwest the train should head through the tunnel and forget Heuston.
What would have to be done? Well the X junction between Drumcondra and Broombridge would have to upgraded to allow trains from the tunnel line to cross over to the Docklands line. I don't think this possible at present. Also this would allow the building of a Croke Park station serving both Maynooth and Hazelhatch lines which could open on match days.

The problem with upgrading Glasnevin Junction is that if you retooled it to allow Heuston network trains onto the Midland line, that would cause a conflict (train paths crossing at grade) between Heuston-Connolly/Docks trains and Sligo/Maynooth-Connolly trains. This would limit the capacity of both.

The thing to do would have been to build the Docklands station in a proper place where it would have had access to both the Drumcondra and Midland lines. But then again this is CIE we're talking about ...

Carawaystick

But there's already a Phoenix park station. Isnt' this station on the line that goes through the phoenix park???


Oh it is across a dual carriageway from where there used to be a horse track that was across a road form the phoenix park - tis all clear now.

FreudianSlippers

Carawaystick wrote: »

But there's already a Phoenix park station. Isnt' this station on the line that goes through the phoenix park???


Oh it is across a dual carriageway from where there used to be a horse track that was across a road form the phoenix park - tis all clear now.

Exactly... to even call this the Phoenix Park station is ridiculous.

paulm17781

flazio wrote: »

It would certainly help people going to Croke Park, especially as I'm presuming this is using the line on the canal end if they built a station under Croke Park.

Maynooth trains can get there now.