Pumping cavity of new build

fiestaman

Hi, what are people going for at the moment? Bonded bead?? Foam??
Ive a 100mm cavity on a new build and will need to be done in a couple of weeks,woundering whats the most popular choice.

bbam

Ther are many opinions on this, we personally went with the bonded beads and are very happy indeed...

What I would say is that the installation methods of these has a huge impact on their performance. There is a certified method of installation, you can check this online and then when it's being done ensure you're installers are doing it correctly...

Here's an example of what I mean, (not a product recomendation)
http://www.nsai.ie/NSAI/files/c6/c67fe3d5-ae14-4e45-bbbf-bb78c9de57d8.pdf

dathi

bonded bead, foam doesnt have an agrement cert for cavity walls

beyondpassive

Fiestaman, 100mm of bonded bead wont let you comply with Part L 2008, but more crucially your home wont retain sufficient head to keep any sort of heat in your inner leaf. Can you widen the leaf to 150mm or use AAC block in the inner leaf.

How are you demonstrating compliance with Part L?

Poor Uncle Tom

fiestaman wrote: »

Hi, what are people going for at the moment? Bonded bead?? Foam??
Ive a 100mm cavity on a new build and will need to be done in a couple of weeks,woundering whats the most popular choice.

What stage is your build currently at?

fiestaman

dont know what part L is. my planning was recieved in mid 2008, says noting about regulations. i have 6 rowes of blocks up all round with 100mm cavity.

Poor Uncle Tom

fiestaman wrote: »

dont know what part L is. my planning was recieved in mid 2008, says noting about regulations. i have 6 rowes of blocks up all round with 100mm cavity.

If you haven't done so already, you need to sit down with an energy assesor and decide what level of insulations are needed to reach the minimum required under the regulations, and then decide what level is appropriate for your house.

fiestaman

Mod Edit: <No company links please>

Says here that bonded bead will have rating of .27 with 12mm slab. im putting up the 25mm insulated slab which is 37mm on all external walls.

beyondpassive

fiestaman wrote: »

Mod Edit: <No company links please>

Says here that bonded bead will have rating of .27 with 12mm slab. im putting up the 25mm insulated slab which is 37mm on all external walls.

So you are drylining with composite board?
0.27 is the backstop U-Value, which is the lowest allowable performance level of any element, however you must also show that your building is 40% better than a notional building built in 2005 to minimum standards. So you U-Value for the walls might well need to be about 0.22 kWh/m2.

Its crazy to bull ahead with building without properly considering how you can minimise the wastage of heat energy, through sensible measures such as enhanced insulation, airtightness and cold bridge elimination. This is particularly important in an era of rapidly rising oil and gas prices.

fiestaman

right so even if i went with 60mm quinntherm id only get .25 and that wouldnt be enough either then?

who do i show that my building is 40% better??

beyondpassive

Houses are required to have a certificates of compliance with building regulations and planning. Architects and engineers issue opinions of compliance through their professional bodies and are indemnified in doing so through their professional Indemnity insurance.

While this a building contol function of local authority, the institute of Architects and Engineers Ireland have a self certification arrangement, where they assess compliance.

In order to assess compliance, site investigation reports, agrément certs for products, commissioning certs from plumber and electrician and the calculations from DEAP Part L compliance report are required. These are important legal documents and form part of the property deeds. They are needed for drawing down final loan/mortgage amounts, for conveyancing (selling the gaf) and for insuring the house. Some banks accept opinions on compliance from surveyors or Architectural technologists who are members of a professional body.

I'm curios fietaman, have you had any professional input on your project? For starters, has your engineer inspected your foundation reinforcement and pour?

fiestaman

Of course he has inspected foundation and the floor before it was poured to check radon barrier and insulation. pumped insulation has a cert the same as quinntherm which comply with the building regs. i know of 8 people from different parts of the country that pumped there walls with bead, 100mm cavity and there engineer had no problem. why is it advised if its not up to standard.

beyondpassive

fiestaman wrote: »

i know of 8 people from different parts of the country that pumped there walls with bead, 100mm cavity and there engineer had no problem. why is it advised if its not up to standard.

Why would a structural engineer concern himself with insulation? how are you complying with Part L?

fiestaman

beyondpassive wrote: »

Why would a structural engineer concern himself with insulation? how are you complying with Part L?

Well hes the one who has to sign off the stages for money draw down so he has to be happy i have insulation. As for part L, i havent a clue, all i know is the house will be insulated. 100mm of bead with 1" slab is plenty gives rate of .23. xtratherm rep and kingspan rep told me that. you can talk about airtightness and cold bridgeing all day but when you open a door or window what happens?? .27 is an acceptable figure so if thats achieved then im happy and if it will be lower with the insulated board then better again. i know houses built in 2004 2005 with board in the wall and there houses are super warm and burn little fuel.

LoTwan

Have you talked to a BER assessor? Did you get a prelim assessment before you started building? From what I know, which is quite a small amount, if you are not actively complying with part L then you are more than likely not complying with it. If you haven't complied then you will have a lot of problems when it comes to your final mortgage draw down when they look for a BER on the house and compliance with all the regs, including Part L.

bbam

Hi.. I'm no expert but I did get professional help from a friend in the business when we were building 2 years ago.. the fact that you physically install insulation is not going to guarentee a good result, the best product installed poorly will not be effective..
The advice I was given was to pay particular attention to coldbridges and potential coldbridges, simple things like ensuring the blocklayer washes down the wall ties if mortar has fallen on them would be an example.. Airtightness of the insulating layer is important, a small imperfection will be exagerated when there is a 40mph wing blowing against the surface area of a gable wall, it will blow in and bring in cold air if space is left..

Take your time and do these things well and they will serve you well in the future.

If you're not sure what the requirments for Part L or any others I would recommend you get a current Homebond manual and go through it in detail..

kat_08

beyondpassive wrote: »

Why would a structural engineer concern himself with insulation? how are you complying with Part L?

Sorry for butting in here, we are going to start our house building after xmas, we are thinking of going direct labour and using pumped cavity insulation with an xthraterm insulated slab on the exterior walls. 100mm cavity is on our house plans just curious what is this part L thing, seems serious. How do i go about complying and who do i have to prove to that i am complying with regulations.

bbam

Again... Get yourself a Homebond House Building Manual, 6th edition I think is the current recent version.. It will detail what all parts of the building regulations are and show details on how they can be acheived, best methods etc.. It won't turn you into an expert but it will help you know somewhat what you are talking about.

It is an essential €50 spend on any self build and I cannot understand how anybody could selfbuild without it..

http://www.homebond.ie/house_building_manual.html

Poor Uncle Tom

kat_08 wrote: »

Sorry for butting in here, we are going to start our house building after xmas, we are thinking of going direct labour and using pumped cavity insulation with an xthraterm insulated slab on the exterior walls. 100mm cavity is on our house plans just curious what is this part L thing, seems serious.

These are the Technical Guidance Documents and Part L is to do with energy conservation. It is a requirement of the Building Regulations that account is taken of the TGD's when designing and building a house.

kat_08 wrote: »

How do i go about complying

The person who designed your house must take account of the Building Regulations when designing the house. There is also an onus on the building owner to comply with the Building Regulations, which means you should get an indemnified energy assesor to evaluate your design and advise as to how best to comply with the regulations, regarding insulations and energy conservation as well as fulfilling your obligation to incorporate the use of renewables in the build.

kat_08 wrote: »

and who do i have to prove to that i am complying with regulations.

You may be asked to prove it to the Building Control Officer if they ever visit your site, you will most likely be asked by whoever carries out the Certificate of Compliance with Building Regulations at the end of the build for inclusion in the documentation for registering title of the property, and you will most definitely be asked by the solicitors for any buyers if you ever go to sell the house.

Poor Uncle Tom

bbam wrote: »

Again... Get yourself a Homebond House Building Manual, 6th edition I think is the current recent version.. It will detail what all parts of the building regulations are and show details on how they can be acheived, best methods etc.. It won't turn you into an expert but it will help you know somewhat what you are talking about.

It is an essential €50 spend on any self build and I cannot understand how anybody could selfbuild without it..

http://www.homebond.ie/house_building_manual.html

You should be working for them......:D

beyondpassive

Is homebond updated for the 2008 Part L?