Discipline and Running

village runner

Discipline and been the best that you can. What are you prepared to forgo in hte bid to achieve your best time possible ??
We all want to run a fast one but are we all prepared/disciplined to do so....
I would like to hear a few stories re discipline. For example would one forgo all goodies for hte last month before DCM ?

tunguska

village runner wrote: »

Discipline and been the best that you can. What are you prepared to forgo in hte bid to achieve your best time possible ??
We all want to run a fast one but are we all prepared/disciplined to do so....
I would like to hear a few stories re discipline. For example would one forgo all goodies for hte last month before DCM ?

It depends on what you mean by Goodies VR. If we're talking about your good self then the list of banned substances would be varied and long.(Ciggies, booze, junk food, porrige:)). The smokes are an obvious one but personally I think boozing in the weeks leading up to a marathon is asking for trouble. Or at the very least selling yourself short. No booze within a month before a marathon is a very good idea.
In regards to the junk food, I think so long as its not greasy or loaded up with saturated fat, youre ok. So chipper food and pizzas are a no no. Simply from the point of view that they mess about with your digestive system something fierce. If you dont wanna be making a run for a bush at mile 16, stay away from the greasy food.
But I think booze and ciggies are the big ones to avoid.

village runner

This is general. Lets say your goal race was in 8 weeks. What would one put themselves through for the 8 weeks re diet wise, drink etc.
Everyone wants to achieve the best time they can. So what is one prepared to give up. Is is the weekly chinese or a ban on booze...

donothoponpop

The big one for me is booze. I'm not a huge binge drinker, but drink a little wine, often. I'm doing without for the final four weeks, (but have had one relapse). It will make a difference weight wise, as I'm also replacing crispy snacks with Ryvita and other salted cardboard. Every dropped Kg is worth two minutes, or so I'v been told. Small sacrifice if it gets me the sub 3.

But the biggest discipline has been toughing out all the tough runs. There's been a pain barrier that has needed to be breached in each, that took the most discipline.

devotional1993

Everything in moderation is fine.Cutting out everything including the odd pint is a bit ott a month before the marathon. Its important to have the odd reward after hard training and there is no beating a pint of Guinness and a toasted sambo after a 20miler!

louthandproud

I was reading this thread yesterday about an hour after a 20 miler and with a beer in my hand, got me thinking.

What's the problem with booze and running? Will a few beers, glasses of wine etc. do any harm? I can see how too much can in lots of ways obviously, but are there negatives in having a few, bar the calories involved and lack of nutrition?

RoyMcC

It's an interesting question all right, and it goes right to the heart of the debate as to the decline in standards in distance running - in the western world - over the last 30 or so years.

The truth is that only the most dedicated person will give everything they've got in pursuit of running excellence. Those that do are a dying breed and are not necessarily the ones with the most talent. The age we live in has too many comforts and most runners will avail of at least a few which deny them the last few % of achieving their potential. I wonder if the elite runners on this board, and the high-mileage guys, would claim that there isn't more that they could do?

Times past there were fewer comforts and - the crucial factor - diets were healthier. Take away the comforts, go back to basic, healthy diets (like, say, the Rift Valley runners or Paula Radcliffe) and then see the difference it makes.

A debate that goes well beyond running though.

devotional1993

look, I have no probs with the top lads living like priests,but really come on its truely laughable the mid packers doing the same. Life is for living,have your beer or your take away. It really wont matter in the end as long as its not every night. :(DONT BE A RUNNING BORE!

--amadeus--

On phone so apologies for spelling, etc...

First up alcohol has a bundle of issues. Empty calories are a start and hangovers causing missed runs are another. Also heavy beer sessions (for me anyway) involve late nights & fast food...

Above & beyond that alcohol puts strain on your liver & changes the manner that it metabolises carbs, fewer carbs = less fuel = impaired performance.

No one is saying live like a priest (and that's not much of a recommendation IMO) but make the right choices if you want max performance. At the end of the day all of us are midpackers in mara terms so do you want to run as fast as you can or not?

ecoli

devotional1993 wrote: »

look, I have no probs with the top lads living like priests,but really come on its truely laughable the mid packers doing the same. Life is for living,have your beer or your take away. It really wont matter in the end as long as its not every night. :(DONT BE A RUNNING BORE!

I say if they are happy to do that let them live their own life. Personally i am happy in striving to improve myself. Over the last while i have tried to get my nutrition as healthy as possible do my supplementary training which i ignored. The fact is i like running I know i am not gonna become a world beater but i still want to strive to improve myself this is a sport of man vs himself. Why would a person who is training to improve themselves do something to damage that for the sake of it.

Would shouldnt change their life style dramatically coming up to big race the ideal situation would be to be consitently trying to tackle these problems that way it not such a shock once the races draw closer.

And believe it or not Elites arent all "priestly" they humans who enjoy their drinks and takeaways just as much as the next having been out with sub 4 milers+ sub 30 10k guys who love CAN party (including Kenyans

devotional1993

The problem in Ireland is people cant seem to have a pint or two,it always seems like a binge drinking session or nothing. Personally I like a pint of Guinness or a red wine every night with my dinner or after training. No hangovers, no dehydration.

--amadeus--

devotional1993 wrote: »

The problem in Ireland is people cant seem to have a pint or two,it always seems like a binge drinking session or nothing. Personally I like a pint of Guinness or a red wine every night with my dinner or after training. No hangovers, no dehydration.

But constant demands on your liver to metabolise alcohol rather than process carbs into glycogen.

devotional1993

--amadeus-- wrote: »

But constant demands on your liver to metabolise alcohol rather than process carbs into glycogen.

Well,they say its good for your heart a drink a night ...I suppose if your happy living a balanced life thats fine. If your happy living a life without a drink,take away or cream bun thats fine too. Everyone to themselves. Personally I prefer the former and still run well. My idea of hell is living with a running bore drinking 7up to run a 40min 10k.

ecoli

devotional1993 wrote: »

Well,they say its good for your heart a drink a night ...I suppose if your happy living a balanced life thats fine. If your happy living a life without a drink,take away or cream bun thats fine too. Everyone to themselves. Personally I prefer the former and still run well. My idea of hell is living with a running bore drinking 7up to run a 40min 10k.

There is conflicting research which seems to change like the weather regarding this

Why do they have to be "bores" i know some of the lads that i head out with who dont drink and you wouldnt be able to tell they werent drinking they are mad and the life and soul of the party.

devotional1993

ecoli wrote: »

There is conflicting research which seems to change like the weather regarding this

Why do they have to be "bores" i know some of the lads that i head out with who dont drink and you wouldnt be able to tell they werent drinking they are mad and the life and soul of the party.

People tend to make that up in their heads when the reality is drunks find sober people boring and sober people find drunks boring! That will never change.

ecoli

devotional1993 wrote: »

People tend to make that up in their heads when the reality is drunks find sober people boring and sober people find drunks boring! That will never change.

I dont think that is true i just think this is just a difference of opinion. I have grown up through athletics surrounded by completely focused non drinkers to runners with the philosphy of train hard party hard so i think most of these people tolerate both sides of the coin and even non athlete friends never seem to judge and can have a laugh with regardless of drinking or not

We shall agree to disagree:D

devotional1993

No we wont, we will have a 100mt sprint to decide the matter! you ready?:o

ecoli

devotional1993 wrote: »

No we wont, we will have a 100mt sprint to decide the matter! you ready?:o

I cant its not conducive to my training i have to stay strictly to my training plan as rigidly as my diet;)

devotional1993

ecoli wrote: »

I cant its not conducive to my training i have to stay strictly to my training plan as rigidly as my diet;)

cool im going down the local-lots of empty carbs then i'll tale ya;)

bart simpson

does beer have no nutrients? id say it does, sure when ya think about it its pure carb juice with a bit of alcohol too...and if ye try and tell me any different im not listening! la la la la la la la:D
http://beer.about.com/od/beernutrition/a/beernutrition.htm

earnyourturns

The night before the Dunedin Marathon my friend had a glass or two of red wine to calm her nerves, ran 3 hrs 30 the next morning...

ronanmac

My contribution to discipline and running was to give up booze for 2010, more as a "see if I can" challenge rather than purely related to running, but a significant factor was to make sure I wouldn't have an easy excuse on the weekends to opt out of training. Unfortunately, my dedication to giving up alcohol has surpassed my dedication to training, and while I haven't touched a drop all year, my training wasn't all it could be.

That said, it's been my best year of training and racing, so presumably the no-alcohol has been a significant factor. As for next year, I'm not sure what to do. I don't intend to go another year with no beer (I woke up one night recently thinking of a pint of Guinness ), but I will put some limiter in place. Something like 72 drinks over the year?

Gringo78

I cut back on the drink in 2010 in a big way.....has made dropping weight a lot easier...due to work etc haven't been able to train as much as I would like but I can control the diet so trying to be disciplined now so the weight is right when I ramp up the training. I knew I'd be cutting down on the miles after marathon so instead of putting on the usual half a stone I dropped a stone instead. I think you should enjoy marathon training food wise, not be starving yourself especially after the tough LSRs so maybe better to be disciplined the rest of the year and hit race weight or below before starting into the higher mileage more. One less thing to worry about then.

Bez Bing

After reading this thread I'm dying for a drink and its only 10:52 on a Monday!
Anyone know an early house??

Magnet

here are the beer facts...

http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/beverages/8005/2

compare to juice

http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/beverages/3959/2

Gringo78

Magnet wrote: »

here are the beer facts...

http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/beverages/8005/2

compare to juice

http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/beverages/3959/2

About similar but I suppose the difference is people might consider drinking a litre carton of orange juice a bit much whereas 4 pints of beer might be considered moderation. The calories rack up fast

kennyb3

Gringo78 wrote: »

About similar but I suppose the difference is people might consider drinking a litre carton of orange juice a bit much whereas 4 pints of beer might be considered moderation. The calories rack up fast

Yep, then add the lack of motivation, dehydration and junk food that generally comes along with beer.

I still drink a good bit myself, although not as much as before, for me its all about balance but its different for everyone. It's a personal choice - nobody is right or wrong.

dizzymom

for my first DCM I cut out booze n junk 2months before hand, (ya it was extreme)

more recently in the 4 weeks coming up to the marathon, i start taking gluosamine chlordrintin, spirulina, and cut out the crap, a bit of healthy food combining, plenty of sleep, try to go to be half an hour earlier the week of the race, bank the sleep as i get a ball of nerves da nite before - just generally mind myself. everything in moderation

Ruu_Old

Lucky enough, my only vice is the odd Snickers bar here and there, I would feel disgusted with myself sometimes if I had something that I shouldn't. I don't drink, smoke or go to pubs/clubs and eat 90% clean so everything is pretty much a routine for me. Up at 4:30am every second day, do an hour and a half workout and then off I go just before it gets light out. I hit my final sprint just as the sun comes up. I "sleep in" until around 5:30 or 6 the other mornings so I look forward to that sometimes.

Jnealon

Just got my issue of Irish Runner and Brendan O'Shea has an article on marathon dos and don't s. One of the dos is carb loading which sounds easy enough but where the discipline comes in is the carb depletion.
The carb depletion starts tomorrow and runs until Friday, anyone going to do this and how much carbs are you allowed to take per day, 30g??.
I'll give it a go but I am not looking forward going on past experience

tunguska

Jnealon wrote: »

Just got my issue of Irish Runner and Brendan O'Shea has an article on marathon dos and don't s. One of the dos is carb loading which sounds easy enough but where the discipline comes in is the carb depletion.
The carb depletion starts tomorrow and runs until Friday, anyone going to do this and how much carbs are you allowed to take per day, 30g??.
I'll give it a go but I am not looking forward going on past experience

Far be it from me to question Brendan O shea but carb depletion is a risky business. In P&D they recommend you cut your training load in the last week but at the same time crank up the carb comsuption. Less risky than depletion.

Jnealon

Just had a quick read of P&D and from what they say carb depletion is an old school approach which doesn't have many benefits and one of the major down side is that your immune system weakens.
With the amount of people sniffling and sneezing this week you run a risk of catching something

tunguska

Jnealon wrote: »

Just had a quick read of P&D and from what they say carb depletion is an old school approach which doesn't have many benefits and one of the major down side is that your immune system weakens.
With the amount of people sniffling and sneezing this week you run a risk of catching something

Id stick with P&D on this one Jnealon, too risky the other way, anything could happen.

--amadeus--

I'm half way through "Endurance Sports Nutrition" at the moment and they talk about carb depletion. Pete Pfitzer is interviewed in it & he says that he used to hate the depletion phase and that in his plans the Wednesday run in the week before the race (in the plan I followed it's an 8 with 2 @ PMP) is supposed to trigger a "mini depletion", the quick miles using some of teh stored glycogen and getting your muscles ready for teh loading to follow as well as having a psychological advantage that the runner has done everything they could.

heffsarmy

I'm going to give the carb depletion a go myself, going to restrict the card intake too around 15g per day. Started this morning with a healthy fri up. Just want to see if it works for myself.

TFBubendorfer

--amadeus-- wrote: »

I'm half way through "Endurance Sports Nutrition" at the moment and they talk about carb depletion. Pete Pfitzer is interviewed in it & he says that he used to hate the depletion phase and that in his plans the Wednesday run in the week before the race (in the plan I followed it's an 8 with 2 @ PMP) is supposed to trigger a "mini depletion", the quick miles using some of teh stored glycogen and getting your muscles ready for teh loading to follow as well as having a psychological advantage that the runner has done everything they could.

My new coach recommended something similar. On Thursday run what he calls a taper workout, namely 4 miles at about MP, 15 minutes easy, then 3x800 at 10 k pace, plus warm up and cool down, of course. That's supposed to trigger a mini depletion. If you want to enhance that, restrict carbs for that day.

Then on Friday start eating extra carbs, including simple ones - add sugar, honey, fruit juice, sports drink or whatever you fancy to your normal meal intake.