anti-gang law

liamwhite

what difference will it make on Irish crime in Irealnd, at the minute Irealnd is a bloodbath, will ireland ever be the way it was? less killings and gun crime and less gang activity? Now with the new laws?

Bosco boy

Theres a vacancy at the Sunday World that might suit you!:D

FreudianSlippers

To be honest, I think the Gardaí are doing the best job they can at the moment. But unfortunately it's not enough. I go on circuit often, but usually not on crime and recently I went on circuit doing a criminal case and the amount of gang crimes that are happening in this country is amazing.

For me arming the Gardaí or at least some special unit of the Gardaí is the only real way of combating these thugs

johnnyskeleton

OisinT wrote: »

To be honest, I think the Gardaí are doing the best job they can at the moment. But unfortunately it's not enough. I go on circuit often, but usually not on crime and recently I went on circuit doing a criminal case and the amount of gang crimes that are happening in this country is amazing.

Not really. Certainly, there are very few gangs that the DPP has been satisfied should be prosecuted. Also, relative to other countries Ireland is fairly safe.

OisinT wrote: »

For me arming the Gardaí or at least some special unit of the Gardaí is the only real way of combating these thugs

Special branches and ERUs are armed. Arming every garda is not such a good idea, especially the newer recruits.

Gardai should be armed 1) where there is a clear need and 2) when they have been given special and rigourous training in how to use a weapon.

Even then, they are armed to protect themselves and members of the public and not for any other reason.

Arming the gardai as a way of "combating these thugs" is a very dangerous, if popular, slogan.

liamwhite

Bosco boy wrote: »

Theres a vacancy at the Sunday World that might suit you!:D

Lol i just read my question back the spelling was a disaster. Yes i believe you are right, they are looking for somebody to take over paul williams very poor wording, i think i might fit the part

liamwhite

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

Not really. Certainly, there are very few gangs that the DPP has been satisfied should be prosecuted. Also, relative to other countries Ireland is fairly safe.



Special branches and ERUs are armed. Arming every garda is not such a good idea, especially the newer recruits.

Gardai should be armed 1) where there is a clear need and 2) when they have been given special and rigourous training in how to use a weapon.

Even then, they are armed to protect themselves and members of the public and not for any other reason.

Arming the gardai as a way of "combating these thugs" is a very dangerous, if popular, slogan.

Good point there, but it wasn't long ago that Ireland was a safer place, were guns were very uncommon and shootings were major news, now they are typical news. The criminals today are vicious and full of hate and care more for the **** on there shoe than they do for any life weather its man woman or child.
Compare them to criminals form the 80's/90's, back then gangs were in it for the money, today these lunatics are in it for the ego and the fear, They orgasm off fear and the sheer thrill of somebody afraid of there life of them is just pure ecstasy to them. Its when somebody steps on there toes and disturbs this fantasy on them that they get aggressive and ultra violent. Years ago it was not like that, people were in it simply for the money as a means to survive simple as.
Ireland today is a dark place, not only are we living under a government that are just making complete fools out of the Irish nation but we are walking outside our doors now afraid of our lives to slip up on the road (we might get hit with a bat) look crooked at the wrong 15 year old ( we might get stabbed) live next door to the wrong person (our house might get shot at) dont get me wrong i fully understand that there is countries with a lot of worse problems but it was only a matter of years ago that you would actually feel safe in Ireland, but not anymore its gone vicious. Maybe im just paranoid and blowing it all up more than what it realy is, maybe im listening to mr Williams and missus Tallant exadurate and hype it all up a bit too much, maybe im reading into it too much and letting my mind run away with me, but thats how i feel.

I will be pure honest i was no angel myself certainly not but one thing i will say proudly is that i am no way a violent person for no reason at all or for silly reasons and i never had been and i despise drugs and always have i wouldn't piss on a drug dealer if he was on fire!, i live life now because i finally realised that life is for living, money and cars and tv's don't matter, money matters for the things you need, the things that really matter is just living out life irself and sending it with the ones you love, of course money matters but not to the extent were we have to have it to buy things that Mary next door has not got!

detective

liamwhite wrote: »

what difference will it make on Irish crime in Irealnd, at the minute Irealnd is a bloodbath, will ireland ever be the way it was? less killings and gun crime and less gang activity? Now with the new laws?

It will seriously disrupt Irish criminal gangs as it's amazingly tough legislation. It's so tough in fact that it may not survive it's first real test when it's appealed to the High and Supreme courts on points of law and constitutionality.

Ireland will never be the way it was, not a hope.

MagicSean

OisinT wrote: »

To be honest, I think the Gardaí are doing the best job they can at the moment. But unfortunately it's not enough. I go on circuit often, but usually not on crime and recently I went on circuit doing a criminal case and the amount of gang crimes that are happening in this country is amazing.

For me arming the Gardaí or at least some special unit of the Gardaí is the only real way of combating these thugs

We dont need guns. We need more gardaí and bigger prisons. I have yet to be in a position were I would have preferred to have a gun over some backup.

spudington16

k_mac wrote: »

We dont need guns. We need more gardaí and bigger prisons.

I am in full agreement with you that we do not need guns, but I dispute your argument about bigger prisons.

Crime is a symptom of deeper societal problems and creating more prison spaces with a view to locking more people up is a case of treating the symptom and not the root cause of the problem.

Obviously prison over-crowding is a very real problem, but I'm sure there are plenty of inmates who would be better suited to a drug-rehabilitation facility than a prison. Surely this would free up spaces, as well as turning out more ex-prisoners without a drug addiction who would probably end up inside again?

MagicSean

spudington16 wrote: »

I am in full agreement with you that we do not need guns, but I dispute your argument about bigger prisons.

Crime is a symptom of deeper societal problems and creating more prison spaces with a view to locking more people up is a case of treating the symptom and not the root cause of the problem.

Obviously prison over-crowding is a very real problem, but I'm sure there are plenty of inmates who would be better suited to a drug-rehabilitation facility than a prison. Surely this would free up spaces, as well as turning out more ex-prisoners without a drug addiction who would probably end up inside again?

Thats all well and good in the long term. But at the moment it is sickening to work like a dog to get a conviction only to see the person walking around the street a few weeks later because the prisons are full and he is considered "low risk". I've seen some woeful crimes committed by people on temporary release.

cushtac

spudington16 wrote: »

Obviously prison over-crowding is a very real problem, but I'm sure there are plenty of inmates who would be better suited to a drug-rehabilitation facility than a prison. Surely this would free up spaces, as well as turning out more ex-prisoners without a drug addiction who would probably end up inside again?

You're assuming that drug addiction is the only reason people are re-offending.

liamwhite

liamwhite wrote: »

Good point there, but it wasn't long ago that Ireland was a safer place, were guns were very uncommon and shootings were major news, now they are typical news. The criminals today are vicious and full of hate and care more for the **** on there shoe than they do for any life weather its man woman or child.

1900's man "Jesus things are far worse these days than they used to be when I was a lad and all we had were the Penal laws and rack rents. Now the Land League, boycotts, people being kicked out of house and home"

1910's man: "Jesus things are far worse now than in the 1900's, what with the World War, the Spanish Flu, the War of Independence... Back in the 1900's it was so much better."

1920's man: "Jesus things are far worse now than in the 1910's, what with the stock market crash, Weimar Germany, the Civil War... Back in the 1910's it was so much better"

1930's man: "Jesus things are far worse now than the 1920's. What with Hitler starting his war, the Economic War between Ireland and England, the Great Depression... Back in the 1920's it was so much better"

1940's man: "Jesus things are far worse now than in the 1940's. What with the Second World War, the Red Scare, the food rationing in Ireland after we declared a Republic and England went bat-****ing-crazy as a result...Back in the 1930's it was so much better"

1950's man: Things were better in the 50's. Solid decade to be fair. Nuclear terror aside.

1960's man: "Jesus things are far worse now than the 50's. What with the Cuban Missile Crisis, economic stagnation, massive emigration and the disenfranchisement of the Nationalist population of Northern Ireland leading to an Apartheid State...Back in the 50's it was so much better"

1970's man: "Jesus things are far worse now than the 60's. What with the rise of the IRA, massive increases in violence and terror in the North and the fear and hatred with which Irish people are treated in England...Back in the 60's it was so much better"

1980's man: "Jesus things are far worse now than the 70's. What with the provos really getting stuck into each other, Belfast being a warzone, heroin ravaging Dublin, Cork and Limerick...Back in the 70's it was so much better"

1990's man: "Jesus things are far worse now than the 80's. What with the rise of serious organised crime, the increase in murders, the near constant robberies by the IRA and assassinations/kidnappings...Back in the 80's it was so much better"

2000's man: "Jesus things are far worse now than the 90's. What with the rise in gun deaths, the increase in violent crime and the materialism that is ruining Ireland these days...Back in the 90's things were so much better."

2010's man: Please see OP for details.

Zambia

k_mac wrote: »

We dont need guns. We need more gardaí and bigger prisons. I have yet to be in a position were I would have preferred to have a gun over some backup.

I would agree with Kmac. Surely the pot is full you dump more criminals in there it results in ones coming over the sides.

This overflow is then cleaned up by Gardai and dumped in the pot (prison system) whch results in an over the side effect again. All this processing surley must have a cost.

Unless you have the investment in gardai/courts and prisons. The cycle continues and costs you (and the public) anyway.

Whats the piont in making more things illegal when the prison system cant handle the current amount of inmates. Not forgetting the criminal gang has to perform a criminal act to be a criminal gang so there is already something to arrest them for.

spudington with respect people who are impisoned have commited a crime , they are not locked up because they are on drugs. Being on drugs just like being drunk is a poor defence for criminal behavior the person knows even when "on something" what they are doing is wrong. The two essential elements are still there Guilty act, guilty mind.

liamwhite

Zambia232 wrote: »

I would agree with Kmac. Surely the pot is full you dump more criminals in there it results in ones coming over the sides.

This overflow is then cleaned up by Gardai and dumped in the pot (prison system) whch results in an over the side effect again. All this processing surley must have a cost.

Unless you have the investment in gardai/courts and prisons. The cycle continues and costs you (and the public) anyway.

Whats the piont in making more things illegal when the prison system cant handle the current amount of inmates. Not forgetting the criminal gang has to perform a criminal act to be a criminal gang so there is already something to arrest them for.

spudington with respect people who are impisoned have commited a crime , they are not locked up because they are on drugs. Being on drugs just like being drunk is a poor defence for criminal behavior the person knows even when "on something" what they are doing is wrong. The two essential elements are still there Guilty act, guilty mind.

But why not keep the prisons for murders, rapists and serious crime ect only and keep the very petty criminals and people with unpaid parking tickets ect out of the jails... use different ways of punishment for the petty criminals, whats happening today is that the prisons are so full they are letting serious criminals on bail to commit more crimes or flee... if they kept prisons for those who commit serious crimes only and for those petty criminals that do not obide by the penalty handed over to them first you would see huge vaccum in the space in prisons and the petty criminals being punished in other ways... dont attack me its only a view

MagicSean

liamwhite wrote: »

But why not keep the prisons for murders, rapists and serious crime ect only and keep the very petty criminals and people with unpaid parking tickets ect out of the jails... use different ways of punishment for the petty criminals, whats happening today is that the prisons are so full they are letting serious criminals on bail to commit more crimes or flee... if they kept prisons for those who commit serious crimes only and for those petty criminals that do not obide by the penalty handed over to them first you would see huge vaccum in the space in prisons and the petty criminals being punished in other ways... dont attack me its only a view

Thats already how it works. The prisons are filled with people who wont pay fines or do community service or liase with probation services.

johnnyskeleton

liamwhite wrote: »

But why not keep the prisons for murders, rapists and serious crime ect only and keep the very petty criminals and people with unpaid parking tickets ect out of the jails... use different ways of punishment for the petty criminals, whats happening today is that the prisons are so full they are letting serious criminals on bail to commit more crimes or flee... if they kept prisons for those who commit serious crimes only and for those petty criminals that do not obide by the penalty handed over to them first you would see huge vaccum in the space in prisons and the petty criminals being punished in other ways... dont attack me its only a view

The idea that we have prisons full of people whose only crime is not to pay their tv licence while rapists and murderers walk the streets is a popular one at the moment, but I'm not sure it is true.

I'd agree we should look into alternative methods of enforcing fines such as garnishing income/sw or by distress rather than imprisonment, but ultimately the sanction has to be there for people who refuse to pay fines and/or repeatedly commit the same minor offence and refuse to change their behaviour.

On the other hand, what to some judges appear to be minor offences such as drunken or dangerous driving, to others these are serious as drink/dangerous driving generally can lead to numerous road deaths.

One very simple way of reducing the pressure on prisons which could be done overnight is to put illegal immigrants who are awaiting deportation into a monitored (but minimum security) hostel where they cannot easily leave but which does not require anywhere near the cost of prison places.

It's a pretty ghastly situation where someone who has arrived in the state on a visa but is refused permission to land is put in a maximum security prison, even worse that it costs so much to keep people in these places when they could fairly easily convert a hostel/hotel so that it is secure and they can't easily leave.

johnnyskeleton

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

The idea that we have prisons full of people whose only crime is not to pay their tv licence while rapists and murderers walk the streets is a popular one at the moment, but I'm not sure it is true.

I'd agree we should look into alternative methods of enforcing fines such as garnishing income/sw or by distress rather than imprisonment, but ultimately the sanction has to be there for people who refuse to pay fines and/or repeatedly commit the same minor offence and refuse to change their behaviour.

On the other hand, what to some judges appear to be minor offences such as drunken or dangerous driving, to others these are serious as drink/dangerous driving generally can lead to numerous road deaths.

One very simple way of reducing the pressure on prisons which could be done overnight is to put illegal immigrants who are awaiting deportation into a monitored (but minimum security) hostel where they cannot easily leave but which does not require anywhere near the cost of prison places.

It's a pretty ghastly situation where someone who has arrived in the state on a visa but is refused permission to land is put in a maximum security prison, even worse that it costs so much to keep people in these places when they could fairly easily convert a hostel/hotel so that it is secure and they can't easily leave.

Just to expand on your idea some of the ghost estates could be modified into a Mosney-esque minimum security facility for housing certain categories of prisoners such as illegal immigrants for short periods of time.

Not that I am particularly enamoured with the idea of creating these holding facilities but if solutions are needed then we might as well utilise resources that we have at hand.

liamwhite

Deleted User wrote: »

Just to expand on your idea some of the ghost estates could be modified into a Mosney-esque minimum security facility for housing certain categories of prisoners such as illegal immigrants for short periods of time.

Not that I am particularly enamoured with the idea of creating these holding facilities but if solutions are needed then we might as well utilise resources that we have at hand.

If thats the way it goes then im changing my nationality! lol

No i see all your points, they are very valid and truthful,

although i have to say i would like to see them free up a wing in the prison for the bankers to move in :rolleyes:

even if it means letting John Gilligan and the likes of him walk free
I will drink myself into an oblivion with celebrations the day i see these men get escorted to jail with cuffs! BASTARDS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :mad::mad: