Apply for Retention

Layderkinn

Hi,

I have a question in relation to retention on a propery already built in Limerick belonging to my parents. The property in question is just a basic warehouse with a steel structure with PVC lining and was built at the back of house which had a very large garden, it is classfied as a temporary structure according to the legal advice they got. The planning authority have now asked for planning permission which is understandable.

You might ask why was there none in place well the reason being is down to a moronic lawyer who apparently had a background in planning law telling them that as long as the building had no load baring walls and no permanent structure to it they would be ok to go ahead. He also said that in the event of any neighbour raising an eyebrow they could apply for retention especially as the warehouse will be used for business which has created multiple jobs. Once again it is a basic structure, its not looking in on anyone, there is no noise and has no permanent structure except for a small bit of concrete, its simply a steel shell bolted into concrete that is all I suppose as much as i sugar coat the structure its the principle involved really!.

On a side note - WIll the council look favourably on the fact that this warehouse is vital to a new business starting in Munster in times of severe economic downturn or will they just lok at the facts...?

My question is does anyone know the likely hood of getting retention or how the council look upon this process?, even better the chances of getting away with murdering a solicitor who gave bogus advice ....

Any information anyone can give me would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Lay

archtech

Did the "solicitor" put anything in writing?

As for getting retention every case is looked at on its individual merits by a planning authority, taking into account relevant zoning/development plan etc.

Layderkinn

Im unsure whether the solicitor did or not as i have had nothing to do with the actual process myself I said I'd see if anyone had any thoughts on here that i couild relay back to them.

If something is located in writing from the solicitor showing the advice he gave them could that be submitted with the application for retention? Or as you mentioned will the case just be looked at strictly from a develpment and planning law point of view?.

Thanks for your reply.

muffler

Layderkinn wrote: »

as the building had no load baring walls and no permanent structure to it they would be ok to go ahead. He also said that in the event of any neighbour raising an eyebrow they could apply for retention

I dont buy into this at all. It either needs permission or it doesn't. How could he tell them it was OK to build it yet then tell them it would not be OK if the neigbours reported it? I think there is more than the building being fabricated here.

Layderkinn wrote: »

as the building had no load baring walls and no permanent structure to it they would be ok to go ahead.

Its not temporary. If its a warehouse then Im sure its "secured" therefore its a solid structure and requires permission. I think everyone knows that any form of commercial development requires planning permission.

Layderkinn wrote: »

the warehouse will be used for business which has created multiple jobs.

On a side note - WIll the council look favourably on the fact that this warehouse is vital to a new business starting in Munster in times of severe economic downturn or will they just lok at the facts...?

they will look on it no differently than any other similar type development. There are a lot of factors that have to be taken into account such as road safety, residential amenity, contravention of development plan, fire escape, noise pollution, staff accommodation etc etc etc. I could go on. There is a recession country wide and certainly not exclusive to Munster

In saying all that planners do normally take into account the fact that jobs are at stake but at the end of the day that may well not be enough to sway them.

Layderkinn wrote: »

If something is located in writing from the solicitor showing the advice he gave them could that be submitted with the application for retention?

I wouldn't waste the paper submitting anything that the solicitor may have give in writing. I cant see any solicitor putting that type of advice in writing but in the off chance he did then its the Law Society you need to go to and not the local planning office.

Im not having a go here but I feel that you or your parents are now trying to shift the blame for all of this on to the solicitor. The planners would have been the people to ask initially or alternatively a local architect/technician/engineer. Personally I cannot see any solicitor giving that advice either orally or in writing. Perhaps your parents did not pick up exactly what he was saying or completely misunderstood it.

Id suggest you get a local architectural technician to handle this for you and just for the record I hope it all works out okay for you and your parents.

Poor Uncle Tom

Layderkinn wrote: »

The property in question is just a basic warehouse with a steel structure with PVC lining and was built at the back of house which had a very large garden, it is classfied as a temporary structure according to the legal advice they got. The planning authority have now asked for planning permission which is understandable.

You might ask why was there none in place well the reason being is down to a moronic lawyer who apparently had a background in planning law telling them that as long as the building had no load baring walls and no permanent structure to it they would be ok to go ahead. He also said that in the event of any neighbour raising an eyebrow they could apply for retention especially as the warehouse will be used for business which has created multiple jobs.

Firstly: The building has a roof I presume, and I also presume that roof is supported on the walls/sides. If this is the case the walls are loadbearing. Secondly: Any building being used for commercial purposes, whether permanent or temporary, needs planning permission.
Lets look at the facts: There is a commerical building constructed within the curtilage of a dwelling house, without planning permission.

Layderkinn wrote: »

Once again it is a basic structure, its not looking in on anyone, there is no noise and has no permanent structure except for a small bit of concrete, its simply a steel shell bolted into concrete that is all I suppose as much as i sugar coat the structure its the principle involved really!.

Precicely, the principal being set here may be undesireable from a planning point of view. Allowing a commercial development within the curtilage of a dwelling house could be seen as setting an undesireable precident for future developments.

If you persist in making such a big deal about the building being just a temporary structure, you are likely to be asked to remove it and make the application for planning permission instead of an application for retention and save yourself 66% of the retention planning application fee.

Layderkinn wrote: »

On a side note - WIll the council look favourably on the fact that this warehouse is vital to a new business starting in Munster in times of severe economic downturn or will they just lok at the facts...?

When determining the application the council are likely to take account of:
i) The Zoning of the land,
ii) The design of the structure,
iii) How the overall development fits into its surroundings,
iv) Services including potable water usage,
v) Sewerage disposal,
vi) Surface water disposal,
vii) On-site parking,
viii) Entrance and sightlines,
ix) Other similar type developments or the likelyhood of attracting same,
x) Neighbouring properties,
xi) Any observations/objections.
xii) Determination of contributions owed.

Every development plan allows areas for specific developments, usually where shared facilities are available for use by those developments. Any developments outside those areas are usually not looked favourably on. Because the building is existing it will not get any special dispensations from a planning point of view.

Layderkinn wrote: »

My question is does anyone know the likely hood of getting retention or how the council look upon this process?,

Without knowing the exact area it would be difficult giving any more precise information except to say it doesn't sound good, imo.

Mellor

Layderkinn wrote: »

You might ask why was there none in place well the reason being is down to a moronic lawyer who apparently had a background in planning law telling them that as long as the building had no load baring walls and no permanent structure to it they would be ok to go ahead. He also said that in the event of any neighbour raising an eyebrow they could apply for retention ...

Just in the interest of others reading, who might makes similar errors, some observations.


As above, the fact that retention was mentioned means that he was aware that planning was required.

Permanant structure - This means nothing, commercial always ways requires palnning. A temporary structure, is exempt from planning for domestic only. Temporary means, it won't be there long, not that it can come down easily.

Load bearing walls - wtf???
This has zero to do with planning, ever. Every building, structure etc has some load bearing element. Granted its not always walls, but a multistory carpark could have no load bearign walls. Never ever is a factor in planning exemptions.