Schools - Early open and late close?

Noffles

Do schools in Ireland do this... I know that the school my lad goes to does not do anything like this and to be honest at times this it's quite a hassle.
Would be handy to have a breakfast club where we could drop him off early and also if it stayed open later in the evening it would be really handy for us when we return home...

Comments?

REXER

Would you concider paying for the service if it was offered?

Noffles

It would depend on how much... the UK do this almost everywhere, I just don't know if they pay for this... will check.

January

School is not a childminding service for your children, it's there to educate them. They shouldn't have to provide things like breakfast clubs or homework clubs. If you need your child looked after before/after school, find a childminder or chreche to do that for you.

I do know of a school that provides these things, but it would be classed as a school from a disadvantaged area and the children that attend the clubs would have been the type of children that wouldn't have gotten a breakfast before school or help with their homework from their parents, they would be selected by the home/school liasion officer.

Noffles

Ye, it seems there is a charge in the UK but compared to getting a child minder it is far cheaper... so yes I would pay.

average_runner

Compare to get a child minder in the UK on UK prices or Irish prices!


This would cost more here as insurance costs here would be higher.

Nevyn

Schools in a lot of countries do this as standard, it makes sense to use the facilities in this way, but that sort of joined up thinking hasn't hit here.

Noffles

Seems like a really good idea and I'm sure this would help HUNDREDS of families..!

Moonbeam

It is one thing I love about the UK school system,when I was young I had to go to my minder before school then again after would have been handier to be able to go to breakfast and home work club.
Some schools will keep the infants until older siblings finish but I have only heard of breakfast clubs in really disadvantaged schools.
Some schools do have homework clubs run by teachers in their own time.

mymo

My daughter is in first year secondary school, and they have this service, the breakfast club is really for the bus kids that get in early(one lot arrive at 8.10) and only runs from Oct - end of April. So far as I know its a Euro for a cup of tea and toast. The homework club starts in second year I think so not open to her at the moment.
Her primary school also had a homework club, it was Mon-Thurs, for an hour and was about €20-€30 a term depending on the days in the term. I think more school are running these now.

Noffles

mymo wrote: »

My daughter is in first year secondary school, and they have this service, the breakfast club is really for the bus kids that get in early(one lot arrive at 8.10) and only runs from Oct - end of April. So far as I know its a Euro for a cup of tea and toast. The homework club starts in second year I think so not open to her at the moment.
Her primary school also had a homework club, it was Mon-Thurs, for an hour and was about €20-€30 a term depending on the days in the term. I think more school are running these now.

I've heard of the homework clubs but an hour after school is no helpe really, myself or my wife would not be close enought to get to the school by 16:45... the school I saw on the news this morning, BBC News, was open from 06:00 to 22:00 I think... now that would be useful!

mymo

6.00 to 22.00?
Kids should be in bed at those hours!
No matter what my situation I would not be happy with my child being away from me for those kind of hours, spending time with your child is one of the most important things for a child. I understand we all have to work, and often travel for some time at either end of the day, but are you seriously saying you would send your child to school for those hours?

Noffles

mymo wrote: »

6.00 to 22.00?
Kids should be in bed at those hours!
No matter what my situation I would not be happy with my child being away from me for those kind of hours, spending time with your child is one of the most important things for a child. I understand we all have to work, and often travel for some time at either end of the day, but are you seriously saying you would send your child to school for those hours?

No, I'm not saying that and that is not what I asked... please take your opinions on how long children are to be left alone somewhere else... I'm in the real world where people work long hours and commute to work.

mymo

Believe me I live in the real world, I am a single parent, trying to work and study. I understand the hours involved.
Sorry if my post didn't come off the way I meant it.
What I'm trying to say is that for long hours I don't think school is the best place for a child, a child minder would be far better. My thinking is child minder setting would be more relaxed and give the child a chance to wind down after school. Also there is more personal attention and since a child minder is limited to the number of kids.
To be honest it depends on the age of the kids too, second level ages would be more suited to longer hours in school than younger ones. They would also do ok with a lower adult to child ratio than younger children.

Noffles

mymo wrote: »

Believe me I live in the real world, I am a single parent, trying to work and study. I understand the hours involved.
Sorry if my post didn't come off the way I meant it.
What I'm trying to say is that for long hours I don't think school is the best place for a child, a child minder would be far better. My thinking is child minder setting would be more relaxed and give the child a chance to wind down after school. Also there is more personal attention and since a child minder is limited to the number of kids.
To be honest it depends on the age of the kids too, second level ages would be more suited to longer hours in school than younger ones. They would also do ok with a lower adult to child ratio than younger children.

Yes, I agree the age of the child is relevant in this discussion... and at least we're all in the same world.

Nevyn

schools opening at 8 for a breakfast club and having a homework club afterwards would free up a lot for parents, be it money or being able to get back to work or college.

I think that 10pm is far to late, I know schools are open at that time for evening courses but not for pupils.

Noffles

Thaedydal wrote: »

schools opening at 8 for a breakfast club and having a homework club afterwards would free up a lot for parents, be it money or being able to get back to work or college.

I think that 10pm is far to late, I know schools are open at that time for evening courses but not for pupils.

I'm sure a lot of people would agree... on the other hand I'm sure some would welcome it.

di11on

We're in France and our kids go to primary school from 8.50am and school ends at 5pm. They are the regular school hours. Lunch is from 12pm to 2pm and kids have the choice of staying at school and eating in the canteen (for a nominal fee) or of going home for lunch.

That works great.. except on Wednesdays, when there's no school, but I guess it would be easy to find someone to look after the children on Wednesdays.

While school isn't a child minding service, the government do, however, want mothers in the workforce. They redesigned the tax system to make this more appealing to families. If they really want this, you'd think they'd go the full way.

Fittle

I think a school that opens at 8am would be a good idea. Often, breakfast in our house is my child having cereal alone while I run to have a shower/get his clothes ready etc etc. If he could go to a breakfast club at 8.10 for example, I could get into work an hour earlier and then, get home an hour earlier and spend that extra hour with him, in a much more valuable way.

Not gonna happen in our school anyday soon however:rolleyes:

spurious

Our school opens at 7.45 with a breakfast club and the library open at 8.00. The TY class run a breakfast club and a number of other 'entrepreneurial' activities.

The breakfast club is meant for (and used by) children who would be travelling a long way in by bus or train, to let them avoid the rush hour squash, though some local children use it too. The library would be open til 4.45 on normal days.

We can't really use the premises after 6.00 as night classes are on then.

gaeilgegrinds1

What do they provide for breakfast? I'm interested in this...

spurious

gaeilgegrinds1 wrote: »

What do they provide for breakfast? I'm interested in this...

Orange juice, cereal and toast.
I'm not sure the prices they charge but they are making a profit.

However, the big money spinner for the TYs is some sort of Playstation (or X-Box, I don't know the difference) league they have going where the kids pay for each entry. That's raking in the cash and my money would be on that 'team' to win by a mile.

We tried a 'run by staff' breakfast club a few years ago, with tea, toast, cereal and yogurt. It ran into a lot of problems, mainly with stuff going off. Milk products are a bit of a nightmare. The club run by the kids is getting bigger numbers than our staff one ever did.

We supply our students with up to four pieces of different types of fruit each morning at small break (at no charge to them) so we're fairly sure that even the kids who don't take breakfast are still getting some nutritious food.

mariebeth

Noffles wrote: »

I've heard of the homework clubs but an hour after school is no helpe really, myself or my wife would not be close enought to get to the school by 16:45... the school I saw on the news this morning, BBC News, was open from 06:00 to 22:00 I think... now that would be useful!

6.00 to 22.00??? Do the kids even know their parents????

implausible

As others have said, this service is available in some schools and usually operates in one of the following ways:

1. The school is a DEIS (designated disadvantaged) one and receives funding to run a breakfast club or homework club

2. The school privately runs a homework club or after-school study, paid for by the parents.

OP, why don't you get pro-active on this? Bring it up at the next Parents' Association meeting. I'm sure you are not the only parent who would like some type of supervised after (or before) school activity. There will be costs involved, such as paying people to supervise, insurance and equipment (if it's activity-based), but it will probably work cheaper than a créche or childminder.

byhookorbycrook

mariebeth wrote: »

6.00 to 22.00??? Do the kids even know their parents????

I agree,when do you see the child?Trotted out at weekends for an hour or two??

Nevyn

In the case where the schools are open until 10pm in the UK they are secondary schools and the facilies are being used by the communtiy for events and classes and clubs.

Mr Simpson

deemark wrote: »

The school is a DEIS (designated disadvantaged) one and receives funding to run a breakfast club or homework club

Sort of, the breakfast clubs and homework clubs still have to be run on a voluntary basis, the only funding made available to DEIS schools by the DSP is a very small amount to cover food costs only, not staff costs. These also must be accounted for.

gabsdot40

They have this at my son's school. A private company run a breakfast club from 7.30am till 8.50 when school starts. I think it's €6 per day and then they run an after school club till 6pm. the kids do their homework and get a snack and a hot dinner.

wolfpawnat

mariebeth wrote: »

6.00 to 22.00??? Do the kids even know their parents????

Forget that, would we work those hours Monday to Friday. legally your not supposed to!

16 hours, that is cruel. A form of child abuse IMHO!

Ickle Magoo

06:00 - 22:00 is horrendously long day for anyone but which is the better system, the one that has parents/lone parents trapped either out of work because they can't afford childcare or without sufficient means or ability to improve qualification or one that at least allows for childcare that covers a working day and an evening class, even temporarily....trapping families in poverty forever is far greater abuse imo.

byhookorbycrook

What the OP needs is a boarding school.

wolfpawnat

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

06:00 - 22:00 is horrendously long day for anyone but which is the better system, the one that has parents/lone parents trapped either out of work because they can't afford childcare or without sufficient means or ability to improve qualification or one that at least allows for childcare that covers a working day and an evening class, even temporarily....trapping families in poverty forever is far greater abuse imo.

But no child under 12 should up at 10pm. A child needs 8 hours of good sleep a night. And they need to relax at home before bed. Why should the children suffer for their parents. I know parents want to better theirs and their childrens futures, but realism needs to take place too!

Ickle Magoo

Who said it applied to children under 12? Who even suggested that the full hours could even be availed by one single child? I think what enormous use such a system has to those who would otherwise have no opportunity or ability to get themselves or their family out of poverty is being lost in the "won't someone think of the children!!!" hysteria.

The true reality is hundreds of thousand of kids lives could be bettered immeasurably if the irish administration in all it's wisdom recognised that one of the biggest barriers to adult education and parental employment is lack of suitable and, more pertinently, affordable childcare. I say bravo to any government who has pulled it's head far enough into the current century to recognise that.

wolfpawnat

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

Who said it applied to children under 12? Who even suggested that the full hours could even be availed by one single child? I think what enormous use such a system has to those who would otherwise have no opportunity or ability to get themselves or their family out of poverty is being lost in the "won't someone think of the children!!!" hysteria.

The true reality is hundreds of thousand of kids lives could be bettered immeasurably if the irish administration in all it's wisdom recognised that one of the biggest barriers to adult education and parental employment is lack of suitable and, more pertinently, affordable childcare. I say bravo to any government who has pulled it's head far enough into the current century to recognise that.

The OP discussed it for primary and secondary, so all children in Primary are under 12.

And you don't need to preach to me of the need for better childcare prices:). My sons father is a vet student with mad hours and I am due to return to nursing in UCD. But I don't know if I can, I can't see how I can afford the cost of childcare. I may have to sacrifice my career for my son. It is something parents need to think about.

Ickle Magoo

I'm well aware of what constitutes school age children, the post that referred to 06:00 - 22-00 which drew all the hand-wringing hysteria made no mention of whether it was a primary or secondary...likewise there is no call to be preaching what parents need to think about, being one I'd appreciate less of the inferences that I'm not and as such don't know what I'm talking about - as it happens I work, I have two children and I'm studying for a degree; I'm well acquainted with the juggling unicyclist routine. :pac:

I also happen to work in adult education and the system here is almost designed to keep people uneducated and unemployed - some demographics stand no chance of bettering themselves whatsoever, unless they happen upon a lottery win. I'm not talking about the middle-classes that have the luxury of deciding whether or not they'll sacrifice a couple of years of their career while they live of the other-half, though the system is certainly not kind to them either - I think state-run childcare, whether done through the school system or not, holds the most benefit for those that have no other support or means to get themselves out of the poverty trap and into employment or education.

In an ideal world, no parents would work - we could spend all day every day playing with our kids but it's not an ideal world and a system that at least recognises the reality of peoples lives is far superior to one that leaves unsupported or poorly educated people trapped with no hope of changing their situation even when they really want to.

ted1

can't believe there is people looking to out source the rearing of their child to the department of education and put such a low value on it in the same time.

Nevyn

It is parents looking at the building and facilites and wondering why they are not but to more of a use which can and will benefit the community.

Lee1982

this thread is shocking me what's the point in having children if you work so hard in the 1st place?your depriving them of what they need most..your TIME!!!

LegacyUser

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

The true reality is hundreds of thousand of kids lives could be bettered immeasurably if the irish administration in all it's wisdom recognised that one of the biggest barriers to adult education and parental employment is lack of suitable and, more pertinently, affordable childcare. I say bravo to any government who has pulled it's head far enough into the current century to recognise that.

I agree 100%
The cost of childcare here is ridiculous....as difficult as it is to juggle in a two parent household, I am finding it a literally impossible situation as a single parent. I know this is going a bit off topic but really if anyone out there has advice on how a single parent can manage with childcare let me know.....i'm sick of seeing posters complaining about how people, and particularly graduates, turn there noses up at lower paid menial jobs, or how single parents are welfare leeches when the reality is that there are parents out there who are more than willing to work (in any job!) but are financially handicapped by the system in this country. I just finished my degree and i'm studying for my masters now and struggling to pay the childcare for the 2 days I require it now.....if I was to work 40 hrs a week in a minimum paid job I would have roughly the same income I do now, but with the added outgoing of childcare costs, the guts of a grand a month.

its simple maths: outgoings > income = impossible, meaning that when I finish college unless I can walk straight in to a well enough paid job to cover childcare on top of the other usual outgoings (which was hard enough before the recession!) then what choice do I have?
there needs to be more provision/incentive for parents to work and the main barrier from my experience is childcare.

amz5

So are you working for the 5 days that you aren't in college? I don't understand. Who is paying you at the moment? If you are getting funded by the government to do a Masters (which many graduates cannot afford to do) I can't see why you're complaining. I have nearly finished 2 degrees. No Masters yet. The second one was part-time. I'd like to do a Masters too. I don't have time or money to do one.

mikemac

6am - 10pm, my god

There is a solution alright for parents who want the school open those hours.
It's called boarding school and they are all over the country

ktod

Noffles, back to your original question.

Some do, some don't, I guess it depends where you are in the country.

Our son is in secondary school and the school opens at 8am, and has a cafeteria open. They also have study afterwards which goes on until 9pm for the older students, or 5pm for the younger ones. They get a break and food in between from the cafeteria.

It is great for students preparing to do their exams as they can study in peace and quiet.

Our younger boy will be starting primary school next year, and there is an afterschool club that goes on until 4.30 in the afternoon.

In the UK where we used to live, these things are taken for granted, are in the marjority of schools, and are not just there for disadvantaged children.

I have to say that I'm a little surprised by some of the comments - why can't a mother work and have children? And why can't she expect a little help? I have to work to provide more money for my family and I, and am very grateful for homework clubs and afterschool clubs that allow me to do so.

Kildrought

06:00 - 22:00

I didn't see anyone suggest that the children would be at school from 6am to 10pm - what was said was that the building would/could be open those hours.

It makes absolute sense that School buildings should be open and available to the community for as long as possible. We have million-euro community resources closing mid-afternoon each day, closed at weekends and holidays.

Many years ago I was a founder member of a highly successful after-school club; the single biggest issue we faced was finding suitable premises. There were six primary schools in the area and not one of them would allow us to rent out space after schools closed.

The school buildings aren't designed or thought out for multi-use; this is not the only area where we fail miserably to fully utilise all the resources we have at our disposal.

There are three secondary schools in my locality - each of which has separate sports / athletic fields, all have to be managed/maintained and paid for by the schools out of limited resources.

Then the local football club has another field, the rugby club another one, the GAA another, the athletics club a running track etc., etc., all of which has to be paid for by local people doing fundraising, paying dues etc.,

It can't be beyond our capabilities to design and plan on a community basis - not this daft situation of everyone managing their own patch.