Picky girls

LegacyUser

19 year old guy here. From my experience, it seems to be an unspoken fact: In looking for an intimate relationship, girls put a very high emphasis on looks. At least the ones in my age group. If someone of the opposite sex can value your friendship, standards on looks are the only thing stopping the possibility of anything more. These standards seem to be overblown in females. Males have a somewhat greater need for emotional and physical intimacy, thus are the ones doing the initiating. This leaves girls feeling spoiled with choice, and they value handsomeness in a guy to an extent that it is near possible appealing to their emotions otherwise.


Because I'm a below average looking guy, I find this to be a big problem. I am able to relate to girls, they enjoy talking to me, but it's always suggestive that they would never think of me in that way. This is proven when I make a move to try to take it further, they make it clear they do not find me attractive.

I know it appears as if I am blaming my shortcomings when really a bigger problem is at fault, but I can honestly say I do not believe this to be the case. When I chat with a girl, I really do come of as confident and outgoing. I do not judge them by how they look, good or bad. Yet the problem prevails.

What I have said is true, perhaps to a less drastic extent. Is this an age thing that will die out with time? Or just a fact of life, that will make it harder yet more rewarding when I do find a partner?

Beruthiel

There is a vast difference between the expectations of an 18 year old girl and a 30 year old woman.
You don't have to look like Brad Pitt if you've got a great sense of humour and a good personality. These qualities are more prized by an older woman.
Keep that in mind and don't give up the quest.

Distorted

I think when I was that age, I found much the same of 19 year old guys! (in retrospect I realise a lot of the more successful ones targetted the more "easy" girls). Maybe OP you are drawn to the more decent girls? And is this a bad thing? Also please remember that girls are people too and entitled to the right to choose, there is no duty to find someone physically attractive and to become involved physically with them. Some relationships develop out of friendship over time, or at least being in the same group of times. Short, quick hook ups generally do not.

But in answer to your question, yes, probably. If you are already self assured and relatively confident at 19, these qualities will stand you in good stead as you grow older and both sexes look more for more serious relationships.

Wagon

BelowAverageGuy wrote: »

Males have a somewhat greater need for emotional and physical intimacy, thus are the ones doing the initiating. This leaves girls feeling spoiled with choice, and they value handsomeness in a guy to an extent that it is near possible appealing to their emotions otherwise.

This is a good observation but it really depends on the person. Although, unfortunately, girls around that age tend not to want anything too serious. And i don't think it's because us lads have a greater need for intimacy that we do the chasing, it's a social thing where the bloke is often just expected to make the first move. Unfair i know, and it's something we should be moving away from as a society. Both sexes should take responsibility (things would be far easier for everyone then) but at the moment, that hasn't happened yet. Nothing to be done I'm afraid.

Because I'm a below average looking guy, I find this to be a big problem. I am able to relate to girls, they enjoy talking to me, but it's always suggestive that they would never think of me in that way. This is proven when I make a move to try to take it further, they make it clear they do not find me attractive.

Again, i don't think it's down to looks. I have a face like the back of my sack yet I've been with a class lady for two years now. It worked because we were looking for the same thing i.e. a relationship. I think that girls who are 19 are, mostly, not that interested in a relationship.

I know it appears as if I am blaming my shortcomings when really a bigger problem is at fault, but I can honestly say I do not believe this to be the case. When I chat with a girl, I really do come of as confident and outgoing. I do not judge them by how they look, good or bad. Yet the problem prevails.

Like Beruthial said, these are qualities that appeal to older women. Spot on too. Next time your out at a session, have a look at the guys that end up with loads of girls. They are often arseholes aren't they? It's because their arseholery is seen as confidence, which is wrong but when you're 19 it's really hard to tell the difference between the two. When women are older, they can tell.

What I have said is true, perhaps to a less drastic extent. Is this an age thing that will die out with time? Or just a fact of life, that will make it harder yet more rewarding when I do find a partner?

It's an age thing mate. You'll just have to grin and bear it (i think all lads and girls who aren't interested in a one night stand have to) but trust me on this, it does improve. A good idea is to stop giving a ****e about it and talk to girls without making any effort to get closer. It's a catch 22.

consultech

Are you punching above your weight, so to speak, OP? I went through a spate of unrequited "love" heartbreaks in my late teens that I couldn't explain/understand. When I sat down and actually looked at it in my 20's though I was trying to get in there with all very attractive girls, most of which will usually have boyfriends, be totally walled up because they are stared at everywhere they go, or be so hung up on themselves that they aren't looking for the "smart" personality traits in a guy at all. This is a generalisation however, some hot girls have been raised to treat everyone humanely, but these are in the vast minority. They're essentially treated like meat in window in a lot of social situations though.

Even the best looking guys don't automatically pull a "Ten" on the spot fyi. And unfortunately, generally speaking, society has groomed most very attractive girls to be extremely defensive and not particularly welcoming/tolerant of attention from the "wrong" sort of guy (in their eyes). Your advances can either be shunned or postively received depending on how you look. It's not a fair system, attractive girls just seem to be hypocritical in this sense.

As has been stated, don't be that clingy guy who is looking for a relationship out of sheer lonelineness at your age. Turst me, a large part of you will naturally feel like bolting once you get it, because you're so young in the grand scheme of things. The relationship offer is not as appealing to a girl of 19 as you may think, because she is not looking for that, despite what she may think/say.

Don't be afraid to play a few games, be aloof and a little (playfully) mean when interacting with girls, leave em waiting to text back etc etc. It's all part of the game. If you're "below average" looking; Get in good shape, get some nice clothes, peacock a little and really push your personality to the fore. Do some comedy workshops and be that guy at parties etc, or learn guitar, grow your hair, and become the deep and creative type. You're just about young enough to still get on that train. Don't fall into the "movie nights" etc. trap with girls you're trying to hook up with. You're effectively one of the girls if you do this.

The end of this post smells a little of the (sometimes cringey) pickup artist stuff that divides opinion, but it's actually just an extension of social dynamics between boys and girls at ur age, and something I successfully rode for every stop in my early 20's (wrong choice of words perhaps).

Not sure how relevant all this is, hopefully there's some nuggets in there tho.

BobbyOLeary

Wagon wrote: »

They are often arseholes aren't they? It's because their arseholery is seen as confidence, which is wrong but when you're 19 it's really hard to tell the difference between the two.

I love this line. "Oh those guys pulling all the women I want are arseholes, when I'm 30 it'll ALL be different". Bullsh*t.

Their arseholery isn't seen as confidence, it is confidence. Typically they're not arseholes at all but in fact normal guys who you're profoundly jealous of. It's easier to make them into arseholes in your head and go around hating them than to look at yourself and the mistakes you're making.

Women love confidence. It's a broad generalisation but I've honestly yet to meet a woman who doesn't like confident men. I bet that these guys aren't afriad to go over chatting to the girls yes? They aren't embarrassed if the girl says no? Confidence is what that is.

Really, you can sit around and blame 19 y/o women all you want. It'll feel like you're fixing the problem by shifting the blame and you can move on. A slightly better solution would be to perhaps look at the way you approach these situations and how that differs from the successful "arseholes". I figure you'll find that you're really really nice to the girl and compliment her all the time and surprise surprise she doesn't want to sleep with you. All the time the arsehole is slagging her and having a laugh and he takes her home?

Wagon wrote:

When women are older, they can tell.

If that were true then no woman in her 30's would be going out with an arsehole. I think you'll agree that this isn't the case.

LegacyUser

well, not being big headed or anything but i would be considered a good looking guy and i wouldn't agree at all with your analysis. i was actually quite unsuccessful when i was your age and only became more successful when i became more confident and independent. you sound like you have all the tools needed to pull. i guess you might be going wrong with being too clingy, acting too much like a friend or punching above your weight. your only 19 so it will take a while before you get more comfortable with yourself.

Wagon

BobbyOLeary wrote: »

I love this line. "Oh those guys pulling all the women I want are arseholes, when I'm 30 it'll ALL be different". Bullsh*t.

"Bull****" my hole.

Their arseholery isn't seen as confidence, it is confidence.

Guy enjoys sleeping with numerous different women while treating them like crap because in his eyes "they love the chase"...Kind of what I've seen happen in most cases from people around this age.

You can be confident without being a dick but at 19 - 20, not many lads know this.

Typically they're not arseholes at all but in fact normal guys who you're profoundly jealous of. It's easier to make them into arseholes in your head and go around hating them than to look at yourself and the mistakes you're making.

I'm not making any mistakes mate. Stopped making them when i was 19 but didnt resort to acting like a prick, which is what i mean by "arseholes" and you mean by "confidence"...

Women love confidence. It's a broad generalisation but I've honestly yet to meet a woman who doesn't like confident men. I bet that these guys aren't afriad to go over chatting to the girls yes? They aren't embarrassed if the girl says no? Confidence is what that is.

Completely agree with this. Read the orginal post as well, the OP knows this too.

Really, you can sit around and blame 19 y/o women all you want. It'll feel like you're fixing the problem by shifting the blame and you can move on. A slightly better solution would be to perhaps look at the way you approach these situations and how that differs from the successful "arseholes". I figure you'll find that you're really really nice to the girl and compliment her all the time and surprise surprise she doesn't want to sleep with you. All the time the arsehole is slagging her and having a laugh and he takes her home?

Yeah of course, but he never said he was acting like a complete muppet, and who is to say he doesn't have banter with women? I'm assuming he does. But he wants a relationship with someone, not just getting his hole. And most people when they're 19, just want to get their hole. So he's stuck for now.

If that were true then no woman in her 30's would be going out with an arsehole. I think you'll agree that this isn't the case.

Touche salesman. Touche. but you still have to admit, it's less likely than when someone was 19.

LegacyUser

You say that girls you talk to make it clear that they don't find you attractive. That's a very unusual thing for a girl to say to a guy (or a guy to say to a girl). Are you straight out asking them do they find you attractive? Are you pushing the issue? If you're asking girls do they find you attractive, well then the problem is that these girls realise that you have an issue with your looks, which shows an enormous lack of confidence in yourself and it's that which is unattractive, not how you look.

Your post is peppered with allusions to your appearance. YOU think that you're a below average looking guy, I'd bet that no girl has ever said that to you. It's something that you believe for some reason. Thinking like that does nothing for your self esteem. Blaming women for being shallow does nothing for your scoring chances either, that kind of negative mentality can easily be spotted.

BobbyOLeary

Wagon wrote: »

Guy enjoys sleeping with numerous different women while treating them like crap because in his eyes "they love the chase"...Kind of what I've seen happen in most cases from people around this age.

Not quite sure what you're getting at here.

You can be confident without being a dick but at 19 - 20, not many lads know this.

True story. What I was saying was that these guys happen to be confident AND dicks. Not confident because they're dicks. Correlation and causality are two different things

I'm not making any mistakes mate. Stopped making them when i was 19 but didnt resort to acting like a prick, which is what i mean by "arseholes" and you mean by "confidence"...

Wasn't referencing you, it was towards the OP. Congrats on not making the simple mistakes any more, the whole thing gets surprisingly easier after that.

Completely agree with this. Read the orginal post as well, the OP knows this too.

If he does then there really shouldn't be a problem.

who is to say he doesn't have banter with women? I'm assuming he does.

I'm assuming he doesn't. What I get from his post is that he gets himself viewed as a friend not a potential lover. I rarely see guys who have flirty banter with girls viewed as simply friends.

But he wants a relationship with someone, not just getting his hole. And most people when they're 19, just want to get their hole. So he's stuck for now.

I dunno about this. Probably just a difference of experiences but at that age typically girls wanted boyfriends while lads wanted their hole. Maybe it was different with your friends.

Touche salesman. Touche. but you still have to admit, it's less likely than when someone was 19.

No doubt.

RonFan

Woman want to be with the the man with the most status. Someone who conforms socially with society and shows it through being confident.

Girls are attracted to badboys and arseholes because these types try very hard to belittle others, in order to establish a mutual feeling of them being superior. Due to woman's emotional sensitivity, it works wonders on them.

LegacyUser

RonFan wrote: »

Girls are attracted to badboys and arseholes because these types try very hard to belittle others, in order to establish a mutual feeling of them being superior.

I'm attracted to my boyfriend because he's confident and he believes in himself. I've never heard him belittle anyone, and it's because he understands that you cannot assume you know anything about a person or their circumstances (whether they're rich successful 'arrogant arseholes', or they're poor misunderstood 'nice guys').

Wagon

BobbyOLeary wrote: »

I'm assuming he doesn't. What I get from his post is that he gets himself viewed as a friend not a potential lover. I rarely see guys who have flirty banter with girls viewed as simply friends.

You're probably on to something here actually. In that case he needs...

http://www.laddertheory.com/

OP, read this. It'll clear some things up for you and it's probably the most valuable thing a man can find on the net.

I should probably state to begin with that I am a 19 year old girl, and that given the attitude towards someone like me in your post, mine might be a tad defensive/harsh.

OP, maybe I am a victim to the "unspoken fact" of my age and gender, and being a 19 year old girl I couldn't possibly understand the real meaning of a relationship. But as far as I can tell, acting like these girls should grow out of wanting to be with someone they can be attracted to is ridiculous. Are looks all that matter? No. Do looks matter when you want to be friends with someone? No. Should you judge a person's intelligence or personality or worth by looks? No. When looking for an intimate relationship, should you be attracted to the other person? Yes. By attraction I don't mean that the person should be universally accepted as beautiful, but you should find them attractive in your own opinion. Usually I don't find a guy attractive until after I get to know him. You say you can't get the kind of relationship you want with girls because they're judging you on your looks. Does this mean you try to get with girls even if you find them unattractive? I think it would be unfair on a girl to get with her if you think badly of her. I'm no Angelina Jolie, but when I'm with someone I like to assume they don't think I'm ugly. I'd feel sick to my stomach if I had sex with someone, knowing they're only doing it because they "don't judge me by my looks".

I've heard quite a few lads complain about a girl not seeing them for what they are because she's too hung up on what they look like, or because she only seems to like guys who treat her like dirt, etc. These guys were usually talking about the most attractive girl they knew. Hypocritical? I'm sure you only like the girls you like because of their dazzling wit and intellect, and that if they had a foot for a face you'd still think they were great once they didn't judge you by your looks. Of course, I'm sure you're really far more enlightened and mature than any other 19 year old, and you're just looking to form an intimate relationship with these girl's intellects.

To be fair, I can understand that maybe you've recently had a hard time with a girl or a few girls that you liked. But blaming them isn't the thing to do. They're entitled to choose whether or not to be with you, based on whatever criteria they want. Putting it down to their age (as if you're not 19 too) and asking if they'll grow out of it is not going to help the situation, and personally is a little offensive.

Sorry if I'm overreacting. I probably am, but I couldn't seem to leave this thread without posting a reply.

Cheeky_gal

Hi OP

Considering I'm a 19 year old girl I feel as though I should contribute to this thread.

I went out with a 25 year old bloke for over a year (since found out he's 28 but that's irrelevant), anyways he was a 6"2 tall lanky red headed bloke who most of my mates said "looked like a complete junky", but to me he was the most attractive guy out there! And it was all because of one thing - his confidence. Honestly that was it. He was a total and utter dickhead looking back in the way he treated me/lied to me for that whole year but then again I seem to attract those assh*les and I need to become less naive/gullable in future.

Other posters here are saying "girls at that age don't want a relationship, wait a few years then go hunting". That's boll*x! Plenty of my friends are in relationships and I would love to be in one but I'm been very cautious due to my bad experiences with guys.

Maybe you should join Tagged or something, myself and a lot of my mates meet up with people off this regularly! Not only is it a great way of interacting with people/finding out what girls/guys like in a person but through my own experience a lot of the guys I've met up with have now become close pals to me, we'd go out the weekends together, meet for tea, hang out etc. Don't listen to people here saying "stop trying no 19 year old girl wants a relationship.", some do, some don't, it's just upto you to find the one that does

consultech

Cheeky_gal wrote: »

Don't listen to people here saying "stop trying no 19 year old girl wants a relationship.", some do, some don't, it's just upto you to find the one that does

I was one of those.

Listen, generally speaking, 19 year olds are not looking for relationships, at least not in earnest. Yes, you may say you want one, and may end up in a 2/3 year+ one, but you'll probably be saddened to see the stats on relationships that started at 19. Unfortunately an overwhelmibgly HUGE percentage do not last the distance.

Cheeky_gal

consultech wrote: »

I was one of those.

Listen, generally speaking, 19 year olds are not looking for relationships, at least not in earnest. Yes, you may say you want one, and may end up in a 2/3 year+ one, but you'll probably be saddened to see the stats on relationships that started at 19. Unfortunately an overwhelmibgly HUGE percentage do not last the distance.

Out of interest what age are you?

I'm not suggesting the OP goes out with the intention of looking for his future wife, if he meets a girl and it only lasts a year, two years, three years...even a month...who cares?! He never said he was looking for something serious he said he was looking for a relationship and in my eyes I don't enter relationships with the mindset "will this bloke be my future husband!" you go with the flow...

consultech

Cheeky_gal wrote: »

Out of interest what age are you?

I'm not suggesting the OP goes out with the intention of looking for his future wife, if he meets a girl and it only lasts a year, two years, three years...even a month...who cares?! He never said he was looking for something serious he said he was looking for a relationship and in my eyes I don't enter relationships with the mindset "will this bloke be my future husband!" you go with the flow...

Yeah that's a fair shout, and I feel the same way. My post was perhaps a little dismissive of (even subconsciously) getting into a relationship knowing it's not gonna last the distance, there's no harm in that, especially not at 19. Call me an old-fashioned romatic I guess, but I'm a few years older than OP.

I think the common theme of advice is just relax and stop worrying about trying to have something as specific as a relationship (my advice is that anyway), and definitely don't be looking for "till death do us part" at this stage of your life.

I'm older than 25, but younger than 27 FYI.

Wonkagirl

I think men (of all ages) are MUCH more guilty of this behaviour OP.. they are a lot more visual imo.

Women love guys that are funny... so get out that joke book! A way to a girls knickers (or heart!) is through her tickles.

when you say you are 'below' average, what are we talking? like, on a 1-10 scale? Is there anything you could do- as in, are you heavy? Could you do with a wash? that kind of thing? a makeover?? or is there no hope..?

RonFan

Wonkagirl wrote: »

I think men (of all ages) are MUCH more guilty of this behaviour OP.. they are a lot more visual imo.

Yes, looks are the only thing guys judge by, but that doesn't mean they are picky in that sense.

In the initiating stage of a relationship, both sexes do not play equal part. Males are the ones expected to sell themselves to the females in order to seek an interest, their interest is already apparent to the female. The woman left out of this equation have to accept that if they want to attain a partner, they must initiate effort. I strongly believe that if a less attractive girl makes an effort with a guy, he is much more likely to comply with her interests than if a less attractive guy was to do so with a girl. Which concludes to me, that in fact girls are more judgmental about looks overall.

LegacyUser

RonFan wrote: »

Yes, looks are the only thing guys judge by, but that doesn't mean they are picky in that sense.

In the initiating stage of a relationship, both sexes do not play equal part. Males are the ones expected to sell themselves to the females in order to seek an interest, their interest is already apparent to the female. The woman left out of this equation have to accept that if they want to attain a partner, they must initiate effort. I strongly believe that if a less attractive girl makes an effort with a guy, he is much more likely to comply with her interests than if a less attractive guy was to do so with a girl. Which concludes to me, that in fact girls are more judgmental about looks overall.

Thats not a great way to base a conclusion on, and very convenient to your sex, I take it you are a male.

Truth is there are good and bad people everywhere we can never 100% know if women judge on looks more then men it is a waist of time trying to figure it out from personal experience... just accept that both sexes do it. If you want a nice girl then hang around with nice people, dont hang around with shallow people.

HavingCrack

According to psycology research (I'm too lazy to dig them out) women, in general, place somewhere between 20-30% on looks in men with 60% on confidence/personality/humour whatevr with another 10% on other things (in a band, wealthy etc). Men, on average, place something like 60% on womens looks in the inital stages.

Make of al lthat what you will