Rip Off Ireland? - Cut Off Ireland!

Priori

I found the following video on Youtube. Now, I used to be a happy ESB customer but am now with BG, so my loyalties are divided. I do think the video makes a fair point (if in an overly-sinister style... nice music though). I think the finger is really being pointed at the regulator rather than at BG anyway (and perhaps at ruthless private enterprises like Airtricity - see here - who contribute nothing of their profits to the exchequer).

Now, with prices going up again this month, and disconnections going through the roof (the video says they've doubled) - I mean, disconnection and reconnection; that's €200 (more or less) extra per household, on top of the debt that already got them disconnected.

Helpful? Hardly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ug969WSniY0

whiterebel

Priori wrote: »

I found the following video on Youtube. Now, I used to be a happy ESB customer but am now with BG, so my loyalties are divided. I do think the video makes a fair point (if in an overly-sinister style... nice music though). I think the finger is really being pointed at the regulator rather than at BG anyway (and perhaps at ruthless private enterprises like Airtricity, who contribute nothing to the exchequer).

Now, with prices going up again this month, and disconnections going through the roof (the video says they've doubled) - I mean, disconnection and reconnection; that's €200 (more or less) extra per household, on top of the debt that already got them disconnected.

Helpful? Hardly.

Don't they? Not providing employment, taxes, etc?
You seem to find two of the most bloated over-paid semi-state bodies perfectly acceptable?

Cabaal

OP may I suggest you also complain about O2, Vodafone, Three, Meteor, Eircom, Imagine, Digiweb etc for any customer's they disconnect.

Perhaps we'd be better off going back to the days of Eircom being state owned and also having no competition in the telecoms market as well?

ALOT of people ignore debt instead of facing it head on, talk to the companys and work out payment plans...this is something lots of people fail to do.

jor el

Wow, what a load of hype. Saying the ESB are at the mercy of the regulator is such a con. The regulator only sets price, the ESB decide to cut people off, outsource debt, what to charge for connection or re-connection, what they charge for a visit by the person who calls to you before they disconnect (and yes, they charge for this man to come out and tell you that you're about to be disconnected). The ESB also request price increases from the regulator, the regulator doesn't just pick numbers out of the air. They also don't argue that prices should be reduced.

A little bit of research before this kind of over-stated tabloid tripe would be a good thing.

Priori wrote: »

(and perhaps at ruthless private enterprises like Airtricity, who contribute nothing to the exchequer).

You've proven you know nothing about this right there. What exactly makes Airtricity so ruthless? If you're making a claim that Airtricity have never paid any corporation tax, employer PRSI, VAT returns, etc, then please produce the evidence to back such a claim. Otherwise I'm just going to continue to dismiss everything you say some sort of soap-box ravings.

Airtricity has it's problems, but making up lies about them won't help you get your point across.

Max Power1

jor el wrote: »

Wow, what a load of hype. Saying the ESB are at the mercy of the regulator is such a con. The regulator only sets price, the ESB decide to cut people off, outsource debt, what to charge for connection or re-connection, what they charge for a visit by the person who calls to you before they disconnect (and yes, they charge for this man to come out and tell you that you're about to be disconnected). The ESB also request price increases from the regulator, the regulator doesn't just pick numbers out of the air. They also don't argue that prices should be reduced.

A little bit of research before this kind of over-stated tabloid tripe would be a good thing.



You've proven you know nothing about this right there. What exactly makes Airtricity so ruthless? If you're making a claim that Airtricity have never paid any corporation tax, employer PRSI, VAT returns, etc, then please produce the evidence to back such a claim. Otherwise I'm just going to continue to dismiss everything you say some sort of soap-box ravings.

Airtricity has it's problems, but making up lies about them won't help you get your point across.

Follow your own advice. The charges for disconnection and reconnection are mandated by the CER, and are levied by ESB Networks to all suppliers, and must be passed on from supplier to end user.

Priori

whiterebel wrote:

Don't they? Not providing employment, taxes, etc?
You seem to find two of the most bloated over-paid semi-state bodies perfectly acceptable?

RE the exchequer; apologies for my mistake here. A thoughtless comment. What I should have said was that they contribute nothing of their profits to the exchequer. And I agree, from what I know of ESB and BG, they are indeed bloated, and do not fairly distribute their wealth among staff. A friend of a friend works for ESB in some admin job, and she doesn't earn anything near the recently quoted average weekly wage of €800.

jor el wrote:

Saying the ESB are at the mercy of the regulator is such a con... The ESB also request price increases from the regulator, the regulator doesn't just pick numbers out of the air... over-stated tabloid tripe...

The video I believe is addressing a far more prevalent con of believing that the ESB are wholly responsible for what's going on. And insofar as it does that, it fills a niche I believe: there is plenty of tabloid tripe out there that needs to be countered in kind.
With regards to your comment that ESB request price increases; the CER raised ESB's prices in order to entice competition into the market, did it not? And do you suppose the ESB wanted this?

jor el

Priori wrote: »

With regards to your comment that ESB request price increases; the CER raised ESB's prices in order to entice competition into the market, did it not? And do you suppose the ESB wanted this?

The ESB have requested price increases in the past, just because the CER raised the price the last time doesn't mean the ESB aren't responsible for any price rise. Were the ESB happy with this price rise? I don't know the answer to that, but I've never heard anyone from the ESB complain about their prices being forced up.

Stinicker

All we have seen over the last three years is prices increases in the market, the reason for this is to allow the market to introduce competition to market where none was needed and where competition cannot not actually compete. It is false competition, it is like a petrol station selling fuel at €1.30/litre and then the regulator increasing prices to €1.40/litre so some other idiot can setup next door at €1.39/litre.

The ESB should have remained a natural monopoly and with its mixture of infrastructure and generating capacity was able to offer energy to the consumer at much lower prices set by the state who owned the thing. With a National monopoly the state could now cut power costs to alleviate fuel poverty in Ireland.

The current situation is the same thing that happened to Eircom they are being thrown to the vulture so Fianna Fail kronies can make a buck of it and the consumer will suffer. If Eircom was state owned Ireland would have a much better broadband infrastructure today than outdated systems we have now. The ESB built the network and work in weather you wouldn't put a dog out in, will Airtricity or Bord Gais stand poles or get the power back in the middle of Hurricane force winds in a winter storm?

They will like hell, they are parasites piggybacking on the back of the ESB who will take the money and run. Airtricity and Bord Gais customers will be left in the dark while the ESB crews see to their own customers first, just like Eircom gives priority to their own customers.

The next thing they will probably try is to privatise the ESB and if that happens, hello Enron and rolling brownouts around the country.

Max Power1

Stinicker wrote: »

The ESB built the network and work in weather you wouldn't put a dog out in, will Airtricity or Bord Gais stand poles or get the power back in the middle of Hurricane force winds in a winter storm?

They will like hell, they are parasites piggybacking on the back of the ESB who will take the money and run. Airtricity and Bord Gais customers will be left in the dark while the ESB crews see to their own customers first, just like Eircom gives priority to their own customers..

This post is so incorrect I dont know where to start.

ESB (Networks) built the electricity infrastructure, and are still responsible for its maintenance, along with Eirgrid.

Your supplier (ESB CS, Airtricity, BG Energy or whoever) does not affect the service you will recieve from ESB networks. In case of a blackout you contact ESB networks regardless of who your supplier is.

As for the highlighted part, this is actually incorrect.

Priori

Maybe part of the reason that the ESB are coming under such fire in relation to disconnections is that ESB Networks are the guys that actually go out and disconnect on behalf of the supplier.

Cabaal

Priori wrote: »

Maybe part of the reason that the ESB are coming under such fire in relation to disconnections is that ESB Networks are the guys that actually go out and disconnect on behalf of the supplier.

Could be the case, the average guy on the street doesn't know the difference between ESB Customer Supply and ESB Networks.

This is one of the main reasons why they want ESB Customer Supply to rebrand.....of course people are bitching about this too :rolleyes:

Can't please some people I guess,