Are Nokia's Days Numbered?

Vinny-Chase

Have had nothing but Nokias since the 5110 and have loved them. But lately they seem to just be going backwards. I love the Ovi Suite and being able to sync the contacts etc. God knows I need that when my N97 decided to erase all my data...everything!

The iPhone took a massive chunk of business away from them and now with the Android OS they really don't seem to have a leg to stand on. I know I've a pain in my face when I hear about apps advertised for your "iPhone or Android handset" no mention EVER of Symbian.

Why would they not consider switching to Android Firmware?

How long can they compete before they go the ways of Motorola and other lesser brands into almost obscurity?

Smcgie

Yes an I for one am glad, they ruined their reputation with cheap non lasting plastic phones. They deserve everything that has happened to them.

angel01

I think they will always have a market share, they appeal to a big market (though it is decreasing), not everyone wants android or can afford an iphone so they may look to a cheaper phone and that is where Nokia come in. Not everyone wants apps and what not..

I haven't touched a Nokia in years but that is down to a personal preference.

Tom Dunne

Nokia aren't going anywhere yet.

If you look at these figures from Gartner, Nokia are miles ahead of the competition, with 35% of the market.

It is only when you look at the detail of those figures that you see Samsung and LG are next. And where are these phone being sold? In developing countries.

Nokia is losing share rapidly at the top end of the market, but is making up for it with volume at the low end.

Nokia N900. 'nuff said.

podge018

what's your gripe with the N900?

AlmightyCushion

Meego looks quite nice (I can't wait to see it released and get to play with it) and as long as they avoid situations like the N97 and gain some developer support I can see them coming back strong. Microsoft are gonna push WP7 very hard and if anyone can get developer support it's microsoft. Apple and android are in a very strong position and I can't see that changing any time soon. Nokia have a tough battle ahead of them but if they do it right they can bring it back.

mickoneill30

I'd say they'd always be around. My last Nokia was the N97. Nice hardware but awful software. Now I've an Android and my wife still has the N97. When she needs help with her phone it's like using a phone from years ago it's so far behind Android.

I was in Thailand a couple of weeks ago and iPhone / Android have a little to no presence in the shops there (well any shops I was in anyway). The major brand was Nokia. I don't know if it's similar across all of Asia but if it is they'll be around for a while. But they need to do something drastic to be any kind of leader in the smartphone market.

justsomebloke

Tom Dunne wrote: »

Nokia is losing share rapidly at the top end of the market, but is making up for it with volume at the low end.

Not really. Their share price is only a quarter of what it was back in 2007 so yes it is selling bucket loads of phones however the profit margains on them are very small especially in developing countries.

We all know nokia is losing market share in the smarthphone area however it is also going to be losing it's market share in the business market very soon as well by simply not giving the customer what it wants. The prime example is ditching the e72 form factor for the new e7 form factor. Yes the e7 may get some new customers in but they will probably lose more by not having a decent blackberryesque phone (e5 doesn't cut it as a replacement as it is a replacement for the e63).

basill

I have been a loyal long time user of Nokias. Remember the days when Nokia was one of the few manufacturers to offer tri band? But I have to say I am getting more and more frustrated with them.

The mrs has shifted to the dark side - Apple. Loads of apps, mostly free. Things like pdf readers are free and lots of other utilities beside. Nokia wants you to fork out to buy a pdf reader to use on my Nokia 5800. Adobe don't seem interested in supporting Symbian either. Free mapping is great on my Nokia but then I don't think it is unfair to ask that the motorways in Ireland be included. Like how long has the M8 bypassed Abbeyleix! There were plans drawn up for these motorways at least 10 years ago so all someone needed to do was to push go on them.

Then there is the halfway house of swiping your screen on the Nokia 5800. Its almost like they couldn't admit that Apple came up with an industry standard and just adopt it themselves. Some things you can swipe, others have to be jabbed at on screen. Not at all user friendly and it defies logic.

I don't particularly like the idea of Android either. Those college geeks sold out on Google and it worries me how invasive they are becoming let alone with their cars driving around taking snaps of everyone.

Whilst I would like to continue supporting Nokia it is becoming increasingly more and more difficult to.

ChopShop

Vinny-Chase wrote: »

How long can they compete before they go the ways of Motorola and other lesser brands into almost obscurity?

MOT are making a bit of a comeback in the US though.

basill wrote: »

Nokia was one of the few manufacturers to offer tri band? But I have to say I am getting more and more frustrated with them.

I could've sworn Motorola beat them to the punch with the Timeport.?




As was said earlier, they've a big share in developing countries and generally in lower end phones.

They've just been having a bit of trouble hitting the mark smartphonewise... N95 had teething problems, N96 and N97 weren't a success. The N900.....is almost too smart for it's own good.

The N9 may have potential, but they will need support from other Meego backers to ensure Meego becomes more significant.

SerialComplaint

I'm getting fairly frustrated with my Nokia 5800 - see http://discussions.mea.nokia.com/t5/Nseries-and-S60-Smartphones/Lots-of-reasons-why-my-Nokia-5800-Xpress-Music-sucks/td-p/772322 for the long list of reasons.

ChopShop

SerialComplaint wrote: »

I'm getting fairly frustrated with my Nokia 5800 - see http://discussions.mea.nokia.com/t5/Nseries-and-S60-Smartphones/Lots-of-reasons-why-my-Nokia-5800-Xpress-Music-sucks/td-p/772322 for the long list of reasons.

I don't know why anybody wouldn't find the 5800 frustrating. It makes the N97 look slick by comparison.

jesus_thats_gre

Having used the N8 and a few other devices today, no!

donkey balls

my first phone was a siemans it was like a brick:D that was in 97 after that it was nokia all the way although i did use a SE for a while in OZ but changed back to Nokia.
I was one of the people that got the N97 now i will admit, i have had my problems with it but with the last FW update it does not freeze,in the mean time i have gone to the dark side IP4 i used it for about a week before going back to my N97,I only got the IP4 as i was due an upgrade so as soon as the N8 is out i will be getting it and the IP4 will be out the door.

Queerdub

basill wrote: »

I have been a loyal long time user of Nokias. Remember the days when Nokia was one of the few manufacturers to offer tri band? But I have to say I am getting more and more frustrated with them.

The mrs has shifted to the dark side - Apple. Loads of apps, mostly free. Things like pdf readers are free and lots of other utilities beside. Nokia wants you to fork out to buy a pdf reader to use on my Nokia 5800. Adobe don't seem interested in supporting Symbian either. Free mapping is great on my Nokia but then I don't think it is unfair to ask that the motorways in Ireland be included. Like how long has the M8 bypassed Abbeyleix! There were plans drawn up for these motorways at least 10 years ago so all someone needed to do was to push go on them.

Then there is the halfway house of swiping your screen on the Nokia 5800. Its almost like they couldn't admit that Apple came up with an industry standard and just adopt it themselves. Some things you can swipe, others have to be jabbed at on screen. Not at all user friendly and it defies logic.

I don't particularly like the idea of Android either. Those college geeks sold out on Google and it worries me how invasive they are becoming let alone with their cars driving around taking snaps of everyone.

Whilst I would like to continue supporting Nokia it is becoming increasingly more and more difficult to.

Mobile Documents for Symbian is great app that allows one look at huge pdf and photo files. Give it a go!

BostonB

I never liked Nokia, any phone I've used of theres has horrendous bugs.

OVI store. What a crock of...

drunkmonkey

I left them after the e71, best phone I ever had at the time, then the charging port broke for the 3rd time and that probably will be the last nokia for me in a long time.
Galaxy S is my first samsung and i'm very impressed, no wobbly charging port and no need to take out the battery to get it working every other day.

evolutionqy7

they are and they might not be. the quality of their products and especially the high end smartphone share has been dropping...

ok every one keeps saying nokia is still light years ahead in sales from any other company, but in fact its their sales of 30 euro worth of handsets. so if we took away the low end phones what are we left with?

_____________________

hobochris

While they stick with Symbian they will continue to go down hill unless Symbian pull of some sort of miracle overhaul of there OS... can't see it happening.

If they switched to Android I think they could get back on top of the market.

senordingdong

No, because all Nokia seem to care about is providing good quality phones with good functionality, reliability and practicality.

They're not obssessed with current trends or stupid gimmicks.

Tom Dunne

hobochris wrote: »

While they stick with Symbian they will continue to go down hill unless Symbian pull of some sort of miracle overhaul of there OS... can't see it happening.

If they switched to Android I think they could get back on top of the market.

This ^

Engadget recently slated the brand-spanking-new N8. While they ogled the high-end hardware, they gave it 5/10 primarily for Symbian.

I can't see them ever going to the Dark Side of Android, and I can't see Meego doing anything for them (too little, too late).

evolutionqy7

senordingdong wrote: »

No, because all Nokia seem to care about is providing good quality phones with good functionality, reliability and practicality.

What ? my n97 literally rattled apart into bits.
Switch to unlock the phone was sticking,
The plastic shell was noisy and gets scratched to easy (cheap plastic)
Also the OEM battery falling out all the time,
Symbian is hardly practical? It was a brick.
Reliable ? freezing all the time?

The only thing i every liked about it was the FM transmitter...

hobochris

evolutionqy7 wrote: »

What ? my n97 literally rattled apart into bits.

As did my n95.

gbee

Down through the years they were slow to adopt technologies that that they were developing themselves.

In some cases they licensed off solutions that they had no application for, only to get dwarfed eventually by their competition.

it's akin to IBM paying Gates to make DOS and then Gates making a better Dos and releasing it in competition against them.

Nokia were very reluctant to deviate off their planned strategy and somehow failed to see opportunities and spot trends.

I'm not sure of the 'cheap' tag associated with their phones, I was pretty happy with their products, up to the smart phone.

ChopShop

senordingdong wrote: »

They're not obssessed with current trends or stupid gimmicks.

Trends and gimmicks are part of what sells phones, and they've shown some interest in them in the past...

..that said, releasing phones that look dated even when just launched isn't something
entirely new to them. Some of their entry level models in the late nineties/early zeros were very basic.


They've just failed to keep up on the higher end of the market. Other manufacturers were firing warning shots across their bow years ago, but they didn't wake up and see that their market share was under threat... and now they're reaping the rewards.

I'd like to say Nokia are a great manufacturer in terms of reliability, usability, but of the nine models i've had over the years only the 6320 and N900 have been devoid of firmware and/or hardware issues.

The N900 ..is a good Platform, but if they'd got it to the market a year, maybe 18 months earlier, and without the feeling of 'incompleteness' that it has, their smarthphone situation may be more favorable.

Like people have said earlier, it just feels like they're slow to react.

Tom Dunne wrote: »

and I can't see Meego doing anything for them (too little, too late).

...definitely late, quite probably little too. Too little, too late... they have their work cut out for them. I'll definitely be installing Meego ASAP... but the N9 just looks like a shaky prospect right now.

Feels like i'm stuck between Android and iPhone. Neither of which i'm crazy about.

evolutionqy7

wernstrom! wrote: »

Feels like i'm stuck between Android and iPhone. Neither of which i'm crazy about.

windows phone 7 for you then :rolleyes:

ChopShop

evolutionqy7 wrote: »

windows phone 7 for you then :rolleyes:

You didn't mention Symbian 3.

evolutionqy7

ughhhh (shivers running down my spine)

:pac::pac::pac::pac::pac:

i had great love for nokias...but most of the time they just kept disappointing me

i even found windows mobile better...and thats not saying alot for symbian lol

ChopShop

evolutionqy7 wrote: »

ughhhh (shivers running down my spine)

l

N97: Second worst phone i've ever owned.

So bad, my network replaced it under insurance

Without even asking me to send it in.

..and they didn't even charge me the fee to replace it.

Twiki

A revealing, if lengthy, article detailing the infighting and bureaucracy that has left Nokia in such a precarious position at the moment...

http://www.hs.fi/english/article/Knock+Knock+Nokias+Heavy+Fall/1135260596609

andy0

That's an interesting article, but a couple of angles aren't mentioned

Someone I know worked for Nokia for a while, and said that although it had been decided to concentrate on having fewer new models, things seemed as if the development teams hadn't been told this.

They have also had to concentrate on developing nice new software to make the smartphones more attractive, for example eventually giving away Ovi Maps with some phones, while there seem to be more third-party developers for iPhone and Android platforms.

That said, I just don't understand why their Comes With Music service hasn't been a runaway success. I also don't understand how they cover the royalties. My phone has about 150 albums on it so far.

As for more modest phones, 5 or 10 year old ones still work, and replacement cases don't cost much

BostonB

Nokia software is just dire. Its like they just keep bolting on features, and a lot of if just isn't integrated into the OS. Something that takes like 2 clicks on another phone takes 5 on a Nokia. Pick up two very similar nokia phones and they'll be a whole load of things that work differently in the OS.

For example on my Nokia, if I have a missed call, and ring them back via the phone book, or by typing in the number it doesn't clear the missed call. The databases are not integrated with each other. Photos are in folders, but the photo viewer doesn't see the folders. Has Micro USB, but can't charge from it. Lots of daft things like that.

The OVI store is terrible aswell.

tricky D

When Dilbert came to Nokia
Fascinating report shows how bureaucratic fear sealed company's fate in 2003

BostonB

That report is so on the money.