Forestry Pros and Cons?

bouli73

Grateful for advice from anyone who has planted forestry recently.

I'm a part time farmer. thinking of planting about 20acres of marginal land in forestry. remainding 45 acres would be good land.
Facing a bit of resistance at home from older generation (land is ruined with forestry, well never get it back etc) This to me seems plain daft as land is poor anyway, covered in rushes and not producing any economic return good bad or indifferent. At least with forestry, there is a return for 20yrs and I hope a good long term investment.

I have consulted with a forestry company and I am due to meet with Teagasc advisor shorlty also. Technical approval with the department has been obtained.

Before i take the leap, just thought i would ask for any advice others who have planted would have? Issues that you encountered or things that you would do differently if you had your way over again?

Any advice appreciated and thanks in advance

johngalway

Never planted and would be of the same frame of mind of the older generation.

Could you reclaim it and make it productive, spray, top, spray, drain, reseed, spread muck.

I don't like seeing evergreens go up on land that can be made use of, but each to their own

Tipp Man

johngalway wrote: »

Never planted and would be of the same frame of mind of the older generation.

Could you reclaim it and make it productive, spray, top, spray, drain, reseed, spread muck.

I don't like seeing evergreens go up on land that can be made use of, but each to their own

Would be of the same frame of mind as yourself John

I have seen some of the very best land in this country (relatively small amount) planted, such a waste I feel and this land would be 5 ton wheat land so excellent quality

However if the land is marginal then it is probably the best return you will get and is probably the best thing the land could be doing

Dozer1

We planted 60 acres about 8 years ago now, one of the best decisions we made. like yourself it was poor land that wasn't giving any great return. Luckily for us we got quite alot of broadleaf trees in ours as its near a main road and I agree an all evergreen plantation isn't the nicest.
Now we have fixed return which doesn't go up and down with market forces. We've used it to pay for machinery and a shed, which before planting we wouldn't have been able to do.

Only issue we had was the ESB, if there is a power line going through the land then you've to get your money out of them for the access corridor.

Also planning permission is required. Best of luck

bouli73

Of the 20 acres I am considering planting, i have no doubts at all about 13 acres. The remaining 7 could be improved but because of location they have to be included in the area for forestry if it is to go ahead at all.

I am not making a living off the farm, nor would i have a pups chance of doing so. I work full time off farm.
A look at any of 20 threads here shows how difficult it is for full time farmers to make a living let along the part timers. Any money i get from planting is going right back to the older generation, not one cent in my pocket. my only interest is in making sure the place makes a few pounds for them and breaks even if possible for me.
The alternative is lease the place out and we have had bad experience with cowboys in teh past. would prefer to avoid if possible

F.D

My granduncle planted 50 acres 4 years ago now and since passed away
we have since taken 20 back and sowed a perfectly high yeilding crop of barley and have it ploughed and ready to sow a winter crop again, as soon as i can afford to there will be another 20 acres coming out
10 acres is marginal and i dont mind either ways. the questions i ask and the ones i get very hard to get answers for are the following ...

Grant is only for 20 years, what do you do for the remainder?
Thinnings will barley break even
final crop OK a big lump sum, land needs to be replanted, no grant, for the next 20 years until the thinnings start again, i think you will find you wont have much money left by the time you start earning again.

If your in your 60's go ahead it will see you out
I think if your land is very bad fair enough
i think its like all the big farmers the size of production will make them money, i think 20 acres of forestry here and there is no different that many of the part time beef farmers now( including myself) a low income enterprise.

all i say is research some other things that are less permanant and can move with market trrends

Dozer1

Like every other farming enterprise, if you're serious about farming you take the income from the 20 years of premiums, thinnings etc and you use it to better your existing holding or purchase better quality land.

That's how I look at it anyway, when I went to the bank they said lovely job we know for the next 20 years I've a cetain amount of gauranteed income, if I hadn't that I don't think i'd have got any type of loan approved.
If you just take the premium and spend it all every year then that's your option but for marginal or poorer quality land its a better return as far as I can see.

bouli73

Thanks for attached F.D.

This is my problem.

I am in my mid 30's. The home farm has been let for last 15 years. I part time farm my father in laws land, about 18 acres.
I need to generate an income for my mother from teh home farm. she is not crazy of the idea of leasing out again but needs the income it generates. I cannot afford to pay her 5000 to rent land, reps is gone, so what do you do? All i have the time for is part time beef farming and at that it is a struggle with young family, work etc
Choices, as I see them, are basically A) Lease land and put up with sh*t that sometimes come with this. I know you can have decent tenants but the bad ones leave a sour taste in the mouth generate an income from part of the land, ie forestry, and farm the rest.

I take your points about the post 20 year period and replanting in years to come.

I am not tied to forestry but would genuinely like to hear of an alternative that would bring that, or any kind of cash in?

JohnBoy

I'd agree with your approach bouli.

We have 9 acres of marginal land.

back in the 90s when it was well drained, well grazed and well managed it was fit for grazing maybe 5 months of the year.

It could, with a lot of time and money be brought back to that state, which will cost over a grand an acre by the time it's all done (drainage, fencing, sprays, spraying, mowing rushes, and how long would it take for that land to repay that investment?


We're going to plant it with ash.

It'll look nice, give us the premium (assuming the government dont default on it, which wouldnt surprise me) and as the premium comes to an end there'll be a nice amenity benefit from it, a lifetime of firewood and some hurleys.

It is however a lifetime commitment though (curious as to how F.D. got out of it) and one I'd only look to as a diversification measure as opposed to an income. because I just dont trust that the government has the money to keep it going.

blue5000

Hi bouli,

Have a look at this weeks farming indo, good article there by Darragh Mculloch on returns from forestry over 35 yrs. Not a huge amount to be made out of it, but if you plant now it will be a nice shot in the arm for you when you're 70 and the premium will keep the present older generation happy too.

I'm a bit biased, have some forestry on land that was so bad I wouldn't have got a weeks grazing out of it the last few summers. No regrets yet, try and get the max premium you can on it, with blocks of conifers that can be harvested altogether.

F.D

It is however a lifetime commitment though (curious as to how F.D. got out of it) and one I'd only look to as a diversification measure as opposed to an income. because I just dont trust that the government has the money to keep it going.[/QUOTE]

HI Johnboy, we paid back the forestry premium that was paid out, so the land is our to do with what we like now, any body can do this at any time, but after nine years you have to get a felling licence,
good to see you planting ash, all of ours was planted in confirs except for 5 acres which was a hugh mistake in our eyes.
i would also be wary of the future funding of forestry, another thing to keep in mind is it is not exempt from the income levy even though its tax free!
bouli73 i'm only 30 myself and i see where your coming from i'm lucky that i'm able to fit in farming with my work and my father is behind me trying to built it up i don't know where your based but land is renting at the same price or better per acre as the premium we are getting at the moment.
if you do go with forestry make sure you plant the right trees and get advice from as many people as possible

$kilkenny

great ting about planting trees is that after 5 years once the trees grow over the rushes and grass that it need little to no maintanence until inspection paths and thinnings are done so really a 20 year grant is all you need.

a return on 20 acres of land wouldnt be an awful lot yes i agree there and most people only grow a small amount 10-30 acres but actually planting alot of land 50 acres+ would give a very nice lump some by the end..

first thinnings would pay for the road with/without grant
2nd and 3rd thinnings would cover costs e.g maintanence,drainage etc if not all grant was used for this

clearfell is were it all comes out! nice lump some there now with the right management.

my uncle bought 200 acres of marginal land to plant just for his retirement fund and he also has timber harvesters and forwarders but anyway some is planted with ash about 20 acres and the rest is a mix of mainly sitka and some larch because of the visual effect from a distance....

i advise trying to plant as much ash as possible as it creates a nice return about the same if not better than softwood stands and grows slightly faster and for small amounts of land this is better as many people doing hardwood thinnings use chainsaws and various haulage methods rather than bringing in harvesters which would be more awkward etc

using chainsaws and small equipment is best as then only a small loading bay is needed,i have seen small ash stands with no road but used the council road and just picked it up over the ditch.

if you had 50 acres or even more toplant from ash that would make it a very nice stand of timber with ash being easier to maintain and the demand for ash butts