Good Behaviour Awards 2010

AlekSmart

Reading this account of a group of West Dubliners on a Day Out-West and their interaction with some fellow EU citizens en route...I was struck by the final few words....

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/courts/gang-tortured-elderly-couple-with-stun-gun-hurley-knives-2376135.html

Judge Anthony Kennedy said the burglary was "as lawless and vicious" as he had seen in over 40 years of dealing with criminal behaviour.

Judge Kennedy suspended the last two years of each of the men's sentences on grounds of good behaviour.

Aisling Kiernan`s article does`nt elaborate on the Judges decision,however I felt the sentences were quite appropriate without any need to offer a reduction.

I`m also somewhat bemused as to what period the suspension related to...is the Judge assuming they will be of "Good Behaviour" into the future or has he taken their past lives into the equation ?

The general policy relating to Sentencing in our Courts is as confused and arcane as it could possibly be,with few "non-legal" people having any real appreciation of how the process operates.

Perhaps it`s time for a political input to deliver clearer sentencing guidelines to the Judiciary in the absence of any real clarity from themselves ?

OhNoYouDidn't

They got 10 and 12 years for a robbery, a nasty one, but that seems like a fair punishment.

I assume the suspension was on the basis of their behaviour on remand as opposed to remission.

Not quite sure what your point is. That there should be a change in sentencing because you don't understand legal terminology?

AlekSmart

I assume the suspension was on the basis of their behaviour on remand as opposed to remission.

Not quite sure what your point is. That there should be a change in sentencing because you don't understand legal terminology?

Thanks for the clarification OhNoYouDidn`t,useful as it is I`m afraid that from the original article I can`t assume that your assumption is correct.

The terminology is`nt a real problem,but I do believe we need far more clarity on sentencing policy or the constituent elements of whatever formulates it.

For example,one explaination I have been offered for the "Good Behaviour" remission is that by giving this,the sentencing Judge is pre-empting an appeal as to severity of sentence...that`sounds somewhat far-fetched but in the present environment perhaps it`s a runner ?

I`m of the belief that the sentence should be based solely upon the Crime committed,and in this case I see the original tarriff as reasonable.

Behaviour whilst on remand should not come into the equation at all in my opinion.

Het-Field

As far as I am aware the suspended two years hinges on good behaviour on the part of the guilty individuals over the next ten years. Should they transgress the law while inside prison, or disrupt prison life on a serious or repeated basis, I believe the final two years can be activated. I have never heard of good behaviour on remand as a reason for reducing sentences. Further, it is unclear whether the individuals were on remand at all.

The word suspended suggests that these years may be subsequently activated. If it was based on time spent on remand then the two years would no longer hang over the condemned parties. The article seems to be concluded in a poor fashion, and I think it was a lax attitude by the author which has given rise to confusion. It is unclear whether the individuals were on remand at all.

johnnyskeleton

AlekSmart wrote: »

Reading this account of a group of West Dubliners on a Day Out-West and their interaction with some fellow EU citizens en route...I was struck by the final few words....

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/courts/gang-tortured-elderly-couple-with-stun-gun-hurley-knives-2376135.html



Aisling Kiernan`s article does`nt elaborate on the Judges decision,however I felt the sentences were quite appropriate without any need to offer a reduction.

I`m also somewhat bemused as to what period the suspension related to...is the Judge assuming they will be of "Good Behaviour" into the future or has he taken their past lives into the equation ?

Perhaps it`s time for a political input to deliver clearer sentencing guidelines to the Judiciary in the absence of any real clarity from themselves ?

No, it's time that court reporters started to actually understand their subject matter.

I wasn't there and can only guess, but I assume that the sentence was suspended "on condition that they keep the peace and be of good behaviour" which is the requirement of the law under section 99 of the Criminal Justice Act 2006.

It's ironic that your arugment that the legislature should intervene to make the law clearer is based on a statutory section that has introduced the uncertainty in the first place.

The general policy relating to Sentencing in our Courts is as confused and arcane as it could possibly be,with few "non-legal" people having any real appreciation of how the process operates.

Well answer me this - is the solution to this lack of understanding:
1) that you should go into court, see what is going on, ask questions and read up on the law; or
2) take snippets from newspapers and rant on boards.ie?

Dublinman12

3 absolute scumbags break into a house with an elderly couple armed with tasers!.....im pleased with the sentence....to be honest house breaking should carry a mandatory sentence anyway...cant understand the good behaviour part though:(.....that poor couple's lives are ruined...

AlekSmart

Johnnyskeleton Posted......

No, it's time that court reporters started to actually understand their subject matter.

I wasn't there and can only guess, but I assume that the sentence was suspended "on condition that they keep the peace and be of good behaviour" which is the requirement of the law under section 99 of the Criminal Justice Act 2006.

Well that`s the Indo`s Court Reporter put in her place,and rightly so it seems !

Would it be safe to assume that this is the element traditionally described as being "bound over"..?

Well answer me this - is the solution to this lack of understanding:
1) that you should go into court, see what is going on, ask questions and read up on the law; or
2) take snippets from newspapers and rant on boards.ie?

Oddly enough Johhnyskeleton I do,when my busy schedule allows,visit the Courts,although the new Courts of Justice location is somewhat less browser friendly in terms of location.

I might even consider,should redundancy visit my door,a second bite at the study of Law itself as you helpfully suggest...funding would be the key I suspect

So for the moment,sadly,I`ll have to take 2 please Bob

ThisRegard

What's the relevance on the "West" in Dubliners ? Is "West Dublin" a new county or something in which the OP (RTE are quite fond of it too) uses to distinguish the rest of Dublin from whenever anything bad happens there ?

johnnyskeleton

AlekSmart wrote: »

Oddly enough Johhnyskeleton I do,when my busy schedule allows,visit the Courts,although the new Courts of Justice location is somewhat less browser friendly in terms of location.

If you were in a criminal court before and paid attention, how come you didn't recognise this fairly common phrase as regards suspended sentences? Or is it that you didn't put 2 + 2 together.

AlekSmart

What's the relevance on the "West" in Dubliners ? Is "West Dublin" a new county or something in which the OP (RTE are quite fond of it too) uses to distinguish the rest of Dublin from whenever anything bad happens there ?

OOps my bad...I should perhaps have used "Fellow West Dubliners"...seeing as I live there also.

Although It does appear that Dublin Bus is attempting to put all that Compass Stuff to bed with it`s new Route Maps.....:)

If you were in a criminal court before and paid attention, how come you didn't recognise this fairly common phrase as regards suspended sentences? Or is it that you didn't put 2 + 2 together.

Many thanks for the clarification Johnnyskeleton,as you say,my attention span must have been waning,but my sums are ok thank God......