Extraction fees on top of Braces fees

John James OHara

I'm currently in the process of getting braces and have to have two teeth extracted to make room to align my teeth. I was a bit pissed when I learned I had to pay my normal dentist to remove these teeth considering the exorbitant fees my orthodontist was already charging. Is this a common occurrence? I was not made aware of this at the beginning of the process and there's probably not much I can do about it now. My orthodontist kind of holds all the cards considering I have a half finished job done!!

kkth0360

That's the ways things would normally work - most (if not all) orthodontists would refer the patient back to their general dentist to have any necessary extractions carried out.

However, it is very reasonable to expect to be made aware of this at the outset of treatment. I personally always mention it, and make sure the patient is fully aware of any necessary adjunctive treatments such as extractions, CT scans, bridges / implants etc, and their approximate costs.

In your case it would appear that there has been a breakdown in communication between you and your orthodontist in this regard, and it is understandable that you would be annoyed at being hit by this unforseen expense.

I would suggest that you discuss this with your orthodontist and see if there is anything that can be done. No orthodontist wants an unhappy patient, and in the circumstances perhaps he / she may be able to offer some kind of discount on your treatment fee to partially offset the extraction cost.

John James OHara

Perhaps it was just naivety on my behalf. It was mentioned that I would have to go to my dentist to get teeth extracted but I presumed that as this was a necessary element in my treatment, that the 4000 plus euros I was handing over would be going to cover that too. I'll know not to be as presumptious in future. Thanks for the reply.

fifofum

Orthodontists can only quote for their own work, braces.
It should have been made clearer that any accessory/outsourced treatment, surgery/extraction costs ect, are at the behest of the Oral Surgeon or General Dentist being referred to.

davo10

For God's sake, when you go to an orthodontist you expect to get your teeth straightened with ortho appliances, you don't expect him/her to do your fillings, extractions, cleaning etc, in 15 years of being a dentist I have never heard a patient complain that they were not told they would have to pay for pre appliance extractions by their dentist, it's a no brainer.

DaveTwenty7

I have had this and ended up doing the extractions for nothing rather than loose the patient :mad:

Saadyst

I'm getting ortho done and it's at a cost of €6500... the ortho made me aware that I'd have to get at least 2 wisdom teeth out, preferably 4... and on top of that, two more teeth in the upper arch.

It wasn't until I put my deposit down for the treatment, that I found out how expensive it is in Ireland to get wisdom teeth removed. I don't hold it against the ortho for not telling me any guideline prices for this, he's been nothing but helpful - but it would have definitely factored into my choice of treatment.

Looking at around another €1000 (all 4, after negotiating), and I'm not sure how much it'll be for the 2 in the upper arch.

John James OHara

davo10 wrote: »

For God's sake, when you go to an orthodontist you expect to get your teeth straightened with ortho appliances, you don't expect him/her to do your fillings, extractions, cleaning etc, in 15 years of being a dentist I have never heard a patient complain that they were not told they would have to pay for pre appliance extractions by their dentist, it's a no brainer.

I didn't expect him to do my fillings and cleaning. I was given a quote to have my teeth straightened and wasn't informed that all the necessary elements to have said teeth straightened weren't included in that quote. Having extractions done was a necessary element in having my teeth aligned. Mentioning cleaning and fillings is unnecessary hyperbole.

davo10

You were quoted for the ortho treatment, anything not on this was not included in the price, ie extractions.

btkm8unsl0w5r4

This is standard. Orthodontist generall send the extractions to general dentists. The extra cost would be around 120 - 180 euro depending.

John James OHara

Raphael Curved Bowling wrote: »

This is standard. Orthodontist generall send the extractions to general dentists. The extra cost would be around 120 - 180 euro depending.

Fair enough, it may be standard, and that fact would obviously be a 'no-brainer' for someone dealing with orthodontics everyday (ie, the orthodontist), but for those who only ever deal with them once in their life (ie the majority of people!), it would be nice to be informed of these things at the start. It's easy when you are immersed in a particular field to take things as a given that the layman wouldn't.
Most of you probably don't have problems with this as you inform your clients (patients?) of this at the start so fair play. I don't want to give the wrong impression of my dentist, he's a top guy, so maybe this was just an oversight. Anyway, hopefully my dentist will give me the teeth that are pulled and I can gather some of the money back from under my pillow.

kkth0360

Unfortunately, I heard a rumour that the Tooth Fairy's funding is to be cut dramatically in the upcoming Budget, so I think you'll be out of luck!

davo10

Rumour has it the TF has been NAMA'd, Santa is not answering calls from Charlie Bird, RBS have a lean on the North Pole, I heard they are trying to sell it to a couple of stupid americans who just got their arses kicked out of Liverpool.

btkm8unsl0w5r4

I heard that becuase the tooth fairly would not get out of bed for less than 1000 teeth, that a certain corporate dental chain has bought the fairy out and has installed low cost ogres in her place.

John James OHara

I may hang onto them for a few months as we may be heading back towards 2008 prices:

beam me up scottie

Saadyst wrote: »

I'm getting ortho done and it's at a cost of €6500... the ortho made me aware that I'd have to get at least 2 wisdom teeth out, preferably 4... and on top of that, two more teeth in the upper arch.

It wasn't until I put my deposit down for the treatment, that I found out how expensive it is in Ireland to get wisdom teeth removed. I don't hold it against the ortho for not telling me any guideline prices for this, he's been nothing but helpful - but it would have definitely factored into my choice of treatment.

Looking at around another €1000 (all 4, after negotiating), and I'm not sure how much it'll be for the 2 in the upper arch.

You are paying too much for your orthodontics and the extractions, shop around! It can be done for 4000 for the orthodontics and there are plenty of Oral surgeons now that will charge less than 1000....phone using golden pages look under orthodontists.

btkm8unsl0w5r4

beam me up scottie wrote: »

You are paying too much for your orthodontics and the extractions, shop around! It can be done for 4000 for the orthodontics and there are plenty of Oral surgeons now that will charge less than 1000....phone using golden pages look under orthodontists.

Seriously you have no idea of the complexity of the case, its not like all braces are the same, its not a mars bar your buying. This could be a very difficult case, it like saying 1000 euro is too much to paint a house....well depend on the size of the house. Anyone who give a definite quote over the phone without examination is a wasting your time.

John James OHara

Raphael Curved Bowling wrote: »

Seriously you have no idea of the complexity of the case, its not like all braces are the same, its not a mars bar your buying. This could be a very difficult case, it like saying 1000 euro is too much to paint a house....well depend on the size of the house. Anyone who give a definite quote over the phone without examination is a wasting your time.

One thing that was difficult when deciding on picking an orthodontist was the fact that it was very difficult to 'shop' around. The €150 plus consultation fee kind of restricts the number of guys you will look for a better price off. It's not like getting a quote for building an extension where a number of guys will give you their estimates for nothing.

Saadyst

beam me up scottie wrote: »

You are paying too much for your orthodontics and the extractions, shop around! It can be done for 4000 for the orthodontics and there are plenty of Oral surgeons now that will charge less than 1000....phone using golden pages look under orthodontists.

Yeah I appreciate that, but I'm not getting the standard train tracks.. getting Lingual on the upper arch... standard would be around €3200 which I think is reasonable enough.

My point in mentioning the amount was just to highlight that at such a cost, you would imagine I would have been informed of additional costs on top of that since it's already such a large amount, going further may not have been an option.

And yeah, paid a €95 consult fee.. and I would have had no problem checking with other orthos... aside from the fee, there is usually a few weeks waiting time for an appointment, and then a few weeks beyond that for their analysis and reccommendation.

chiefbrody1974

well OP.speaking as someone who had braces at 30 for 36 months, with 4 extractions, I can confirm that this is normally the case. My orthodontist (who is a prick by the way, but thats not the issue) took 2 teeth out monday and one on tuesday. The fourth had to be done by a surgeon who came in once a week or something, italian lady, lovely lady by the way.

The 3 extractions cost me 100 euro each and the surgical one was 160.00, go figure. then that weekend I had to pony up 1000.00 euro on top for my braces. The adjustments cost me 90.00 euro (every month) for 3 years and finally 150 for a retainer. so the guts of 5 grand. I was told by friends that he took the piss on the length of time and is renowned for doing it. some months he'd tighten them and send me on my way and when id get home, he would have missed a bracket, thus impeding my progress, but he still got his money!!

This whole industry is a racket I think and though I agreew this is based only on experience, at the end of the day its a business. Sure I notice now that we've more trouble with out teeth than ever,sensitivity, weak enamel, dull teeth all this crap. Bottom line teeth need to be clean to prevent bacteria and susbesquent tarter build up, this is my experience. So now how do we create a demand for our expensive products as a business??? we scare people by creating a demand to meet our supply!! now its all expensive mouthwash for emamel care!! whitening toothpaste for a tenner. This patricular concept was covered in my brothers marketing degree as a classic model to create and supply a product. Create thge need by paying some dentist thousands to endorse Enamel paste!! to all the honest dentist out there, Ive met some, they always recommend soft brush twice a day with some alchohol free rinse if you have to, and of course floss!!! honest dentist, few and far between!

Rant over.

fifofum

It's true; no-one ever died from having crooked teeth!
However (as someone who has had crooked teeth themselves), straight teeth look better, bite better, are easier to clean& maintain, add immeasurably to your self-confidence, and will be more straight-forward to replace if/when the need arises. If you only had a very mild crowding corrected, it's hard to understand what value us less-fortunate patients put on our ortho treatment!

Big_G

chiefbrody1974 wrote: »

3 extractions cost me 100 euro each and the surgical one was 160.00, go figure. then that weekend I had to pony up 1000.00 euro on top for my braces. The adjustments cost me 90.00 euro (every month) for 3 years and finally 150 for a retainer. so the guts of 5 grand. I was told by friends that he took the piss on the length of time and is renowned for doing it. some months he'd tighten them and send me on my way and when id get home, he would have missed a bracket, thus impeding my progress, but he still got his money!!

I'm sorry to hear that you had a bad experience. Most orthodontists will agree to a fixed price before treatment starts so that it costs the same no matter how long treatment takes.

chiefbrody1974 wrote: »

whole industry is a racket I think and though I agreew this is based only on experience, at the end of the day its a business. Sure I notice now that we've more trouble with out teeth than ever,sensitivity, weak enamel, dull teeth all this crap. Bottom line teeth need to be clean to prevent bacteria and susbesquent tarter build up, this is my experience. So now how do we create a demand for our expensive products as a business??? we scare people by creating a demand to meet our supply!! now its all expensive mouthwash for emamel care!! whitening toothpaste for a tenner. This patricular concept was covered in my brothers marketing degree as a classic model to create and supply a product. Create thge need by paying some dentist thousands to endorse Enamel paste!! to all the honest dentist out there, Ive met some, they always recommend soft brush twice a day with some alchohol free rinse if you have to, and of course floss!!! honest dentist, few and far between!

Rant over.

Irish dentists endorse these products for free. It is against the advertising code for them to accept gratuities for these ads. The Irish Dental Association endorses only two products as far as I know, Listerine and Colgate Total toothpaste. I do agree with you that many of these products are created and then a demand follows. This is not dentists but the dental product companies who do this. In fact, if you search back through the threads in this section, you will hear dentists rubbishing a lot of the marketing surrounding these products which in many cases is at best inaccurate, at worst outright lying. Not the fault of dentists in general though. I think the opposite, dishonest dentists few and far between.

day dreamer

Chief

I would agree and so would every dentist that the best thing for oral hygiene is a soft brush, any fluoride tooth paste and floss. Look back over the threads and there are many examples of this simple and effective advice. the demand for whitening tooth pastes and miracle rinses is not from dentists.

As Big g says, most dentists are honest.

John James
Any orthodontist i know will give you a fee at the start for the treatment and it is the same fee even if things take longer. It is also made clear that any extractions or fillings would be extra and provided by your own dentist.

Lingual appliances are very expensive and time consuming to work with. If the cost of the extractions is an issue, then consider standard appliances on the outside. Ok, they wont look as good but will give you a better outcome and your orthodontist will be much more experienced with them,

chiefbrody1974

I know its off subject and I guess lots of you guys are dentists. Question. My mate had braces for 4 years and like me has very large triangular teeth, quite prominent. this was years ago and he wastn quite happy with the result so now at 26, he's getting a six-nine month set on again to pull back his top, more prominent teeth. He has great teet but when he showed me his braces I noticed his bottom teeth had some recession on them, apparently it's from the braces. In adults, depending on gums type, the braces can cause trauma to the gums which can cause recession apparently. I noticed that on some of my teeth and I had them for 3 years and got them at age 30. IM not asking for medical advice, just puttin it out there, anyone ever hear of that? I googled it and it seems very very common, Adult ortho can be tough on the gums. Although saying that, I opted for the firmest brush possible whilst having my braces, thinking that firmer would clean better, added to this, tons of whiteneing and arm and hammer 3-4 times a day, with vigourous 45 degree brushing, I guess some recession would be expected, but his seemed fairly bad to me, you could realy see the yellow dentin exposed. His Ortho said his teeth are very good, not to worry sort of thing, strange. My girlfriends dentist said if youve nice teeth with minimal fillings at say 35-40yrs old, then all you should do is look after your gums, genetics plays a big role here.

beam me up scottie

chiefbrody1974 wrote: »

I know its off subject and I guess lots of you guys are dentists. Question. My mate had braces for 4 years and like me has very large triangular teeth, quite prominent. this was years ago and he wastn quite happy with the result so now at 26, he's getting a six-nine month set on again to pull back his top, more prominent teeth. He has great teet but when he showed me his braces I noticed his bottom teeth had some recession on them, apparently it's from the braces. In adults, depending on gums type, the braces can cause trauma to the gums which can cause recession apparently. I noticed that on some of my teeth and I had them for 3 years and got them at age 30. IM not asking for medical advice, just puttin it out there, anyone ever hear of that? I googled it and it seems very very common, Adult ortho can be tough on the gums. Although saying that, I opted for the firmest brush possible whilst having my braces, thinking that firmer would clean better, added to this, tons of whiteneing and arm and hammer 3-4 times a day, with vigourous 45 degree brushing, I guess some recession would be expected, but his seemed fairly bad to me, you could realy see the yellow dentin exposed. His Ortho said his teeth are very good, not to worry sort of thing, strange. My girlfriends dentist said if youve nice teeth with minimal fillings at say 35-40yrs old, then all you should do is look after your gums, genetics plays a big role here.

Hey Cheif, sounds like you have had alot of advice....
I have to say every case is individual and there as you can see by your many different examples many different reasons for recession etc. So you have to take it all with a pinch of salt.
In general Orthodontics DOESN'T cause recession and in general Teeth can't be fixed in 6 months. Unless it is an exteremely mild case.
So do let us know how your friend gets on, 6 month braces is the new big buzz. But unless there really is a tooth fairy this magic is black!

Plek Trum

I don't imagine the braces caused the problems - much more probable that the way he cared for his teeth while they were on that did it.

I had braces on as a 28 year old until 32 - warned time and time again to brush slowly and gently with a soft toothbrush or an electric brush, use interdental brushes and the most important.. floss.
Effort? Yes. Results? Definately.

Visited the hygienist regularly as advised and my teeth and gums are probably the healthiest they have ever been.Tell your friend to ask the orthodontist or his nurse for oral hygiene instructions and a demonstration. Its worth the effort.

btkm8unsl0w5r4

There a 3 month braces now......I hope they cost 12 times less than a 3 year course.