Tania Kobia Twist Barrels Review (Discusssion)

Blazer

Just putting together a review on these barrels.
Got one for my G&P Magpul M4 and Classic Army M24 sniper rifle.

Quick bit about what a twist barrel is.

These inner barrels shoot STRAIGHT. They have an extremely predictable, flat and straight flight trajectory. Where standard hop up will cause the BB to gently curve up before dropping, TWIST inner barrels will cause the BB to go extremely straight for an even further effective range before dropping.
Looking inside the barrel you can see the twist pattern inside it which causes the air to follow these grooves. As a result the bb can only go in one direction, directly through the middle.
You can only use twist barrels with a fps limit of 330fps. Any higher will negate the accuracy and a drop off in fps as the bb is going too track for the twist barrel to properly control it.

All upgrades performed by Deburca

M4 - Barrel increased from 287mm to 459mm.
I will put up pics later this week.
So far I haven't been out skirmishing with it but from testing in my closed off backyard accuracy is top notch.
From approx 40 yards I can consistently hit a thistle growing in the backyard with every bb. (.2g).
At a mate's house a tree (again approx 40-45 yards) with a large leaf (approx 6cm x 6cm) I was able to put every bb through the leaf without fail.
So far accuracy has been excellent.
This weekend I'll be out at LAC testing out both the M4 and the M24 (using a 510mm twist barrel) and am anxious to see how much of a distance increase I get.


I'll post more at the weekend and throw up some pics as well as tidy this post up

The_ChiefDUB

I put a TK twist barrel in to my KWA M4 a few months back despite the incredulous responses that I received when I mentioned I was thinking of it. Most people laughed at the idea that it would give any improvement. I found them all to be very wrong. Both accuracy and range were increased greatly turning the M4 in to a great sniping weapon.

bullets

The idea behind the twist barrels is to get the round to travel down
the center of the barrel correct ?

ie its not attempting to spin the round its attempting to keep the round from
dragging or going against one particular side of the barrel and removing
inconstancies while the BB is still traveling inside the barrel ?


Be nice to see what effect Glass BBs would add for target practice.
Madbull have released some 0.28's recently that may be nice to try out.
(for times when your plinking and **NOT** skirmishing)

Getting a gun, mag and a large supply so you dont run out of these
to use in conjunction with a twist barrel would be nice also




Damn would love one if they worked well at 1j
http://www.rap4.com/paintball/store/font-color008080rap4-airsoftairgunfont-rap4-bbpellet-airgun-c-490_323.html
http://www.rap4.com/paintball/os/rap4-airfin-bag-of-1000
~B

The_ChiefDUB

The twist is there to create an airstream around the BB to prevent it from bouncing around quite so much. On a normal barrel the BB can bounce off any part of the inner barrel and so you cannot accurately predict where it will leave the barrel. With the twist the area on which it can leave is reduced to something like six points so you can more accurately predict where it will leave from and therefore where it will be going.
At least that's my understanding of it - I could be off a bit.

evilrobotshane

Since Twist barrels are wider, what are those of y'all using them clocking your guns at now? There should be a speed drop, like. I've been using one for a while and can't say I've found any particular increase in accuracy, firing at about 325 fps.

Chuck the Buck

I have one of them in my M4 at the mo. When I put it in first there was what I can only describe as a cataclysmic drop in fps. Much tooling about later I got the fps up to about 085-0.9J and it was crap, no range even with the hop up on. Then for some obscure reason it decided to work perfectly, accurate and with great range (with only a hit of hob on), but it then went pants again (fps stayed the same).

The jury's still out on whether its ultimately any better than the prommy 6.03mm I had in there before.

Blazer

I'll be interested to see how my M24 turns out..
I sold my previous one which had a KM tightbore in it and fantastic range on it..
I'm hoping the twist barrel will match it with better accuracy..

Gatling

from what ive been reading on various forums aegs tend to loose the effect of the barrels due to the the way air pressure is more violent /instable to push bbs out on full auto , as compared ta say a bolt action single shot
waiting on a twist for my tm l96 to come back on stock so i can pick one up

The_ChiefDUB

Immediately after installing mine I had exactly the same problem but it turned out it was the piston that had crapped out on me thanks to a certain retailer and their trusty drill.

Stercus Accidit

I'm still very skeptical of these things, I look forward to hearing more of you guys experiences with them.

Stonewolf

Gatling wrote: »

from what ive been reading on various forums aegs tend to loose the effect of the barrels due to the the way air pressure is more violent /instable to push bbs out on full auto , as compared ta say a bolt action single shot
waiting on a twist for my tm l96 to come back on stock so i can pick one up

So those of us who prefer semi would perhaps get better use out of it? I've a 6.03 Prommy in my G36 and it can still be fairly inaccurate at range even with .25s

Gatling

apparrently so

Stercus Accidit

You have to remember gearbox vibration and a loosely held barrel can throw off accuracy as can a poor hop rubber.

I got great accuracy with a madbull hop and promy in my ak74 as the barrel had to be tapped in with a hammer and that aeg is so solid anyway, the accuracy has died down a bit with the hop wearing a little and needs a full teardown to get it back.

Clean good barrel and good hop and a solid fixing make for great accuracy, maybe the TK barrels air cushion idea works but at the cost of FPS I'd need to see one out perform the standard setup I had which was great accuracy wise.

Check to see if there is any movement in your barrel in its place and wrap it with some teflon tape to tighten it up if needs be.

Stonewolf

It's got a small screw to lock it in place, it's probably the stock rubber (my guarder wore out).

That's off topic though ...

JonnyTwoCombs

evilrobotshane wrote: »

Since Twist barrels are wider, what are those of y'all using them clocking your guns at now? There should be a speed drop, like. I've been using one for a while and can't say I've found any particular increase in accuracy, firing at about 325 fps.

I’ve had a TK twist in my AEG for about 6mths, after installation the FPS dropped to about .6. After a bit of jigging around it was raised and is hitting .89 / .92 .

Although, the range hasn’t (noticeably) improved, the grouping of shots is much tighter.

evilrobotshane

What I'm kind of wondering is whether they're supposed to be outputting close to the Joule themselves, or if the talk about their needing to be under a Joule means that you take a gun that's firing at the Joule, swap in the Hop-Twist barrel, the output drops to .6 or whatever and THAT's where it's supposed to be. Output from the gearbox that'd normally provide a Joule being what they're designed for, rather than a BB coming out of the Hop-Twist barrel at a Joule, which requires more power coming out of the gearbox nozzle.

JonnyTwoCombs

evilrobotshane wrote: »

What I'm kind of wondering is whether they're supposed to be outputting close to the Joule themselves, or if the talk about their needing to be under a Joule means that you take a gun that's firing at the Joule, swap in the Hop-Twist barrel, the output drops to .6 or whatever and THAT's where it's supposed to be. Output from the gearbox that'd normally provide a Joule being what they're designed for, rather than a BB coming out of the Hop-Twist barrel at a Joule, which requires more power coming out of the gearbox nozzle.

I’m not too sure where the ‘need’ to use these in sub joule devices came from, but would imagine it’s based upon the restrictions in the Japanese market. I haven’t heard or read of anyone using them in higher power set ups.

What is unusual is the dramatic drop in FPS!

Although, the TK is meant to be Hop / Twist I still use the ‘traditional’ hop up set up of rubber + nub. Has anyone else tried this combo?

Blazer

there shouldn't be a dramatic drop in fps..at most maybe 10-15fps.
I chron'ed my AEG and it turned out ehobby had never downgraded so it was firing at approx 355.
With the twist barrel in it this dropped to about 345 so I had Deburca downgrade it, needed a new o-ring so once that was done (got the whole piston head changed) it's now firing at 317fps approx and more than matching the distance I was getting originally on it.
Have both the M4 and M24 back so will test at the weekend.
Need to finetune the hopup on the M24 for accuracy etc.

tudenham10

I'm sure I'll be corrected on this if I'm wrong but I think the reason for the reason for the drop in fps is that the diameter of the barrel is 6.08?

I have one of them myself and while it did cause a drop in in fps (from recollection about 0.2J) the grouping of shots, especially on semi, is excellent.

I'm not sure if I'd buy another one though as, in my own opinion, I would rate the prommy tightbores equally highly.

Stealthirl

i put a TK in my glock along with a PDI piston head and the fps went up a bit [more due to the new piston geting a tighter air seal i guess] but my groupings are tighter at 20M

THE MINDER

I've tested three different lengths of these-363mm/459mm/509mm in various aegs with different configurations of hopup chamber and rubbers.I
got a drop of fps every time(I'm with tudenaham on the diameter idea-makes perfect sense)-not a problem to rectify in and of itself but another problem arose for me was an instability in fps of between 5-15fps on different shots.I like to keep mine 320-325fps so at times it would stray a little over the legal limit.Given this and the fact I did'nt see any appreciable increase in range from standard type tightbores I've personally abandoned the idea.Could be of course that for players using a lot of single shot or sniping there may well be some benifit.Personally a good systema 6.04,guarder 6.02 or madbull 6.03 does it for me.

Blazer

hmmm..a lot of the comments are making me sorry that someone else didn't create a thread like this before
Ah well...you'll never know if you don't try.
I'll get pics up tonight....I'll have to get the pictures of the barrels from other sites as they're already installed in the M4/M24.
Off to a game in LAC on Saturday so eager to test these out..especially as it's been about 8 weeks since I've skirmished due to work commitments.

evilrobotshane

Even if they turn out to be crap they're worth owning, because you can look through them at people and it looks like looking at James Bond.

War Machine 539

Was wondering wether barrel rifling would make a difference, made a differnce on real guns . . . . . Surprised no-one thought of this sooner!

evilrobotshane

It's not rifling though, it's just a similar-looking system to create an air cushion around the BB to keep it from knocking against the inside of the barrel so much. It doesn't make the BB spin on the axis rifling does.

War Machine 539

Pedantics aside on whether its rifling or not, does it actually work?

Blazer

So tested the M4 (lost the allen key to adjust the hopup on the M24).

Distance is really around the same...fps is rated at 317fps and is very consistent...the magpul g&p's are well known for this. Deburca upgraded this for me and he was extremely impressed with the internals in it and the consistency in the fps. It only varied by 4 fps at most. (Of course this was before the downtime but I've no reason to doubt it's not the same now).
Accuracy is phenomenal, was testing it on a few targets at LAC and every one hit the same target time after time. I was even putting them through a 50mm diameter hole in one target from about 30 yards away so well impressed with them.
Not so sure on the range yet, it doesn't look have to increased...or decreased for the matter, however since I was using both .2 and .25 bbs the hopup wasn't 100% adjusted.
So far I'm happy with it. I also picked up another G&P Magpul at the weekend so it'll be fairly easy to do a comparison on the distance between them.

The M24 sniper rifle will be the real test, the previous one I had (which I sold) had a KM tightbore, systema hopup buckling and PDI hopup.
Even though it only fired approx 277-290fps it still far outranged any other AEG I've seen so far.
My current version is all standard apart from the twist barrel.
So it'll be a close enough comparison to see if this version gets even close to my previous one.
Hope to have it for 2 weeks time once I get off my ass and pick up an allen key for it.

scar 101

if u want u can test it between ur old one and ur new one right after i get the screws fixed.

Blazer

scar 101 wrote: »

if u want u can test it between ur old one and ur new one right after i get the screws fixed.

omg...what did you do to it? :eek:

scar 101

the screws in the trigger assembly came loose and i tightened them up......they just fell out the thread is gone so i have to get a re-threading tool thats why u haven't seen me at lac with it yet. i haven't got to use it since:(

Blazer

scar 101 wrote: »

the screws in the trigger assembly came loose and i tightened them up......they just fell out the thread is gone so i have to get a re-threading tool thats why u haven't seen me at lac with it yet. i haven't got to use it since:(

shouldn't have came loose...they were tightened all well up and locktited them..u were at it weren't you

scar 101

Sc@recrow wrote: »

shouldn't have came loose...they were tightened all well up and locktited them..u were at it weren't you

kinda took it apart but ya the thread is gone in it for sure.but planing to have it back up and running for the Halloween game at lac so I should be there if ya want to test it then.

Blazer

Well after a few more skirmishes I'm finding that accuracy is top notch but fps drops at firing auto so not really suited to skirmishes as such unless you plan to play a sniper role with an AEG as backup...with the silencer on it the sound is fairly muffled more than 20 feet away so you could get away with it.

I'm tempted now to get a tightbore for it and see how that works out.