Are there any companies that...

Atavan-Halen

Hi, just wondering if there are any tv companies that offer some sort of service that doesn't require a cable or satellite dish? Reason being the apartment I live in has no cable running from the main source out on the main road to the apartment and would be a massive job to put one in. Also I can't put up a satellite dish either so that's not an option. At the moment we can only get RTE 1&2, TV3 and TG4 using rabbit ears in the back of the tv

Thanks!

Mountjoy Mugger

Your only other option is, if you have a landline, to get IPTV. Check out www.magnet.ie

watty

Really only works on Fibre.

Technically if you are on a rare as hen's teeth magnet LLU exchange and phone line is less than 800m long they might be able to do IPTV, if they have IPTV gear in that exchange.

Set a dish indoors looking out a South East Window. It will work through glass as long as it's not energy saver coated like K glass.

STB

atavan-halen wrote: »

Hi, just wondering if there are any tv companies that offer some sort of service that doesn't require a cable or satellite dish? Reason being the apartment I live in has no cable running from the main source out on the main road to the apartment and would be a massive job to put one in. Also I can't put up a satellite dish either so that's not an option. At the moment we can only get RTE 1&2, TV3 and TG4 using rabbit ears in the back of the tv

Thanks!

Are you an apartment owner ?

If so it is quite unusual that you have no service given that most apartment complexes are prewired for shared services. It is quite simple to set up a free to air system for the whole complex. You do not need to be running cable from streets (UPC/NTL I presume you are talking about - DO NOT EVEN CONSIDER IT!). The reason your apartment complex is prewired is to off a variety of options. If you look closely in your apartment you will find a TV point - yeah ?

If you want more info on setting up an FTA system I will post more.

paulm17781

STB wrote: »

Are you an apartment owner ?

If so it is quite unusual that you have no service given that most apartment complexes are prewired for shared services. It is quite simple to set up a free to air system for the whole complex. You do not need to be running cable from streets (UPC/NTL I presume you are talking about - DO NOT EVEN CONSIDER IT!). The reason your apartment complex is prewired is to off a variety of options. If you look closely in your apartment you will find a TV point - yeah ?

If you want more info on setting up an FTA system I will post more.

Presuming UPC is in place, would your idea not block access to it for all? The broadband is the main thing people may want from UPC.

johnboysligo

atavan-halen wrote: »

I live in has no cable running from the main source out on the main road to the apartment and would be a massive job to put one in.

How many people live in your building? if you have enough people ringing UPC they could work something out.
UPC want your money makes sense that maybe there's a slim chance they would cable your building if there's enough paying customers interested.

Captain Commie

as far as satellite goes, there is a sky offering designed for apartments, tho you will need others in the building and the backing of the management company to get it sorted

lensman

if your apartment is facing roughly south east you might be still able to go down the satellite route,..there are dishes that dont require you to drill into your walls,...you can hide/position them on your patio area,..there are also dishes that look like a patio lamp here http://www.ddelec.com/digiglobe.htm
see the full thread below
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055132609&page=15

Atavan-Halen

STB wrote: »

Are you an apartment owner ?

If so it is quite unusual that you have no service given that most apartment complexes are prewired for shared services. It is quite simple to set up a free to air system for the whole complex. You do not need to be running cable from streets (UPC/NTL I presume you are talking about - DO NOT EVEN CONSIDER IT!). The reason your apartment complex is prewired is to off a variety of options. If you look closely in your apartment you will find a TV point - yeah ?

If you want more info on setting up an FTA system I will post more.

No just renting and yes there is a tv point but it's basically just a box on the wall. No wiring behind it.

johnboysligo wrote: »

How many people live in your building? if you have enough people ringing UPC they could work something out.
UPC want your money makes sense that maybe there's a slim chance they would cable your building if there's enough paying customers interested.

See the thing is every other apartment in the complex has cable bar ours. Ours is the only one that has no cable running from the main source, if that makes any sense :P

johnboysligo

atavan-halen wrote: »

See the thing is every other apartment in the complex has cable bar ours. Ours is the only one that has no cable running from the main source, if that makes any sense :P

well you could try contacting who ever manages your building asking for an explanation. they are going to have more info than boards.ie members

STB

paulm17781 wrote: »

Presuming UPC is in place, would your idea not block access to it for all? The broadband is the main thing people may want from UPC.

Yes it would. NO COMPANY should have a monopoly on services. I am talking about Sky Conway/UPC etc.

What I am talking about is connecting people to fta satellite from 28.2 by giving them a feed from a satellite dish. In the event that apartment owners want pay services they can then subscribe to Sky for their proprietry box.

Using cable for broadband over its traditional use for television is tail wagging the dog scenario. Thats not why apartments are prewired in the first place. They are prewired for TV. There are plenty of methods for broadband delivery.

Monopolies in apartment complexes should not exist, its illegal as well as downright stupid.

To the OP, given you dont own the apartment you wont have much say. But you should get onto your landlord or round up likeminded tenants. Management companies are only as good as the people running them.

watty

you can even do Satellite IF and UPC Broadband on the same coax.

Wire every apartment with a minimum of two coax from Sat Distribution (for PVR) and one cable can have Aerial also with FM, DAB, Analogue and DTT and the other cable can have UPC TV/Broadband.

Split the Apartment Satellite Multi-switches in two groups, using type with PASSIVE Terrestrial. I've tested this:
UPC 5MHz to 65MHz (transmit), Receive: 87MHz to 108MHz and 110MHz to 870MHz. The UPC cable drives the "passive Terrestrial" 17th input on Multiswitch via a 12dB trunk amplifier to overcome 16 way spllitter loss.

Satellite is 950MHz to 2100MHz on the Coax.
A splitter / Diplexer inside wall box with Cable & Sat F-Connector is €3.

The second group of Multiswitches has Roof aerials for FM-VHF, DAB/BandIII TV and UHF Analogue/DTT with suitable combiners. A Cable TV trunk amplifier(s) is used to drive each "passive terrestrial" input multiswitch and others for splitters to drive all the amps.

Apartment wall box has Cable, Sat1, TV/Radio, Sat2 outlets.

Real choice. The Sat has 28.2E on 1 (so Sky boxes work), 19E, 13E and 9E on 2,3 & 4 or as desired. Probably use a separate 80cm to 110cm dish for each feed, so 28E, 42E, 19E & 30W is possible. No-one can see four dishes on middle of apartment roof.

You can easily drive 1000 apartments. Ideally run 4 feeds (2 each of above to two rooms).

Distribution box & the two groups of Multiswitch at each floor driven by trunk splitters (11dB tap, 1.5dB pass) for 16 x sat, + 1 Aerial trunk cables (PF125) from roof and 1 x UPC cable from Ground. Up to 11 floors is easy ...

Done at build time this adds less than €300 per apartment!

Each apartment should have 2 x Cat5e from the per floor distribution box to allow choice of FTTC or ADSL2+ or VDSL2 Magnet/Digiweb/Eircom.

The Digiweb Metro can even share the Terrestrial Aeria/ Sat combo coax for about 64 users with single outdoor Metro radio as its downstream link on coax "lurks" just below the UHF TV and above Band III, Upstream is 15MHz to 45MHz band.

Unfortunately due to power limitations a Digiweb Metro outdoor Radio can really only manage one physical uplink channel. This limits the users per shared Radio set to a fraction of what the mast can do.

STB

I was keeping it simple Watty!

The main point was: get an independent Sat Installer in to wire the whole place. Not Sky/Sky Conway/UPC. Give the basic feeds from 28.2 and let people decide what they want after that.

Freddie59

STB wrote: »

Using cable for broadband over its traditional use for television is tail wagging the dog scenario.

So let me get this straight - according to you, cable should not be used for Broadband because it was originally only designed for TV?:rolleyes:

'Pre-wired for TV'. So no company should be allowed develop additional (along with faster and cheaper) services - even if they have the capacity to do so?????!!!!!

If that's the case Eircom shouldn't be carrying broadband as the lines were only designed for phones; the ESB shouldn't be providing Fibre backhaul; heck - why not go all the way and let's have 405-line Black and White TV back!:D

it is, my friend, a natural evolution of technology. And a very good one at that. Who else (apart from FTTH) is even capable of offering 30 Meg broadband at present? Along with VoIP and TV over the same cable? Are you even actually serious???!!!!

Freddie59

STB wrote: »

I was keeping it simple Watty!

The main point was: get an independent Sat Installer in to wire the whole place. Not Sky/Sky Conway/UPC. Give the basic feeds from 28.2 and let people decide what they want after that.

It is not just about TV anymore. Services are converging. Lines are being blurred between types of technology. TV is beginning to trail a distant second to the Internet in the majority of homes.

STB

Freddie59 wrote: »

It is not just about TV anymore. Services are converging. Lines are being blurred between types of technology. TV is beginning to trail a distant second to the Internet in the majority of homes.

You sound like an IPTV owner! They wish that this was they way.

In an apartment complex - the cable prewiring is for TV not broadband. It could be used for both. But the whole idea is that people have access to free tv OR pay TV and at least are given that choice. IPTV is not going to solve that as its ANOTHER PAY SERVICE.

People who talk of convergence really havent a breeze what they are talking about.

Terrestrial TV and Satellite TV will continue to be the forefront of DTH delivery for a long time to come. Given the majority of this country are still using close to dial up speeds on broadband, IPTV wont be taking off here anytime soon. Besides the fact that there is enough FTA TV on Sat and FTA Digital on DTT all receivable on one HD box in one channel list means the days that the IPTV owners are counting to a big pay day are getting further and further away.

Dreamers.

icdg

I tend to agree.

Yes, there is a growing amount of people that will watch shows - mostly illegally, I may add - on the internet. One person I know watches most of her TV that way. But she will still go back to the "normal" TV for The X Factor every Saturday and Sunday night.

For most people there is still the distinction between the internet as a "sit forward at a desk" medium and TV as a "sit back on an armchair" medium. Also TV has the group experience factor - people converging around the TV for event programming - football matches, the aforementioned X Factor, soaps, the news. Wheras the internet - even watching TV programmes on the internet - is something mostly done alone.

For me I tend to limit my watching TV on the internet to "catch up" services like RTÉ Player and 4OD. Most of my TV watching is still done on front of the TV. Its got a bigger screen, a couch on front of it (instead of a chair with a hard back) and I can watch it with family and friends.

watty

Freddie59 wrote: »

It is not just about TV anymore. Services are converging. Lines are being blurred between types of technology. TV is beginning to trail a distant second to the Internet in the majority of homes.

That's only because there is a race to the bottom in content copying the worst of US TV.

If there was decent content the viewers watch. "Internet" is not Family or Communal entertainment. Real IPTV (that you can really watch as same quality as Broadcast) might be delivered by your ISP, but is unlikely to ever use the "Internet". The sums don't work.

Freddie59

STB wrote: »

In an apartment complex - the cable prewiring is for TV not broadband. It could be used for both. But the whole idea is that people have access to free tv OR pay TV and at least are given that choice. IPTV is not going to solve that as its ANOTHER PAY SERVICE.

People who talk of convergence really havent a breeze what they are talking about.

And this coming from someone who advocates that companies like UPC, etc should not be allowed to offer a more diverse, efficient, and cheaper service on their existing infrastructure?:D:D

Should radio waves have been kept for, ahem, radio? And not for TV, satellite, etc? I hope you're not head of strategic planning in any company!:D

You have your head buried in the past my friend. No two ways about it.

Here's a little snip from Nielsen:

http://www.atelier-us.com/facts-and-figures/article/nielson-finds-strong-internettv-convergence

Example of convergence:

Sony Playstation 3 (a games console, probably connected to a Cable Broadband service) connected to a device called PlayTV, which, when connected to a terrestrial feed, allows playback, recording etc of HDTV OF Freeview stations.

Virgin media's next generation set top boxes will use IPTV.

Internet-enabled TVs are now common.

Media players streaming to a TV are also here.

Convergence is happening all around us - NOW.

You cannot avoid it - it's technology evolving.

Dreamers indeed!:rolleyes:

DTH and terrestrial will serve their use until overtaken by technology - it is inevitable.

in the near future, wide availability of fibre is when this will occur.

Freddie59

watty wrote: »

That's only because there is a race to the bottom in content copying the worst of US TV.

If there was decent content the viewers watch. "Internet" is not Family or Communal entertainment. Real IPTV (that you can really watch as same quality as Broadcast) might be delivered by your ISP, but is unlikely to ever use the "Internet". The sums don't work.

Maybe, maybe not. What is a "family" by today's definition? DVRs have changed the face of broadcasting, with viewers skipping over ads in their droves.

As I said already, Internet-enabled TVs are widely available. The younger generation, in particular, have no allegiance to any particular platform (be it DTH, Cable, or internet). Quality is not necessarily their primary objective. Availability is. They will watch programmes, in low resolution, on iPhones, Desktop PCs, and the like.

They choose what suits them. End of story.

Convergence is most certainly upon us. This is the fact of the matter.

icdg

Freddie59 wrote: »

Quality is not necessarily their primary objective. Availability is. They will watch programmes, in low resolution, on iPhones, Desktop PCs, and the like.
.

Maybe. But give me the choice between watching a game on a dodgey internet connection, with the buffering, freezing, lack of ability to handle high speed images properly - and watching it on a proper television, maybe even in HD - I know which I'll choose. Even if it means going to the pub to watch it. (That's another different argument though).

Watching on the internet is fine for catch up (if I forget to record the programme) and for many people they'll do it to cheat and watch US programmes before they are broadcast here. But for sports and other event programming normal broadcast TV - whether that be by terrestrial, satellite, or cable/MMDS - is still the way to go.

Freddie59

icdg wrote: »

Maybe. But give me the choice between watching a game on a dodgey internet connection, with the buffering, freezing, lack of ability to handle high speed images properly - and watching it on a proper television, maybe even in HD - I know which I'll choose. Even if it means going to the pub to watch it. (That's another different argument though).

Watching on the internet is fine for catch up (if I forget to record the programme) and for many people they'll do it to cheat and watch US programmes before they are broadcast here. But for sports and other event programming normal broadcast TV - whether that be by terrestrial, satellite, or cable/MMDS - is still the way to go.

But that's changing, ICDG - and rapidly. You or I demand quality. The younger generation demand convenience. Thus even Sky's embracing of the Internet. It's unstoppable.

Another little bit of convergence:

http://www.broadbandtvnews.com/2010/10/15/first-pictures-of-upc-horizon-gateway/

STB

Freddie59 wrote: »

And this coming from someone who advocates that companies like UPC, etc should not be allowed to offer a more diverse, efficient, and cheaper service on their existing infrastructure?:D:D

If you had cared to read what I wrote I recommended that NO COMPLEX should allow any one company such as NTL/UPC to install their PAY services in preference to a PLATFORM that allows for MANY alternatives such as a FTA satellite OR where people want more than FTA satellite they then buy a proprietary Sky box. Two communities side by side, those who want the basic and those who want to subscribe to pay services. I am sure there may be plenty of apartment complexes where certain cable companies have a service monopoly for X no of years - such agreements may have been made by management companies who were in control of the developer themselves. Of course the legality such an occurence is another matter and one for the owners and members of management companies to pursue.

Freddie, there is nothing "cheaper" than Free. 9 out of the 10 most watched channels in Ireland are FREE to AIR. You do not need to PAY the Sky/UPCs of this world for TV preferences that most actually watch. We had this discussion before.

Freddie59 wrote: »

Should radio waves have been kept for, ahem, radio? And not for TV, satellite, etc? I hope you're not head of strategic planning in any company!:D

! And I hope you are not the head of strategic planning in an IPTV or Cable company (?) if you do not understand the general public's viewing behaviour and how people are changing towards affordable if not free solutions. Satellite and Digital Terrestrial form the backbone of the viewing public's armchair TV. IPTV is NOT NOW.

In terms of emerging platforms - Now is digital switch on. NOW is digital terrestrial and satellite delivery of PSBs ALL across Europe. Have you seen any European country rushing out to implement IPTV as their form of delivery ?

You have your head buried in the past my friend. No two ways about it.

Here's a little snip from Nielsen:

http://www.atelier-us.com/facts-and-figures/article/nielson-finds-strong-internettv-convergence

No I am very much grounded. Thanks though.

Example of convergence:

Sony Playstation 3 (a games console, probably connected to a Cable Broadband service) connected to a device called PlayTV, which, when connected to a terrestrial feed, allows playback, recording etc of HDTV OF Freeview stations.

Virgin media's next generation set top boxes will use IPTV.

Internet-enabled TVs are now common.

Media players streaming to a TV are also here.

Convergence is happening all around us - NOW.

You cannot avoid it - it's technology evolving.

Dreamers indeed!:rolleyes:

DTH and terrestrial will serve their use until overtaken by technology - it is inevitable.

in the near future, wide availability of fibre is when this will occur.

First off nobody buys a playstation to watch TV - IDTVs have tuners for a start!

Most Free to air COMBO boxes DO ALL THIS. Allow streaming over wifi, play media and display TV stations for FREE - I know I have about 7/8 different boxes.

Most MPEG4 TVs play Divx and MKV as the on board processor's profile for digital reception allows it Divx being an earlier part of the H264 pt10 higher profile.

Free to Air DTH sat and terrestrial will indeed serve us for a long time to come especially given we will be paying for the banks for many many years.

And by the way I am not missing the attempted tie in to PAY cable companies ALL the time. Nice try with the word cheaper and faster. At least I know where you are coming from !

And for people who have just joined us the word Digital is not exclusive to Sky or UPC. It has been used as a selling point for years to confuse customers. Its actually a format that is used by broadcasters and is free to air. Yes thats right FREE of CHARGE. (I just remembered how certain people didnt like the viewing figures that I posted here some time back that are published by Nielsen and used by Advertising companies for their clients that really questioned why people pay €25-€35 a month for stations that are free )

watty

IPTV costs about 10,000 more per viewer than Broadcast!

Cable IPTV /VOD boxes use BROADCAST for most of the content!

bigbluesky

sky

Freddie59

STB wrote: »

If you had cared to read what I wrote I recommended that NO COMPLEX should allow any one company such as NTL/UPC to install their PAY services in preference to a PLATFORM that allows for MANY alternatives such as a FTA satellite OR where people want more than FTA satellite they then buy a proprietary Sky box. Two communities side by side, those who want the basic and those who want to subscribe to pay services. I am sure there may be plenty of apartment complexes where certain cable companies have a service monopoly for X no of years - such agreements may have been made by management companies who were in control of the developer themselves. Of course the legality such an occurence is another matter and one for the owners and members of management companies to pursue.

Freddie, there is nothing "cheaper" than Free. 9 out of the 10 most watched channels in Ireland are FREE to AIR. You do not need to PAY the Sky/UPCs of this world for TV preferences that most actually watch. We had this discussion before.


! And I hope you are not the head of strategic planning in an IPTV or Cable company (?) if you do not understand the general public's viewing behaviour and how people are changing towards affordable if not free solutions. Satellite and Digital Terrestrial form the backbone of the viewing public's armchair TV. IPTV is NOT NOW.

In terms of emerging platforms - Now is digital switch on. NOW is digital terrestrial and satellite delivery of PSBs ALL across Europe. Have you seen any European country rushing out to implement IPTV as their form of delivery ?



No I am very much grounded. Thanks though.




First off nobody buys a playstation to watch TV - IDTVs have tuners for a start!

Most Free to air COMBO boxes DO ALL THIS. Allow streaming over wifi, play media and display TV stations for FREE - I know I have about 7/8 different boxes.

Most MPEG4 TVs play Divx and MKV as the on board processor's profile for digital reception allows it Divx being an earlier part of the H264 pt10 higher profile.

Free to Air DTH sat and terrestrial will indeed serve us for a long time to come especially given we will be paying for the banks for many many years.

And by the way I am not missing the attempted tie in to PAY cable companies ALL the time. Nice try with the word cheaper and faster. At least I know where you are coming from !

And for people who have just joined us the word Digital is not exclusive to Sky or UPC. It has been used as a selling point for years to confuse customers. Its actually a format that is used by broadcasters and is free to air. Yes thats right FREE of CHARGE. (I just remembered how certain people didnt like the viewing figures that I posted here some time back that are published by Nielsen and used by Advertising companies for their clients that really questioned why people pay €25-€35 a month for stations that are free )

Right! After ALL that huffing and puffing you still haven't answered two questions:

1. Do you still think ALL platforms (Sky, cable, etc) should be confined SOLELY to their initial design parameters?, i.e. UPC for TV only, Sky for TV only, Eircom for phones only? How could new inn ovations (a la VoIP) possibly develop? God help us!!!!!

2. Convergence is inevitable. It's everywhere. Is not the biggest example that thing you appear to hate so much - UPC? (or Sky - depending on what kind of rant you're giving). TV/Phone/Broadband over a single cable? Internet-enabled TVs, Tv on mobile phones, music on mobile phones, and it goes on. And this just scratches the surface.

STB - the world does not begin and end with TV anymore - a fact of life. You'll wake up to it someday!:D

Freddie59

STB wrote: »

I just remembered how certain people didnt like the viewing figures that I posted here some time back that are published by Nielsen and used by Advertising companies for their clients that really questioned why people pay €25-€35 a month for stations that are free[/url] )

Yawn. The world is changing as you sit still STB. Get over it!:D

watty

Get out more Freddie59 and see how many people have FTTH.
Also the sort of service you are talking about will be on UPC and is on Magnet Fibre. No-one else is going to get it anytime soon.

Nor is it going to replace Broadcast anytime soon, if ever. This is Cable Forum not After hours.

Kristopherus

Jebus, Freddie, Ease up. What you're rambling about is 10 years away.

Freddie59

In some people's eyes Kris. Technology can explode overnight - and that's what's going to happen. And Watty - which one of us needs to get out more?:)

We've had those on here rambling on and on about how companies should be restricted to their original technology, blah, blah:rolleyes:. The logic of this defies belief. And these are the same ones bawling about how great one particular segment - and that's what it is - is.

yes, for the foreseeable future, broadcast will hold sway. But who would have thought when, say, VoIP, or even the Internet, would progress as fast as they have.

They have exceeded expectations - and convergence is doing, and will do, the exact same. It is inevitable.

STB

Freddie

Hold on to your pants. Nobody was "rambling on and on about how companies should be restricted to their original technology, blah, blah".

What I said was that a management company of an apartment complex should not restrict their apartment owners and dwellers to a PAY ONLY television service no matter HOW it is delivered. IPTV which isnt NOW or TODAY most certainly wouldnt be free to air or a wise installation as a result of the forgoing.

For some reason you didnt like that I pointed towards wiring such a complex with a service that offers people the choice between Freesat and Sky rather than a cable company who might want exclusivity.

The same reason you didnt like me pointing out that 9 out of the TOP 10 stations that people are watching are free to air and do not need people paying their good money to UPCs of this world. In the coming months the ordinary joe soap who doesnt know any of this and doesnt frequent techie discussion boards may become better informed and make decisions about bills to cut including the likes of cable or pay satellite tv. That is now.

Why you went on the aggressive attack about IPTV and what sounded like a pro cable related discussion about it being cheaper than free makes me wonder whether you have allegiance towards one particular platform. Likewise trying badly to muddy the waters by throwing in convergence for confusion purposes or a selling point of IPTV is feck all to do with how PSBs will deliver TV. It also shows a lack of knowledge about off the shelf products that converge media recording and playback, wifi, satellite and digital terrestrial TV in one box without subscription.

The money that has been put into Digital Switch on terrestrially and via satellite by public service broadcasters all across Europe is no small investment and will shape how TV is delivered for many years to come. For the Irish consumer a mixture of FTA DTT from here and the heavily promoted and investment that is Freesat from the UK may be the most desirable for households given the economic climate right now. I would surmise you will see a big push independently in such retail products over the coming months, perhaps one box that does both.

IPTV may well be down the line maybe 10/15 years. Its going to be a struggle when there are subscription FREE platforms but that is the nature of business is it not.....and the best of luck with that No snake oil for me though, just right now.

icdg

Play the ball not the man please. You can argue against posts but please don't attack posters.

watty

Freddie59 wrote: »

In some people's eyes Kris. Technology can explode overnight - and that's what's going to happen. And Watty - which one of us needs to get out more?:)

No. Technology doesn't explode over night unless it's Broken

I posted earlier about a system I designed and tested for apartments that on two coax per outlet could deliver

• UPC Cable (TV, Broadband, phone and shortly IPTV/VOD)
• Digiweb Metro (Broadband + phone)
• Terrestrial: FM Radio, Dab, Analogue TV and Digital TV
• Satellite: Four Satellite positions with Sky & Freesat

I recommended it have also 2x Cat5e for FTTC, FTTH, VDSL2, ADSL and/or eircom/magnet services etc.

That gives 100% choice to the Apartment owner/Tenant.

Your posts are just ill-informed rant about the value of Broadband vs Broadcast. Broadband costs money to receive. Versions that have IPTV/VOD are much more expensive than Sky and always will be. UPC's IPTV/VOD next year will be a premium service. Over 85% of broadcast content can be viewed without subscription. It's 10,000 times at least cheaper to deliver than real IPTV/VOD.
Broadband and Broadcast are complimentary. Convergence is not about replacing Broadcast with IPTV. But Convergence is about TVs and setboxes with Real Broadcast and Broadband support, integrated in one GUI.

I've done development on a very Nice Motorola HD PVR that has Terrestrial or cable tuner and ethernet for Internet and dedicated IPTV/VOD integrated into the Broadcast TV EPG/Planner. That's convergence. But unlike Broadcast only, it will never be free. About 10% to 20% will never sign up to subscription TV, broadcast or Broadband/IPTV/VOD based.

Current "free" TV over internet is not true IPTV or true VOD and never will be. It's rubbish and a technical dead end. Magnet, Verizon and UPC have real IPTV/VOD that can deliver true HD. But it won't ever be free.

I get out and I know what real Families, teenagers, children and adults want. I design this stuff, so I know what is possible and what is wishful thinking. Broadband won't be free in foreseeable future. An Internet that supports reliable HD IPTV over public Internet may never exist. Do the sums on data transit costs and QOS. Real IPTV and VOD for foreseeable future is an addon product on your ISP's private network at a premium price using local video servers (BT vision servers at exchanges, Cable such as Virgin or UPC at the CMTS fibre fed cabinets).

Freddie59

watty wrote: »

I get out and I know what real Families, teenagers, children and adults want.

That makes two of us Watty. I have three adult children, some 30-odd nieces and nephews, and it is truly fascinating to see the diversity of their requirements. it is actually astonishing TBH. An insight into the future as it were.:)

Freddie59

STB wrote: »

What I said was that a management company of an apartment complex should not restrict their apartment owners and dwellers to a PAY ONLY television service no matter HOW it is delivered.

What you actually said (from your earlier post):

"Using cable for broadband over its traditional use for television is tail wagging the dog scenario. Thats not why apartments are prewired in the first place. They are prewired for TV. There are plenty of methods for broadband delivery".


Or, in plain language, restrict a platform to what it was originally designed to deliver. Madness. The platform that you continually castigate is (after Casey Cablevision in Dungarvan) is the provider of the fastest broadband in the state (barring FTTH).

Do you ACTUALLY advocate preventing such a company from developing such innovative technology? And an ACTUAL alternative, independent, phone network? i'm now paying less for my TV, Internet, and phone (together) than what I was paying for a phone a few short years ago. Thank God for convergence.

It's mind-blowing to see this even SUGGESTED in the first instance.

Regarding apartments, I know an apartment owner who had a FTA system installed for several years, and the apartment is now being supplied by (I presume) UPC with all their services.

The residents, according to him, are delighted with the change. Different strokes for different folks.

Myself? in my early 50s; used to watch a lot of Telly and use Ceefax, Aertel, etc. Not so much nowadays. I reckon i would use the Internet more. The introduction of DVRs has made things so easy regarding TV.

Don't get me wrong, the option of FTA will be good for some people. But there ain't half some shyte on it.

STB

Freddie59 wrote: »

What you actually said (from your earlier post):

"Using cable for broadband over its traditional use for television is tail wagging the dog scenario. Thats not why apartments are prewired in the first place. They are prewired for TV. There are plenty of methods for broadband delivery".


Or, in plain language, restrict a platform to what it was originally designed to deliver. Madness. The platform that you continually castigate is (after Casey Cablevision in Dungarvan) is the provider of the fastest broadband in the state (barring FTTH).

Do you ACTUALLY advocate preventing such a company from developing such innovative technology? And an ACTUAL alternative, independent, phone network? i'm now paying less for my TV, Internet, and phone (together) than what I was paying for a phone a few short years ago. Thank God for convergence.

It's mind-blowing to see this even SUGGESTED in the first instance.

Regarding apartments, I know an apartment owner who had a FTA system installed for several years, and the apartment is now being supplied by (I presume) UPC with all their services.

The residents, according to him, are delighted with the change. Different strokes for different folks.

Myself? in my early 50s; used to watch a lot of Telly and use Ceefax, Aertel, etc. Not so much nowadays. I reckon i would use the Internet more. The introduction of DVRs has made things so easy regarding TV.

Don't get me wrong, the option of FTA will be good for some people. But there ain't half some shyte on it.

You can talk about the advantages of bundled products all you like. Not allowing cable companies exclusive service contracts is little to do with preventing "a company from developing such innovative technology". It is consumer protection against having no choice but subscription TV. Allowing a Pay only operator in regardless of whether the offer threeplay fiveplay fiftyplay etc is a no no if it is to the detriment of not allowing free/non pay services.

I know plenty of apartment owners that have had problems with TV supply companies and the EXCLUSIVE contracts they will only work under (as does google). As do the Irish Competition Authority (TCA). Infact the TCA were so inundated with complaints they issued a guidance note on the matter not so long ago. I think you may understand the point I have being trying to get through if you read the following.

2009-08-14 Pay-TV Exclusivity Guidance Note.pdf (application/pdf Object)

This is the reason I said it is NOT a very good idea to allow any such private company into your complex. Cable companies will not go in unless it is worth their while after all! Certainly the experience in the US is the same and it is infact illegal for cable companies to have such exclusive contracts. Whilst Wattys suggestion for a system that does all is an ideal scenario its cost prohibitive, most management companies need to make a choice that offers choice and more importantly one that allows access to non pay services.

As regards FTA which is in your words "shyte" you are talking from a personal viewing point AS the general consensus does not seem to be that way with 9 out of the 10 most channels watched in Ireland are actually free to air channels (whether they are watched FTA or by the ill informed who pay for these FREE channels) . Hence for the majority their viewing habits are adequately served. Something UPC or Sky might not want to hear but good news for consumers many of whom do not realise that they need not subscribe to PAY companies. The forthcoming budget isnt going to bring any good news after all.

icdg

Can we maybe keep some of the heat that recent posts have generated down please. I'm reluctant to close a thread about an interesting topic but I want to see less of the attacking and stress I'm going to close this thread and people can continue it via PM.

This is the second warning I've given and it'll be the last.

Freddie59

icdg wrote: »

Can we maybe keep some of the heat that recent posts have generated down please. I'm reluctant to close a thread about an interesting topic but I want to see less of the attacking and stress I'm going to close this thread and people can continue it via PM.

This is the second warning I've given and it'll be the last.

Understood, ICDG.

STB, I've now asked you to clarify this statement on three occasions:

"Using cable for broadband over its traditional use for television is tail wagging the dog scenario. Thats not why apartments are prewired in the first place. They are prewired for TV. There are plenty of methods for broadband delivery".


You still have not.

Are you standing by the belief that platform owners/operators (whoever they may be) should be prevented from developing additional (cutting edge in some cases) services on their existing platforms.

If so, why?

This has nothing to do with exclusivity agreements.

I can't wait to hear the explanation.:)

And BTW I said 'half some shyte'. Yes there are a number of reasonable channels on it, but nothing that comes close to Sky/UPC. It is being promoted as something that can replace them. It cannot. Full stop.

icdg

Freddie59 wrote: »

Understood, ICDG.

Apparently not.

Freddie59, STB, you can continue this via PM if you want. Thread's gotten too heated at this stage. When things are calmer maybe someone can start a thread on convergence. Preferably not in this forum - Broadcasting might be a better bet.