NBS performance

Blankety

Hi, I am interested in some real world experience of the NBS.
My area is about to go live in the next few weeks so should I be looking forward to it?

I have used 3 BB for the last 2 years, the mast is 4KM away, initially I could get decent speeds but as more people took up 3 contracts I was demoted to a slower speed, probably because I was on the fringe of the cell. I have an E220 modem upgraded for 7.2MB with a solwise router, 5 bars reception.

As far as I am aware there are no new masts in the area, so how can 3 roll out NBS without masts??
Do NBS customers have a different SIM or APN?
How is the DL&UL speed guaranteed?

If these questions are answered before please pint me in the direction of the post, I search and while there is plenty of comment of the NBS, most is old and not specific about these items.

Thanks

watty

They have no licence for anything other than the one Mobile Phone Network.

They can't guarantee the NBS figures. See Why: http://www.radioway.info/comparewireless/
and this forum FAQ http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055442502

They rely on people not monitoring and not complaining.

See 3 & NBS articles here http://www.wattystuff.net/
and http://irelandoffline.org/

More on Broadband and Mobile here http://www.techtir.ie/comms

Blankety

Thanks Watty,
I will put the champagne back in the cupboard, your information is clear and concise, enough to dent the hopes of any NBS believer.
Being in a broadband blackspot in Co Monaghan, where the hills prevent decent wireless communication I had been hoping there was light at the end of the tunnel.

If the NBS was so bad surely people would be up in arms over it?
Is there anyone out there with real world experience of the NBS?

watty

People are. But ASAI, Dept of Comms and Wood stoves won't listen.

If people complain to 3 they eventually get Satellite terminal (800ms ping). But even there 3 was taking advantage of people's ignorance and supplying a cheapest retail pack (not meeting NBS spec) unless they complained more about Cap.

gn3dr

Hi
I can give you some real world feedback.

I have had 3 BB for a few years as well. Only really could use it when travelling because at my house I could get no signal inside the house and only barely 1 bar outside the house - not enough to get any more than dial up speeds outside and no way could I ever connect inside.

I am in an NBS area and the area went "live" around June this year. However they didn;t add any extra masts or boost teh signal because I could see from my standard 3 BB that the signal was exactly the same as before. SO basically NBS rollout here = we'll now provide boosters to this area if needed.

So I signed up for the NBS and surprise it didn't work - gave same results as the standard 3 BB
So they sent me out a repeater which has an antenna stuck to the inside of a window to boost the signal - that didn't work either.

So they then sent out a 3rd party company to install a booster on the roof which did manage to bring the signal inside - giving speeds of about 0.8Mb
That was in mid July. Because the install didn't meet the 1.Mb minimum they marked the install as a pass but as an open issue and asked me to monitor and record speeds for a while.
Speeds were running at 0.8 for a while but then dropped down more frequently in teh evening to approx 0.5Mb on average.

So I got back on to 3 again in Sept and complained. They said they would follow up on this. (During my many calls since Sept. one guy tried to tell me the agreement was for an average speed and not a minimum - so I quoted their own specs from their website back to them - but he was being a real d**k about it)
I know that satelite is the next step but I have been waiting for a response for the last 2 to 3 weeks at least. I have called repeatedly and every time I am fed the same line that it is "with the network team in Ireland". When I ask for a timeline by when they will get back to me they repeatedly refuse to give one.

It is extremely frustrating - basically the whole thing is just sitting there and I can get no information on what progress is or is not being made or when to expect an answer.

I need to find out where I can escalate to the next level as talking to the support line is a waste of time.

So overall not a great experience.

watty

It's a 1.2Mbps minimum

They do nothing unless you write letters to them, Analysys Mason and Dept.

Blankety

Thanks for your feedback, it is exactly as I suspected.
I am not very technical and I understood that traditional base stations (masts) were needed for this plan to work.
Until we see a mast in the area it would appear a pointless exercise signing up to NBS.

watty

Well, you'd get a free satellite dish install and VSAT worth nearly €600 and Satellite two way Internet at nearly 1/3rd price for the cap, i.e. same price and cap as NBS 3G.

You just have to prove that the 3G is either
1) Less than 1.2Mbps ever
2) More than 100ms latency (? maybe wrong)
3) It's not always on

gn3dr

watty wrote: »

Well, you'd get a free satellite dish install and VSAT worth nearly €600 and Satellite two way Internet at nearly 1/3rd price for the cap, i.e. same price and cap as NBS 3G.

You just have to prove that the 3G is either
1) Less than 1.2Mbps ever
2) More than 100ms latency (? maybe wrong)
3) It's not always on

Well that's the assumption anyway - it would be great if it worked that way - I'm not having any luck though in getting to the satelite stage despite being able to prove the above.

Blankety

Got the NBS, 2 guys came and installed a Solid repeater with an antenna on a suction pad to a bedroom window. I already had 5 bars reception so I think the repeater is pointless, plus they installed it on the second floor, the dongle is 8 meters away in the attic with 2 walls and a ceiling between....... Pointless.
I didn't see a range for the repeater on the solid website but I guess it a fairly low power device.
I am getting 1.3 Mb down, 0.35 Mb up and 110mS Ping. Not bad, Skype is very clear with no breakup the 2 times I used it.
There are 2 masts in the area 5.1 Km and 5.6 Km away 26 degrees between them. I moved the repeater to the attic and trained the antenna on the 5.1Km mast. So far so good.
Upgrading the router from Solwise G to SMC Barricade SMCWBR143GN. the solwise while good has not the range through concrete floors.
Next I will try to hook up VOIP SIP box to the router and see if I can make it work, latency in the past made communication impossible.

Sponge Bob

Is 'solid' the brandname of the repeater ??

Blankety

Yes, here it is from Korea http://www.st.co.kr/en/product/MC_6.html

Sponge Bob

Blankety wrote: »

Yes, here it is from Korea http://www.st.co.kr/en/product/MC_6.html

Looks like a cheap version of the Nextivity unit they used for this purpose.

Blankety

What is the typical operating range of this kind of repeater device?
Does it repeat (amplify) the standard GSM signal for voice traffic too?

watty

Very low range, or it damages adjoining sector or cell performance very badly.
It shouldn't as 3 has no GSM licence. 3's voice calls use 3G, except when they roam on vodafone.

They should be illegal (and maybe are) outside a RF enclosed space, Repeaters are not suitable for domestic use.

Only an operator can deploy them.

It's the wrong technology for NBS. But a Router with outdoor aerial (correct technology, while cheaper and much more effective) will not provide 3G voice phone coverage.

3 need phone users or they will go bust. See http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=68861516&postcount=6 Repeaters work for 3G Mobile phones. That's what they are for, except meant to be two part with one outdoor and other in Tunnel, Shopping mall (metal building), underground carpark, places that good outdoor RF signal can't get in/out. They are absolutely NOT meant for poor reception area and in an ordinary house. It suggests that 3 is clueless about RF Cell Engineering and totally desperate to improve 3G voice coverage and get more voice coverage.

The entire NBS roll out subsidises 3 having more 3G phone coverage where Meteor/eircom/eMobile, O2/Tesco and Vodafone don't.

It's not a Broadband network. It's Mobile Phone and all 3 has is a Mobile Phone Licence. They would need to charge maybe at least x5 more per Data sub to actually make money from Data.

Blankety

This repeater device is branded "3", but there is no sim card etc in the device, how does it differentiate between repeating the "3" signal and all the other operators signal?

For me it appears immaterial where the device is plugged in or not, I have 5 bars reception either way. would it be possible to train the repeater antenna on one base station and the E220 modem on the other to double my bandwidth? Just an idea. Or what would happen if you had multiple repeaters?

ToadVine

watty wrote: »

They should be illegal (and maybe are) outside a RF enclosed space, Repeaters are not suitable for domestic use.

They are absolutely NOT meant for poor reception area and in an ordinary house. It suggests that 3 is clueless about RF Cell Engineering and totally desperate to improve 3G voice coverage and get more voice coverage.

Why are they not suitable for indoor domestic use? Are there health issues????

Sponge Bob

Blankety wrote: »

This repeater device is branded "3", but there is no sim card etc in the device, how does it differentiate between repeating the "3" signal and all the other operators signal?

I'd say it is factory preconfigured to use the 3 frequencies only and you would be able to change those if you could access the configuration somehow.

watty

ToadVine wrote: »

Why are they not suitable for indoor domestic use? Are there health issues????

Because the WHOLE POINT of a repeater for Mobile is that it should be two parts.
1) Outdoor Receiver/Transmitter with a good receive signal

2) Indoor Receiver /Transmitter at low power.

The point is that the "indoor part" has to use one of the 3 channels, but a different one to the outdoor part. Each operator here only has three channels. If the indoor was really isolated from outdoors for RF, then you can actually use the same channel indoors and outside.

Most domestic houses are not like Tunnels, Shopping mall, Steel warehouse or underground car park. Unless you have screened glass (like maybe k-Glass) the RF leaks out the window. This can greatly reduce reception quality for someone else.

Also these simply are not designed for poor signal areas. The deployment of them in ordinary houses is actually degrading 3's network.

A "proper" solution of a ethernet + wiFi router and outdoor aerial would work far better, be cheaper and not degrade the network by wasting a channel. But doesn't work for Mobile Phone voice calls.

If the repeater helps at all, which in may do in a small number of cases, it works for ordinary 3G voice phone calls and reduces the likelihood that the call roams to Vodafone 2G(GSM) and thus saves 3 money.

There is NO health issue with transmitters or mobile phones unless the power is so high you get burns or frequency and power density high so you get a cataract peering into an aerial or waveguide. Neither is possible with Mobile phone systems.