Berlin marathon course controvery?

ThePiedPiper

I just read an interesting article in the LA Examiner, in which Khalid Khannouchi speculates that the Berlin marathon course is measured short and that there are question marks and doubts over whether the world records set there are legitimate.

http://www.examiner.com/marathon-in-national/khalid-khannouchi-on-the-chicago-marathon-ryan-hall-and-a-new-world-record

Surely, there can't be anything behind this. A marathon recognised as one of the Majors, with up on 40,000 runners annually and acredited a Gold Standard by the IAAF.

Is this sour grapes by Khannouchi that his old world record has been eclipsed by Target and Haile in Berlin?

I ran in Berlin the day Haile ran 2.03.59 and it actually nearly felt like I was running downhill, the course is so flat and fast. It was a perfect day, no wind, cool temp, completely flat and the one of the greatest distance runners of all time ran a world record. Where's the problem?

ecoli

RunForestRun wrote: »

I just read an interesting article in the LA Examiner, in which Khalid Khannouchi speculates that the Berlin marathon course is measured short and that there are question marks and doubts over whether the world records set there are legitimate.

http://www.examiner.com/marathon-in-national/khalid-khannouchi-on-the-chicago-marathon-ryan-hall-and-a-new-world-record

Surely, there can't be anything behind this. A marathon recognised as one of the Majors, with up on 40,000 runners annually and acredited a Gold Standard by the IAAF.

Is this sour grapes by Khannouchi that his old world record has been eclipsed by Target and Haile in Berlin?

I ran in Berlin the day Haile ran 2.03.59 and it actually nearly felt like I was running downhill, the course is so flat and fast. It was a perfect day, no wind, cool temp, completely flat and the one of the greatest distance runners of all time ran a world record. Where's the problem?

I smell sour grapes

Marathon Examiner: You mean one that they don't measure properly?

Khalid Khannouchi: (He laughs) Well you have to keep in mind that the people who run it in Chicago or London and broke the world-record they have more credentials than the people who ran it in Berlin so I think that’s the key. There’s still a lot of questions about the Berlin course believe it or not. A lot of experts still doubt if that’s a real course or not.

More credentials than Paul Tergat and Haile Gebrselassie yeah sure:rolleyes:

Peckham

It can't be true.

Are marathon courses remeasured from time to time even if the route doesn't change?

Not that I want to put my own PB in doubt, but of all the marathons I've run, my Garmin measured Berlin to be the shortest (26.59 miles, where I normally run above 26.7 miles in a marathon).

My explanation is that I'm getting more experienced at marathon running and paying more attention to the race line, so I hope there's not an alternative suggestion!

ecoli

Peckham wrote: »

It can't be true.

Are marathon courses remeasured from time to time even if the route doesn't change?

Not that I want to put my own PB in doubt, but of all the marathons I've run, my Garmin measured Berlin to be the shortest (26.59 miles, where I normally run above 26.7 miles in a marathon).

My explanation is that I'm getting more experienced at marathon running and paying more attention to the race line, so I hope there's not an alternative suggestion!

In order for a world record to be ratified the course must be remeasured by an certified measurer so there for in the after every WR the course was remeasured

ThePiedPiper

Peckham wrote: »

Not that I want to put my own PB in doubt, but of all the marathons I've run, my Garmin measured Berlin to be the shortest (26.59 miles, where I normally run above 26.7 miles in a marathon).

My explanation is that I'm getting more experienced at marathon running and paying more attention to the race line, so I hope there's not an alternative suggestion!

Peckham, my memory of racing in Berlin is that there were no tight turns anywhere on the course, meaning that you wouldn't have to go wide on tight corners to maintain speed or avoid congestion. That's probably why it measured slightly less than your other races. So, it's easier for more runners to stay closer to the race line in Berlin than most races.

TheRoadRunner

Peckham wrote: »

It can't be true.

Are marathon courses remeasured from time to time even if the route doesn't change?

Not that I want to put my own PB in doubt, but of all the marathons I've run, my Garmin measured Berlin to be the shortest (26.59 miles, where I normally run above 26.7 miles in a marathon).

My explanation is that I'm getting more experienced at marathon running and paying more attention to the race line, so I hope there's not an alternative suggestion!

to be safe I think you should add 2 minutes to whatever time you ran in Berlin

TFBubendorfer

RunForestRun wrote: »

I just read an interesting article in the LA Examiner, in which Khalid Khannouchi speculates that the Berlin marathon course is measured short and that there are question marks and doubts over whether the world records set there are legitimate.

Khannouchi went all the way from fantastic marathon runner to little bitter jealous old has-been in my estimation when I read those comments.

That's just pathetic. Nuff said.

myflipflops

I'm surprised he is openly saying he believes it is short. That just cannot be the case. It is a course designed to be fast though and it has been set up for world record attempts instead of being a competitve marathon.

Haile set a genuine record under all relevant criteria. To claim anything else is rubbish.

If he made a point that the guys running at the front of London or Chicago are better marathon runners and producing more impressive performances then he may have been on to something. Wanjiru is undoubtedly the best marathon runner in the world right now.

Brianderunner

In fairness to Khannouchi i met him a few weeks after he set his world record out in UL and he couldnt have been a nicer person, very accomodating, posed for photos and signed my spikes. It's hard to believe he came out with what he said.

Condo131

To all the posters after Ecoli: Read Ecoli's post again. He is absolutely correct.

If a world record is set, the course must be remeasured by an IAAF Grade A measurer. If the course is then measured as at least 26.21875 miles, plus the Short Course Protection Factor of 0.001, then the record stands. If it's short, then there is no record. The IAAF remeasures after ALL world records, even if there has been no change in the course since the IAAF themselves may have measured it.

mithril

Last year, my Garmin measured 42.98.
It was the longest marathon I ever ran. I ignored the straight line and switched from side to side continuously to try and get whatever shade was going from that horrible sun.

bart simpson

Condo131 wrote: »

If the course is then measured as at least 26.21875 miles, plus the Short Course Protection Factor of 0.001.

........

Gringo78

Condo131 wrote: »

If a world record is set, the course must be remeasured by an IAAF Grade A measurer. If the course is then measured as at least 26.21875 miles, plus the Short Course Protection Factor of 0.001, then the record stands. If it's short, then there is no record. The IAAF remeasures after ALL world records, even if there has been no change in the course since the IAAF themselves may have measured it.

Just for clarity Condo....if the re-measurement of the course shows 42.195km is that enough or must it measure the 0.001 SCPF extra also i.e SCPF is 42metres for the marathon, so if it measured say 42.195+35m will the record stand?

bart simpson

Gringo78 wrote: »

Just for clarity Condo....if the re-measurement of the course shows 42.195km is that enough or must it measure the 0.001 SCPF extra also i.e SCPF is 42metres for the marathon, so if it measured say 42.195+35m will the record stand?

oh, i thought the SCPF was 0.001 miles which is 1.6 meters, yeah 42 meters seems right

ilikespikes

Here's the response from the official Berlin Marathon course measurer:

http://www.examiner.com/marathon-in-national/is-the-berlin-marathon-course-short-not-according-to-an-expert-measurer-1

Condo131

Gringo78 wrote: »

Just for clarity Condo....if the re-measurement of the course shows 42.195km is that enough or must it measure the 0.001 SCPF extra also i.e SCPF is 42metres for the marathon, so if it measured say 42.195+35m will the record stand?

Nope! Gotta be the whole hog! The SCPF is not an optional add-on.