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What's on the infrastructure hit list to save money?

  • 11-10-2010 9:28am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 4,281 ✭✭✭ westtip


    Have we got a thread on this one yet - Has an unpalatable list been produced yet for the electorate to ponder over - I don't recall any specifics - the rejig of the NDP in July was a bit vague and when mention was made of certain transport projects being hit out of the ring, Dempsey came on to say oh no they will happen.

    So whats actually definitely a non starter now? I won't influence the thread with my short list - but what do ye all think will get the definite chop
    Tagged:


Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,549 Judgement Day


    Metro North and the Inter-connector hopefully but more likely it will be the Nenagh branch, Limerick Jn/Waterford and phase .2. of the WRC. :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,281 ✭✭✭ westtip


    JD agree with you on all points - I think having read the N17/18 thread on the roads section that the M17/18 Gort to Tuam is uner serious threat as well.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭ LeinsterDub


    Metro North and the Inter-connector hopefully but more likely it will be the Nenagh branch, Limerick Jn/Waterford and phase .2. of the WRC. :D
    Cripple the DART expansion and the pull the plug on project with cost benifit of 2:1 . Great idea.


  • Registered Users Posts: 20,511 ✭✭✭✭ FreudianSlippers


    Why cut anything? Infrastructure is proven historically to create more jobs than any other method during recession. Saving our money isn't going to help anyone. Build everything and get people back to work.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,093 ✭✭✭ Amtmann


    OisinT wrote: »
    Why cut anything? Infrastructure is proven historically to create more jobs than any other method during recession. Saving our money isn't going to help anyone. Build everything and get people back to work.

    I have to agree. It might sound trite, but hell: what is 2.5 billion for a Metro or 700 million for an M20 when we are pumping tens and tens of billions into bad banks "to restore them to greatness", according to our Minister for Finance. I mean come on. Look what we get in return for capital investment. People will still be using Terminal 2 in 2090, when Anglo will warrant no more than a few paragraphs in Chapter One of the History of Ireland in the Twenty-First Century when it's written. Of course we can't build everything now, and we can't build it as fast as we'd like, but we cannot axe the most beneficial, revolutionary projects currently on the table.

    I say re-evaluate the roads programme and trim the fat off that (as I've outlined here), and dump the Western Rail Corridor. Stagger delivery of key projects. Get our water treatment and delivery infrastructure up to speed and get some engineers and plumbers off the dole.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,278 ✭✭✭ dowlingm


    The question isn't whether the projects are pulled by government, it's whether they are pulled by their financial consortia given the hit Ireland's credit rating is taking.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,281 ✭✭✭ westtip


    dowlingm wrote: »
    The question isn't whether the projects are pulled by government, it's whether they are pulled by their financial consortia given the hit Ireland's credit rating is taking.

    Dowling indeed my question in the OP is simply what do we all think is going to get the chop, Not what are the arguments for each and every case - every one of the projects has its own thread to discuss merits of.

    From a perspective of living in the West of ireland - I don't think the WRC north of Athenry will happen - the merits or not of this project have been well discussed! and My views are pretty well known on it!

    Tragically, I think the M17/18 is now under serious threat, but see the thread on this one.

    I think the school buildings projects will be slowed down considerably

    The N26 Foxford bypass - already slowed down by ABP is now all but dead.

    Any further work on the N15 and N16 will be put on an indefinite hold as will the N17 around Tubercurry - The NRA has already labelled the N16 project in Leitrim with the word "suspended" and other projects like the N17 aroun tubercurry they have removed the link.

    I think the Roads project is going to be decimated - in fact I think the Greens are going to use this current situation as their gleeful excuse to leave us with with a 19th century dangerous road network in many parts of the country.


  • Registered Users Posts: 20,511 ✭✭✭✭ FreudianSlippers


    Furet wrote: »
    I have to agree. It might sound trite, but hell: what is 2.5 billion for a Metro or 700 million for an M20 when we are pumping tens and tens of billions into bad banks "to restore them to greatness", according to our Minister for Finance. I mean come on. Look what we get in return for capital investment. People will still be using Terminal 2 in 2090, when Anglo will warrant no more than a few paragraphs in Chapter One of the History of Ireland in the Twenty-First Century when it's written. Of course we can't build everything now, and we can't build it as fast as we'd like, but we cannot axe the most beneficial, revolutionary projects currently on the table.

    I say re-evaluate the roads programme and trim the fat off that (as I've outlined here), and dump the Western Rail Corridor. Stagger delivery of key projects. Get our water treatment and delivery infrastructure up to speed and get some engineers and plumbers off the dole.
    I agree, plus the formula is pretty simple in my mind:

    Build the projects on the books = jobs in construction + jobs in business + jobs in areas with stops.

    The more jobs we create, the more money that circulates through other businesses and we in turn get more jobs. When money starts circulating again it ups VAT returns and the banks make money too.

    We should break ground tomorrow on infrastructure projects and fix this mess.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,468 BluntGuy


    MN might well get the chop. I have a sneaking suspicion, the "big" decision as to whether to commit fully to the project is being put off. ABP's further delay has pushed RPA's timescale by 3-4 months, putting the "financial close" phase of their plan firmly into 2012, just in time possibly for a new government to have to make that choice.

    Even if money is found for the enabling works to get underway next year as planned, (which I'm sure will be emphasized as the "beginning"), it still might not be safe.

    If MN gets the chop it's pretty much "bye" to the Dart Underground as well.

    It's impossible to predict accurately what might and might not go ahead. All I know is the government have promised loads, even when we were flush with cash and delivered nothing. Wasn't the first phase of "Metro West" meant to be opening this year according to the original T21? Oh, and Metro North was opening in 2013. They won't even have started tunnelling by then... and that's IF everything goes according to plan!

    With M17/M18 scheme a little shaky, the hopes for the M20 are shrinking. And it looks like a sizeable chunk of the NRA's budget is now going towards paying back the massive interest payments for those PPPs we were told were so great. I think Newlands might just about scrape through and possibly the SRR's as they're fairly cheap and good politically.

    If the government were serious about capital investment, they would've explicitly spelt out their infrastructure plan and given concrete timescales, not just put a lean version of the NDP in the microwave and call it a day.


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